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Hello From Oregon

I'm not an ex-scn, but I have read virtually every major critical work on the Church, consumed a lot of video/interview material, and read a fair number of Hubbard's writings. I'm not a protestor, nor an Anon, nor an "anti-Scientology activist".

I find the Scientology culture fascinating though not something I plan to take up personally. I studied comparative religion in college so from that perspective, Scientology is an interesting case study.

Really just here because I'm curious.
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
I'm not an ex-scn, but I have read virtually every major critical work on the Church, consumed a lot of video/interview material, and read a fair number of Hubbard's writings. I'm not a protestor, nor an Anon, nor an "anti-Scientology activist".

I find the Scientology culture fascinating though not something I plan to take up personally. I studied comparative religion in college so from that perspective, Scientology is an interesting case study.

Really just here because I'm curious.

Hi survivalist and welcome to the board. It's surprising to read that you found scientology an interesting case study, since it is not a religion at all except for the purposes of tax evasion.

What do you make of the 'Xenu' narrative, one of the most closely-guarded secrets of scientology?
 

Leland

Crusader
Hello

Its interesting that the educated see us as so fucked up......that they "study" us! :biggrin:
 
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Churchill

Gold Meritorious Patron
Hi survivalist and welcome to the board. It's surprising to read that you found scientology an interesting case study, since it is not a religion at all except for the purposes of tax evasion.

What do you make of the 'Xenu' narrative, one of the most closely-guarded secrets of scientology?

That was going to be my question, also. :)

What do you think of Scientologists spending many tens of thousands of $$$$
undergoing a self-exorcism of body thetans, disembodied spirits which they believe are at the root cause of their problems?

Did you know Scientologists believe this information is so powerful
that it causes people to catch pneumonia and die if they are exposed to it prematurely?
 
Hi survivalist and welcome to the board. It's surprising to read that you found scientology an interesting case study, since it is not a religion at all except for the purposes of tax evasion.

What do you make of the 'Xenu' narrative, one of the most closely-guarded secrets of scientology?

Actually, I do think Scientology is a religion.

I have a broad view of religion. If a philosophy is trying to answer the ultimate questions of life (why are we here, do we have an immortal existence, is there a god, how should we act, etc.) then it's a religion. And of course, a religion can be evil - for example, Satanism is a religion, and so was the human-sacrifice religion of the Aztecs. I'd even view atheism as a religion. My standard really isn't the beliefs - there are many religions with strange beliefs - but rather the purpose. I also think cult and religion are not mutually exclusive.

So I'm not for a moment saying Scientology is a good religion or a positive force in the world, but I do think it's a valid religion. Specifically, my view is:


  • Scientology was absolutely and unquestionably made a religion for tax/legal purposes.
  • Hubbard was unquestionably a charlatan. It's complicated because there's a lot of first-hand accounts of him doing Scientology, auditing, etc., often for long periods by himself. In his paranoia he often raved about getting rid of his BTs. If it was just a scam, I think he would have taken the money and departed at some point, or at least not put in the time himself. So you have someone who's produced a system of belief that is part chicanery, part his own views, with an overriding interest in money and power. The chicanery and money lust are dominant themes, but even if you eliminated those, you still have a complex world view that Hubbard produced and some people accept.
  • Although though a lot of what I see in Scientology (again, I've never practiced) appears to be padding and of course the entire "bridge" is structured to maximize revenue, there's no doubt that there's some of Hubbard's own beliefs in the system. I think he did genuinely believe in BTs, etc. though it may be impossible to separate what was added as padding, what is recycled science fiction, and what is actually stuff he believed in. Hubbard also had well-documented mental issues. I heard once that Scientology is really a journey into Hubbard's mind, however warped it was.
  • No doubt really that Hubbard started Scientology for money-making purposes, but I think it for many people it evolved into a religion. When you see people who were born into Scientology and grew up with that belief system, even though it's obviously a destructive cult, it is still their religion. There are certainly other isolated groups (now, and historically certainly) that are cult-like but it's still a valid religious practice.

