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Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by SweetnessandLight, Aug 10, 2009.
What Alanzo meant to say was...
That aughtta flatten his buttons!
All you need is Love!
Originally Posted by CarmeloOrchards
Auditing, doing repairs, assessment lists, and L & N, has more to do with the auditor being there, than if he can read a meter.
Warning: I get metaphysical.
If the auditor doesn't love the PC, the PC is in trouble no matter how well reads are read.
If "the auditor" is rote and mechanical, it really doesn't get anyone anywhere. The session may end in EP, but it is a facade.
PCs have knowingness. They know when someone is on their team, or just phoning it in.
BTW: this thread is the best thing going on the internet at the moment. "
Reply by MysterySandwich:
"Now that's profound.
And so right.
Brings to mind so many instances in sessions-both good and bad….and the positively miraculous…...
I believe the absenting of love in the equation mechanized and parodied the process of auditing and reduced concepts like ”100% Standard Tech” and “in ARC”, etc, to the mindless, annoying jingoisms they became.
Compassion was not deemed a virtue. Rather, it was frowned upon, as a weakness (never sympathize with a preclear and all that).
And yet the old man said somewhere (a paraphrase here) that you could tell those who would make the best auditors. They were simply those people to whom, for as long as they could remember, others came to to cry on their shoulders.
The good auditors then, instinctively know how to audit. And why not? They have been doing it all their lives. They are safe, they understand, and they care. They love.
Metaphysical or not, as you say, others know this.
So thank you for pointing this out so clearly and succinctly. It needs to be said."
Comment by me (Sweetness): The same is true of all Counsellors, no matter their training or methodolgy. Love is the healing force at work in all relationships.
Ted on "Questions for OTs" on 11-21-09
Ted made a tremendous comment today, 11-21-09 on the thread, "Questions for OTs". He said, "As it turns out, Ron takes all the credit when things go right. You take the blame when things are less than right."
That is a stupendous comment. Scientology used to be pushed as the only game in the Universe where everyone wins. With rules such as the above one in Ted's quote, it slants it so that only Ron always wins the game.
Two Key Aspects- Love and Caring
A Great Post from our dear Alan Walter:
Group Ho'Opononono - XSO & ESMB
One of the wonderful aspects of Ho'Oponopono or Hoo' Pono Pono is that it only requires two key aspects - that of Love and Caring.
You do not have to believe in anything else.
As a matter of fact you strip away false beliefs.
A few years ago Mick Wenlock loved and cared enough for his fellow ex-sea-org friends and their friends to start a moderated e-mail group.
The ex-SO people began to connect - they began to tell their stories - they told other ex-SO people about it - it is a wonderful loving caring list.
Exactly 420 days ago Emma also began a similar list - also containing love and care.
And most of us know what has happened since ESMB began.
As the release of pent up charge and healing began to occur a strange thing also began to occur in Scio - it began to lose its power to intimidate, to shut people up.
More and more people began to speak up and tell their stories across the world - media entities began to to listen and report these stories.
When you tell your story, you have to get out of what you have been sitting in for years in order to view it - that is incredibly therapeutic
As more and more people broke their silence and publicly wrote their stories.....aided and abetted by the strange antics of Tom Cruise - more and more people began to take notice - suddenly from out of left field came a few thousand other voices who began to investigate Scio - the Anons.
A movement began to come into being with XSO first and then ESMB to reconnect with each other - to reconnect families - to reconnect to old friends.
There were many others earlier who fought lone battles against the tyranny of Scio and OSA - those voices are now also being heard around the world.
XSO is a beautifully run group - extremely sane, very loving and very caring of each other.
ESMB is gaining that same aura.
PS: I hope Mick and Emma will add their history to this of what led them to take their positions and what they went through to bring their loving and caring creations into existence.
The truth is what it is - not what you want it to be.
Not to be a bizarre tenant...
"Any belief system that needs to be 'global' is not one I need. I've worked long and hard in my life not to have bizarre tenants or even be one too.The problem here is a malicious and criminal Cult that has been pro-actively and deliberately corrupting the otherwise imperfect social order for 50+ years.
First stop the crime, then clean up the shit. Whether people then agree on some kinds of global tenets is their problem. I can pretty much assure you I'm not interested in singing kumbaya with 6.78 billion people.
This is so true!
"I have learned that love can stand independant of Affinity Reality and or communication. Deciding to do the right thing for the benfit of another is a perfect example of this. I don't think Hubbard really ever experienced anything truly spiritual."
By Good Twin
You can find the entire post here: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=341059&postcount=7
By Good Twin:
Don't let the Hubbard mind trap with all the formulas and schematics for explaining all of life get in the way of you trusting your own self. Hubbards little mathematical description of human interaction put limits on you that are just another of the invisible shackles of the cult.
