GROSS! Off Policy

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by Clay Pigeon, May 10, 2018.

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  1. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Patron Meritorious

    I was just reading the other day somewhere on this board where someone left the church and had to resort to legal action to get funds on account returned which got the $$$ back but precipitated an SP Declare

    Policy on refunds is you have 90 days after completion of a service to get a full refund. The ONLY penalty is you may not again purchase services.

    There is NO penalty for getting a refund of money on account

    Any one else like to come up with Gross Off Policy?

    IMHO far more evil is done by off policy actions than by the application of questionable policy

    Like with Phenomenon...

    If I recall correctly the last straw for her with CoS came when they wouldn't pay her after calling her in to do some auditing and this snowballed into disconnection from her offspring
     
  2. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    Read some more on this board. We have stories of forced abortion. People being forcibly held in slavery. Fair gaming. Etc, etc.

    Where have you been?
     
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  3. uncover

    uncover Silver Meritorious Patron

    A refund of "money on account" does not exist:
    What you are talking about is called a REPAYMENT:
    .
    I would say that the use uf wrong terms is really a GROSS! outpoint and I will have to report this for cramming. In the meantime you can already start your Clay Pigeon Demo: "The difference between a 'refund' and a 'repayment' ". :cool:

    .
    .
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2018
  4. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Patron Meritorious

    For the past 37 years I've been at a Tupperware party in Nassau County, Long Island. I always thought that was pretty obvious.

    But I'm looking for stories directly in relation to violations of specific policies.

    YES!!!

    FORCED ABORTION!!!

    DOES ANYBODY EVER READ WHAT I ACTUALLY WRITE HERE F'CRISSAKES?!?!?

    I'm proposing an Amendment to The Constitution of the United States of America.

    I have written a book.

    The Amendment gives comprehensive address to the legal question of the medical termination of pregnancy

    The Laura DeCrescenzo case figures prominently in the book

    This is a serious difficulty for CoS

    Theoretically the people of ESMB should be enthusiastically promoting this book

    BECAUSE!!!

    Most Americans have scant interest in the controversies around Scientology

    This book should be of vast interest to the American people

    BUT...

    ESMBers think birdie needs to be ignored at all times by all people

    WAKE UP AND SMELL THE MOCHA DOUBLE LATTE!!!

    This book is of serious interests to ll good citizens and especially so to critics of CoS
     
  5. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Patron Meritorious

    I didn't know that

    Of course it makes very good semantic sense.

    Now then...

    Is there any sort of policy concerning repayment?


    p.s. I don't have any clay. Can I use pigeon guano?
     
  6. uncover

    uncover Silver Meritorious Patron

    Of course, the reference for this policy is already mentioned above: HCO PL 9 Nov 74. But I spot that you are obviously a hardcore resistive case therefore I will have to report you to ethics too. :cool:

    To avoid any further dev-t Q+A, here is the quoted policy in full (from OEC Vol 7):

    HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
    Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex
    HCO POLICY LETTER OF 9 NOVEMBER 1974R
    REVISED 2 OCTOBER 1980

    Important
    Urgent

    REFUNDS AND REPAYMENTS

    Refs:
    (And very important for every Reg and ED, HES and HAS to
    know these as ignorance of them can cost enormous sums.)
    HCO PL 23 May 69 DIANETIC CONTRACT
    RCO PL 23 Oct. 63 REFUND POLICY
    RCO PL 1 Aug. 66 REFUND ADDITION
    HCO PL 23 May 65 II REBATES

    A REFUND is a return of money after service.

    A REPAYMENT is a return of money without the service being taken.

    BOTH ARE NOW COVERED BY “REFUND POLICY” AND ARE GOVERNED BY THE POLICY LETTERS ABOVE.

    All refund and repayment policy also applies to training.

    WARNING

    It is very important to acquaint the person asking for refund or repayment with the conditions of receiving his money.
    These are given in the policy letters above. Usually a C/S 53 (latest revision) or Green Form and handling done by a person who can make list items read (what it takes is given on the new Green Form) cures the customer impulse to run.


    So if these are done before a refund or repayment is given usually there is no refund or repayment.
    Where your tech is out (verbal tech, lousy TRs, overloaded or untrained C/S) you can expect refunds. Which is silly because it’s all in the HCOBs.


    Where you don’t have a Director of Tech Services (or D of P) calling people in for service when paid or you don’t have auditors or good Supervisors or materials, you can expect repayments. Which is silly because the majority of staff want to be tech trained people!

    But no matter which, when you do give refunds or repayments you do it on policy. And the policy is above and when understood and followed you will benefit greatly.