It's very complicated because I doubt the Scientology leadership (Miscavige) truly believes it, though he was raised and indoctrinated young, so likely a lot of his worldview is Scientology-authored. However, other than the top leadership, I think most of the SeaOrg and publics do believe in the answers to ultimate questions that Scientology provides. So while Miscavige may be milking members for cash, those members are genuine believers.

Again, just to be clear, I'm not defending Scientology at all, just saying that if people want to call it a religion, I can see that, even though its origins and practices may be unorthodox, even criminal, compared to the other major faiths. Even the idea of giving tons of money, being separate, disconnection, physical ordeals, etc. is not unique to Scientology - one could describe 19th century Mormonism the same way, and Mormonism is certainly a valid faith.

Honestly, what Scientology needs is a reformation - discard the leadership and jettison some of the OT space opera. If Scientology was just people who believed in being thetans and doing auditing without the exorbitant costs, brainwashing, and control issues, then it wouldn't be any worse than several other religions on the planet.

As for Xenu...well, it's strange. Honestly, I'm a devout Christian and I'm quite aware that things like the virgin birth, the resurrection, etc. are things that others would find strange. Of all the Scientology beliefs, I find the auditing and some of the trance-like rituals to be more disturbing that Xenu, which is an arbitrary story. It's clear (no pun intended) to Xenu, etc. was added because Hubbard needed to keep adding levels and that enabled the BT story. On the other hand, he did believe in his own BTs, so...
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
Actually, I do think Scientology is a religion.

I have a broad view of religion. If a philosophy is trying to answer the ultimate questions of life (why are we here, do we have an immortal existence, is there a god, how should we act, etc.) then it's a religion. And of course, a religion can be evil - for example, Satanism is a religion, and so was the human-sacrifice religion of the Aztecs. I'd even view atheism as a religion. My standard really isn't the beliefs - there are many religions with strange beliefs - but rather the purpose. I also think cult and religion are not mutually exclusive.

So I'm not for a moment saying Scientology is a good religion or a positive force in the world, but I do think it's a valid religion. Specifically, my view is:


  • Scientology was absolutely and unquestionably made a religion for tax/legal purposes.
  • Hubbard was unquestionably a charlatan. It's complicated because there's a lot of first-hand accounts of him doing Scientology, auditing, etc., often for long periods by himself. In his paranoia he often raved about getting rid of his BTs. If it was just a scam, I think he would have taken the money and departed at some point, or at least not put in the time himself. So you have someone who's produced a system of belief that is part chicanery, part his own views, with an overriding interest in money and power. The chicanery and money lust are dominant themes, but even if you eliminated those, you still have a complex world view that Hubbard produced and some people accept.
  • Although though a lot of what I see in Scientology (again, I've never practiced) appears to be padding and of course the entire "bridge" is structured to maximize revenue, there's no doubt that there's some of Hubbard's own beliefs in the system. I think he did genuinely believe in BTs, etc. though it may be impossible to separate what was added as padding, what is recycled science fiction, and what is actually stuff he believed in. Hubbard also had well-documented mental issues. I heard once that Scientology is really a journey into Hubbard's mind, however warped it was.
  • No doubt really that Hubbard started Scientology for money-making purposes, but I think it for many people it evolved into a religion. When you see people who were born into Scientology and grew up with that belief system, even though it's obviously a destructive cult, it is still their religion. There are certainly other isolated groups (now, and historically certainly) that are cult-like but it's still a valid religious practice.

It's very complicated because I doubt the Scientology leadership (Miscavige) truly believes it, though he was raised and indoctrinated young, so likely a lot of his worldview is Scientology-authored. However, other than the top leadership, I think most of the SeaOrg and publics do believe in the answers to ultimate questions that Scientology provides. So while Miscavige may be milking members for cash, those members are genuine believers.

Again, just to be clear, I'm not defending Scientology at all, just saying that if people want to call it a religion, I can see that, even though its origins and practices may be unorthodox, even criminal, compared to the other major faiths. Even the idea of giving tons of money, being separate, disconnection, physical ordeals, etc. is not unique to Scientology - one could describe 19th century Mormonism the same way, and Mormonism is certainly a valid faith.