Roger B on what really works in auditing, (or any helping relationship)
"Nice comments begun by Carmelo and contributed to by others on the subject of love.
It is one of the positive attributes of "Theta" or we spiritual Beings I mentioned several times in my presentation.
When a Being is fully, truly present; there with you in session, you experience their presence; the quality of their love, awareness, truth, honor, knowledge, co-creation, and many other of the virtues and qualities that naturally belong is a relationship of correctly aligned Beings.
We each, of course, have our own particular perception of importance as to which of the qualities or attributes is most vital, worthwhile, worthy or otherwise wanted! And it is worthwhile for each to determine for themselves which of the basic qualities or attributes of spirit (Theta or the Being) is the most valuable to or wanted by you. It will afford some nice alignment of your pursuits in life and also of your case and how it has stacked up for you.
Of course, such a vital item of pursuit in your games of life is likely to be the thing upon which you might build up "the most" charge; so it is also wise to be alert to the dichotomous, negative side of things that really piss you off and upset you . . . . they are likely to be the reverse or inverse of your most valued and most wanted
Hubbard missed on this one. In 8-8008, he wrote of the "dichotomies" but really missed the real deal.
We are really talking qualities of spirit here, and these are the elements of existence which, when we began our games so, so long ago we sought to exchange with others for they are so valuable.
Ponder on it.
It is why I mentioned in my presentation that these "positives" . . . the attributes that belong at the highest level of spiritual existence . . . need be addressed and processed directly!
This is the stuff of you that is so valuable. They are the key to your powers, indeed they are your powers, and when used correctly and honorably they empower others as well as the game of existence you are in."
I love, admire and respect RVY's writings!
The essay that you are speaking of was by Robert Vaughn Young, aka Vaughn Young, aka RVY, a mainstay of the GO. He died of the big C in 2003 (I think).
Here is the link:
this is the text (but go to the url for more cogent comments
Toward a new model of "cult control"
by Robert Vaughn Young
From: email@example.com (Robert Vaughn Young)
Subject: Toward a new model of "cult control" by Robert Vaughn Young
Date: 23 Feb 2000 00:23:38 GMT
Monday, February 21, 2000
TOWARDS A NEW MODEL OF "CULT CONTROL"
© By Robert Vaughn Young
(Preface: I am making this long post to ARS because I am stepping away from this work and I want to get it into the hands of people who study or are concerned with this issue. I do not know who has taken this view. It is merely my perspective and opinion and can certainly prompt debate, not to mention screams of horror from any cult. I just want it to be seriously considered by the professionals who deal with this. Others should be interviewed on it and the model developed and tested. Nor do I think it is the only model. I merely think it might help some who could not be helped before. I only ask that someone provide a copy of this to whoever might be interested in the issue of "cult control.")
After I left Scientology in 1989 with 21 years in the cult, the hardest question people posed to me was why I stayed in it so long if I knew it was such an abusive system. I didn't have an answer that satisfied me, let alone anyone else. I think I've come up with a reply and a model. It at least satisfies me today.
My own background and basic interests also demanded an answer to that question. I had a pursued and obtained a BA in philosophy (from what was then known as San Francisco State College) because of a strong interest in what we called philosophy of behavior/mind/psychology. (The choice often depended on the school, as well as the emphasis within the field.)
I was then accepted into the PhD program at the University of California at Davis. I picked them because they had a strong program in this new, growing field of study. (Twenty years later I discovered that the field of "cognitive science" had emerged with entire departments devoted to it and PhDs being granted at some universities. Cognitive Science is a blend of philosophy, psychology and some computer science, namely in the area of AI or artificial intelligence, which was exactly what I was looking for. AI was posing new philosophical problems but back in the late 1960s, departments had yet to integrate them as full subjects.)
It was this interest of mine that prompted me to read Hubbard. I was intrigued with elements of his philosophy, namely some of the epistemological and cosmological presentations. Scientology's Dept 20/RTC and their attorneys (especially in my last deposition in Tampa a couple of weeks ago) can't grasp this. When they ask why I got into Scientology, they make all sorts of assumptions, from "personal improvement" to my wanting to join a religion. No, I say, trying to explain, but it never sticks. For an "applied religious philosophy" they haven't a clue what "philosophy" even means, let alone "religious philosophy." (They think that a "religious philosophy" is a religion. Get a clue!) But then, Hubbard didn't understand it either, as I finally came to learn.
Which brings it back to the issue of why I stayed. There was one incident that happened in 1988 that I kept as my litmus test. I knew if I could understand it, I could understand it all.