    Misunderstood words, withholds, no service are the cause of all your refunds and repayments.

    But until you get the org and its tech people to fly right you’ll have the problem of refunds and repayments eating up major quantities of GI so you better handle it very on-policy.

    RECOURSE

    It happens that when a person has taken a refund or repayment he often sourly regrets it. The door has been closed in his face and his dream of coming right has been ended.

    If an ARC Break Reg were to see such people and an auditor (who can make lists read and has smooth TRs) were to do a C/S 53 (latest revision) and possibly a Green Form, the person would sign up again.

    Bur the following policy is laid down in all such cases. They must sign a waiver which will be provided by the HCO of the org.

    HCO Area Secretaries should ensure that the waiver is run off as a form for org use and copies sent to local missions.
    Once signed, a copy is kept in Val Docs AND A NOTATION OF IT IS MADE ON ANY INVOICE WITH DATE.


    Any other legal waivers ordinarily required must also be signed again.

    In this way you can open the door when it has been solidly closed.

    L. RON HUBBARD
    Founder
    Assisted by
    AVC Int
    .
    .
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2018
  7. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Patron Meritorious

    coooooooool...

    I didn't know that.

    And it SUCKS!!!

    Same policy for repayment sucks

    Still it shouldn't result in Declare
     
  8. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster


    Read the Suppressive Acts policy

    http://suppressiveperson.org/1965/1...uppression-of-scientology-and-scientologists/

    Relevant section below. Asking for either refund or repayment gets you declared:

    Demanding the return of any or all fees paid for standard training or processing actually received or received in part and still available but undelivered only because of departure of the person demanding (the fees must be refunded but this policy applies).
     
  9. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Patron Meritorious

    thanx ET

    WOW!!!

    Has Scientology ever had any students who WEREN'T Declare bait?

    Anyway, back at FCDC I never saw a Declare issued for the relatively few public PC's who asked for their money back.

    And, so far as I know none one ever requested a refund for training.

    Really harsh Ethics were applied only on the Apollo and very stern ethics didn't go past the AO's and SH's

    And Scn "Ethics" really does need quotation marks...
     
  10. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    The "declare for asking for refund" wasn't in the 1965 version of the policy. The one I quoted was the 1991 version. I wasn't interested enough to look for and review versions to see exactly when that paragraph crept in.
     
  11. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Patron Meritorious

    cooooooooool...

    Yeah Scientology in general seems to have a kinder gentler thing until LRH goes to sea

    The version of the Auditor's Code then current had the item

    "I will not accept for processing anyone I do not believe I can help"

    Hmmm...

    I don't think that's word for word

    But that clause disappeared in, I think 1968
     
  12. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    It makes sense that you don't try harsh ethics on people who are not that committed. The non-serious Scientologist would just give the EO the finger and walk away, telling all his friends "these guys are crazy".
     
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  13. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Patron Meritorious

    Yeah...

    The devil really don't have that many tricks but one of them is the "boil the frog in water" use of gradients
     
  14. George Layton

    George Layton Silver Meritorious Patron

    "A Piece Of Blue Sky", There I promoted it. (That was the book you were talking about right?)
     
  15. Fred Basset

    Fred Basset Patron

    I can think of some extreme departures from policy.

    These departures are so big that it seems too obvious to mention. I will look like a fool as it seems I've not seen it mentioned by anyone anywere before.

    A hint is : to do with recruiting SeaOrg.

    Ref: RJ67.
     
  16. Koot

    Koot Patron with Honors

    Revised 1991 !!!!!!!!!!!! That aint Scientology
     
  17. pineapple

    pineapple Patron Meritorious

    So when's the cutoff, then? 1986? 1982? 1965? 1952? Earlier than 1952? Later than 1952? ...:waiting:
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
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  18. uncover

    uncover Silver Meritorious Patron

    Personally I am very careful with everything after Feb 1980, when Hubbard went into permanent seclusion. No one really knows (except the author) if Hubbard has written or seen something or not.
    .
    .
     
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  19. phenomanon

    phenomanon Gold Meritorious Patron

    You are mistaken. The "last straw" for me was when the AOLA MAA asked me to dose an OT3 PC with Thorazine.
    " Not my monkeys, not my circus". I was outta there in a flash, and wrote up my Resignation letter the next day.
    Talk about "off policy"!!! Doping PC s was not what I signed up for.
     
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  20. phenomanon

    phenomanon Gold Meritorious Patron

    " Declare" doesn't mean shit! If you are willing to grovel and beg and kiss some Lamer's ass, AND have several thousands of dollars, you can
    renew your membership.
    It is a control mechanism among the many untold others that cos has in their playbook.
     

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