Honestly, what Scientology needs is a reformation - discard the leadership and jettison some of the OT space opera. If Scientology was just people who believed in being thetans and doing auditing without the exorbitant costs, brainwashing, and control issues, then it wouldn't be any worse than several other religions on the planet.

As for Xenu...well, it's strange. Honestly, I'm a devout Christian and I'm quite aware that things like the virgin birth, the resurrection, etc. are things that others would find strange. Of all the Scientology beliefs, I find the auditing and some of the trance-like rituals to be more disturbing that Xenu, which is an arbitrary story. It's clear (no pun intended) to Xenu, etc. was added because Hubbard needed to keep adding levels and that enabled the BT story. On the other hand, he did believe in his own BTs, so...

Thank you for taking the time to write the above, it was a pleasure to read. Personally, I associate most religions with (apart from the dogma) a good deal of ritual and ceremony, aspects of which scientology is sorely lacking (unless you call auditing 'ceremony' or 'ritual'). Bearing that in mind and leaving aside the Xenu claptrap, I find it hard to identify much in scientology that one can compare with other religions, which is what prompted me to respond to your post.

As to whether Hubbard himself really believed in this stuff or not, I started this thread some time ago asking that very same question and got some very interesting responses.
 
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George Layton

Silver Meritorious Patron
Actually, I do think Scientology is a religion.

I have a broad view of religion. If a philosophy is trying to answer the ultimate questions of life (why are we here, do we have an immortal existence, is there a god, how should we act, etc.) then it's a religion. And of course, a religion can be evil - for example, Satanism is a religion, and so was the human-sacrifice religion of the Aztecs. I'd even view atheism as a religion. My standard really isn't the beliefs - there are many religions with strange beliefs - but rather the purpose. I also think cult and religion are not mutually exclusive.

So I'm not for a moment saying Scientology is a good religion or a positive force in the world, but I do think it's a valid religion. Specifically, my view is:


  • Scientology was absolutely and unquestionably made a religion for tax/legal purposes.
  • Hubbard was unquestionably a charlatan. It's complicated because there's a lot of first-hand accounts of him doing Scientology, auditing, etc., often for long periods by himself. In his paranoia he often raved about getting rid of his BTs. If it was just a scam, I think he would have taken the money and departed at some point, or at least not put in the time himself. So you have someone who's produced a system of belief that is part chicanery, part his own views, with an overriding interest in money and power. The chicanery and money lust are dominant themes, but even if you eliminated those, you still have a complex world view that Hubbard produced and some people accept.
  • Although though a lot of what I see in Scientology (again, I've never practiced) appears to be padding and of course the entire "bridge" is structured to maximize revenue, there's no doubt that there's some of Hubbard's own beliefs in the system. I think he did genuinely believe in BTs, etc. though it may be impossible to separate what was added as padding, what is recycled science fiction, and what is actually stuff he believed in. Hubbard also had well-documented mental issues. I heard once that Scientology is really a journey into Hubbard's mind, however warped it was.
  • No doubt really that Hubbard started Scientology for money-making purposes, but I think it for many people it evolved into a religion. When you see people who were born into Scientology and grew up with that belief system, even though it's obviously a destructive cult, it is still their religion. There are certainly other isolated groups (now, and historically certainly) that are cult-like but it's still a valid religious practice.

It's very complicated because I doubt the Scientology leadership (Miscavige) truly believes it, though he was raised and indoctrinated young, so likely a lot of his worldview is Scientology-authored. However, other than the top leadership, I think most of the SeaOrg and publics do believe in the answers to ultimate questions that Scientology provides. So while Miscavige may be milking members for cash, those members are genuine believers.

Again, just to be clear, I'm not defending Scientology at all, just saying that if people want to call it a religion, I can see that, even though its origins and practices may be unorthodox, even criminal, compared to the other major faiths. Even the idea of giving tons of money, being separate, disconnection, physical ordeals, etc. is not unique to Scientology - one could describe 19th century Mormonism the same way, and Mormonism is certainly a valid faith.

Honestly, what Scientology needs is a reformation - discard the leadership and jettison some of the OT space opera. If Scientology was just people who believed in being thetans and doing auditing without the exorbitant costs, brainwashing, and control issues, then it wouldn't be any worse than several other religions on the planet.