I was on the Rehabilitation Project Force (RPF) at "Golden Era Studios" at Gilman Hot Springs CA. (For the sake of brevity, let's skip why I was there and the way it works and the like and just cut to the chase. Besides, it's irrelevant to the point I'm making and I think I've written about it before.) My situation had deteriorated to the point that I was afraid I was either going to go crazy on the RPF or die so I escaped one night. They found me at a motel in nearby Hemet and wanted to talk. I said okay and the next thing I knew, I agreed to return to the "program" and to finish the RPF. I did and was on it another 5-6 months (total 16 months) before "graduating."
Here is my litmus test. More than why did I stay in here, why did I return if I felt it was so abusive that I escaped? And here's the kicker: they TALKED me back in. They didn't lay a hand on me. By just talking with me, they convinced me to give up what I had planned for weeks and executed. They convinced me to go back to the very condition that I feared would kill me. Why did I do it?
And this must be remembered: I can look back (11 years after fleeing) and see that I was right to escape the RPF and wrong to return. So why did I return and then stay?
Here's where the "mind control" advocates might argue their point. After all, isn't this what "mind control" is all about where I was "controlled" to do something that was inherently against my will?
Or the "brainwashing" school might give their explanation from that perspective. After 21 years in the cult, they might say, I was "conditioned" and like some "Manchurian Candidate" or Pavlovian dog, someone merely rang some bell or pushed a button and I complied.
I never bought either model. As I tried to understand, I read some articles by "experts" on the subject of "cult control" but they just didn't fit. It was like putting on an expensive but oversized coat that hung off the fingertips and draped across me like a double-breasted. Yeah, it was a "coat" and the "label" was impressive but ---
I wondered if it was me. Maybe I resented the idea that I had been "brainwashed" or there was "mind control" and so that was why I didn't like the theories. I found myself in an amusing situation where I was agreeing with the cult that the models didn't work but there was still SOMEthing, some point of control. Why was I talked back into a situation that I detested and that I could look back on years later and agree, yes, something else was at work. There WAS some sort of "control" but "mind control"? It didn't work.
It wasn't until my first trip to Wellspring that I found the model that worked for me. It had nothing to do with them. It was some books that were on their shelves that I was reading in my spare time that let me realize the model that worked for me: the battered or abused woman. The idea didn't take hold fully then. It took further reading (including some on the Web) some months later to bring it together.
Various "experts" can (and do) argue if "mind control" or "brainwashing" really exists or if we are just talking about various forms of "influence" that is found in everything from advertising to conversations. But they can't argue with the fact that there are battered/abused women who stay in abusive situations and there are women who flee and when found by the husband are talked BACK into the very relationship they tried to escape and then it repeats.
Until a very few years ago, our society didn't even ADMIT to these women, let alone try to help them or try to understand the phenomenon. Being the male-dominated society we are, it was even legal in many states for a husband to hit his wife, and may still be. If a woman went to the police, they simply called the husband. But now women are stepping forward and it isn't easy. It is like being a rape victim and speaking out. It takes courage and it took some women to force this issue on our (American) male-dominated society and MAKE it an issue. That is why it is a new issue. It is not that it hasn't existed. It has undoubtedly existed for as long as there have been men and women but - like civil rights and other issues - it took some "victims" FORCING the issue before anyone even admitted that it existed.
The first time I saw the parallel between my own experiences in the cult of Scientology and battered women was when I was reading "Captive Hearts, Captive Minds," which is an
Ladybird helps you keep it in your pants!
"Ghostie, on OTVII you find out you mocked up all your BTs so what is the point of discussing them?
Here are a few more zingers from mankinds greatest jester:
The EP of Clear: I mocked up my own reactive mind. (Of course you wouldn't have known you had one if the old joker hadn't made up all those funnies about engrams, past lives, AAs and basic basic, etc.)
The EP of OT7: I mocked up my own BTs. ( You wouldn't have imagined those either without his hilarious rendition of the Sci Fi xenu story, which he told with a straight face, only laughing behind your back all the way to the bank.)
And of course the ever popular "Highest Holy Level" OT8, where you find out you mocked it all up. (But are still kept on the edge of your seat by the buffoonery of being assured that "History of Man" holds the TRUE keys to the universe.)
Keep it in your pants, please (your WALLET, sheesh!) for this newest voyage of discovery into the outer limits of mans gullibility.
This truly is an epic journey "L. Reel-em-in Huckster has devised for his enjoyment at your expense.
So for those of you who still don't get the joke, here are a couple of Ladybirds favorite rundowns: (at a cost considerably less than $360,000.00)
The EP of scientology is: I mocked up my own enemies.
The EP of SP is: I am now free from scientology and can clearly see reality."
"This thread was a life-changing experience for me. I blew charge and blew chunks, alternating between hysterical laughter & projectile vomiting. my space feels calm."
Are you related to Alanzo?
Reincarnation: "you will find what you leave"
Talking about LRH and his "stable datum" theory ...
Just saw your post...even after your question, my space still feels calm.