As for Xenu...well, it's strange. Honestly, I'm a devout Christian and I'm quite aware that things like the virgin birth, the resurrection, etc. are things that others would find strange. Of all the Scientology beliefs, I find the auditing and some of the trance-like rituals to be more disturbing that Xenu, which is an arbitrary story. It's clear (no pun intended) to Xenu, etc. was added because Hubbard needed to keep adding levels and that enabled the BT story. On the other hand, he did believe in his own BTs, so...

Wait! Wait! You forgot about God. Where is God in the scientology religion? (Not counting in COB's office drinking scotch.)
 

LA SCN

NOT drinking the kool-aid
I'm not an ex-scn, but I have read virtually every major critical work on the Church, consumed a lot of video/interview material, and read a fair number of Hubbard's writings. I'm not a protestor, nor an Anon, nor an "anti-Scientology activist".

I find the Scientology culture fascinating though not something I plan to take up personally. I studied comparative religion in college so from that perspective, Scientology is an interesting case study.

Really just here because I'm curious.

Actually, I do think Scientology is a religion.
...

Again, just to be clear, I'm not defending Scientology at all, just saying that if people want to call it a religion, I can see that, even though its origins and practices may be unorthodox, even criminal, compared to the other major faiths. Even the idea of giving tons of money, being separate, disconnection, physical ordeals, etc. is not unique to Scientology - one could describe 19th century Mormonism the same way, and Mormonism is certainly a valid faith.

Honestly, what Scientology needs is a reformation - discard the leadership and jettison some of the OT space opera. If Scientology was just people who believed in being thetans and doing auditing without the exorbitant costs, brainwashing, and control issues, then it wouldn't be any worse than several other religions on the planet.

As for Xenu...well, it's strange. Honestly, I'm a devout Christian and I'm quite aware that things like the virgin birth, the resurrection, etc. are things that others would find strange. Of all the Scientology beliefs, I find the auditing and some of the trance-like rituals to be more disturbing that Xenu, which is an arbitrary story. It's clear (no pun intended) to Xenu, etc. was added because Hubbard needed to keep adding levels and that enabled the BT story. On the other hand, he did believe in his own BTs, so...

Welcome to the board! And I hope you are not a cat - you may meet HelluvaHoax pretty soon... :eyeroll:
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Actually, I do think Scientology is a religion.

I have a broad view of religion. If a philosophy is trying to answer the ultimate questions of life (why are we here, do we have an immortal existence, is there a god, how should we act, etc.) then it's a religion. And of course, a religion can be evil - for example, Satanism is a religion, and so was the human-sacrifice religion of the Aztecs. I'd even view atheism as a religion. My standard really isn't the beliefs - there are many religions with strange beliefs - but rather the purpose. I also think cult and religion are not mutually exclusive.

So I'm not for a moment saying Scientology is a good religion or a positive force in the world, but I do think it's a valid religion. Specifically, my view is:


  • Scientology was absolutely and unquestionably made a religion for tax/legal purposes.
  • Hubbard was unquestionably a charlatan. It's complicated because there's a lot of first-hand accounts of him doing Scientology, auditing, etc., often for long periods by himself. In his paranoia he often raved about getting rid of his BTs. If it was just a scam, I think he would have taken the money and departed at some point, or at least not put in the time himself. So you have someone who's produced a system of belief that is part chicanery, part his own views, with an overriding interest in money and power. The chicanery and money lust are dominant themes, but even if you eliminated those, you still have a complex world view that Hubbard produced and some people accept.
  • Although though a lot of what I see in Scientology (again, I've never practiced) appears to be padding and of course the entire "bridge" is structured to maximize revenue, there's no doubt that there's some of Hubbard's own beliefs in the system. I think he did genuinely believe in BTs, etc. though it may be impossible to separate what was added as padding, what is recycled science fiction, and what is actually stuff he believed in. Hubbard also had well-documented mental issues. I heard once that Scientology is really a journey into Hubbard's mind, however warped it was.
  • No doubt really that Hubbard started Scientology for money-making purposes, but I think it for many people it evolved into a religion. When you see people who were born into Scientology and grew up with that belief system, even though it's obviously a destructive cult, it is still their religion. There are certainly other isolated groups (now, and historically certainly) that are cult-like but it's still a valid religious practice.

It's very complicated because I doubt the Scientology leadership (Miscavige) truly believes it, though he was raised and indoctrinated young, so likely a lot of his worldview is Scientology-authored. However, other than the top leadership, I think most of the SeaOrg and publics do believe in the answers to ultimate questions that Scientology provides. So while Miscavige may be milking members for cash, those members are genuine believers.

Again, just to be clear, I'm not defending Scientology at all, just saying that if people want to call it a religion, I can see that, even though its origins and practices may be unorthodox, even criminal, compared to the other major faiths. Even the idea of giving tons of money, being separate, disconnection, physical ordeals, etc. is not unique to Scientology - one could describe 19th century Mormonism the same way, and Mormonism is certainly a valid faith.

Honestly, what Scientology needs is a reformation - discard the leadership and jettison some of the OT space opera. If Scientology was just people who believed in being thetans and doing auditing without the exorbitant costs, brainwashing, and control issues, then it wouldn't be any worse than several other religions on the planet.

As for Xenu...well, it's strange. Honestly, I'm a devout Christian and I'm quite aware that things like the virgin birth, the resurrection, etc. are things that others would find strange. Of all the Scientology beliefs, I find the auditing and some of the trance-like rituals to be more disturbing that Xenu, which is an arbitrary story. It's clear (no pun intended) to Xenu, etc. was added because Hubbard needed to keep adding levels and that enabled the BT story. On the other hand, he did believe in his own BTs, so...

Nice post. I agree with almost everything you say, the main difference
is that I'm a freezone Scientologist. Certainly most students and
professors on religious matters would also agree that Scn is a religion.

As it happens I will shortly have an essay published in this field, the main premise being that the CO$ is dying. Looks like the Freezone or Independents are now larger than CO$.

I actually agree with just about all critical statements re CO$ and
many about Scn. I do though consider the tech useful and worthwhile.

With regard to BTs I consider it a real phenomenon having done
OT 2&3 both twice. Also found I separated from a "Twin Flame"
on OT 2. This is not a phenomenon remarked about in Scn though
maybe touched upon obliquely. It was a revelatory experience.
Now I have no interest in further pursuit of entities but have many
friends who do and seem to be doing well with that.

Writings on twin flames don't seem to me very exact, and sometimes contradictory and often full of less than optimal experiences. However
it seems that all who have had any dealings in this area are having some form of spiritual experience.

http://twinflameconnection.com/twin-flame/definition-of-twin-flame.html
 

Hypatia

Pagan
I think Scio may fit the bill in some people's eyes (to be a religion). I guess people take exception to the overly done business aspect, the way da cherch acts, and the way it claims to be several different things at once. This raises red flagsz
 

Gib

Crusader
I think Scio may fit the bill in some people's eyes (to be a religion). I guess people take exception to the overly done business aspect, the way da cherch acts, and the way it claims to be several different things at once. This raises red flagsz

imagine science and religion connecting, we don't have to imagine, it could be called business and religion connecting, but it's actually business and bullshit connecting = scientology.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QavEOfgeOi4
 

Knows

Gold Meritorious Patron
I agree - Scientology is a religion.:thumbsup: It has a religious cloak to keep it's crimes hidden from public view. It enjoys enurement of the leader and his minions doing the henious crimes in the name of El Ron. It has big fancy buildings. It has confessionals and uses those confessionals as emotional blackmail to keep the members from spilling the beans on what they observe inside the "religion".

Scientology, the religion, has a "church service" that lasts 10 minutes delivered by a Scientology minister (that took a course and was granted minister status). That took 10 hours.

Scientology, the religion, also collects $$$ for "services" delivered by volunteers. They call them donations. They are sitting on billions of dollars cuz they make the members pay for everything.

The Religion of Scientology worships L Ron Hubbard. L Ron Hubbard was a criminal con man hiding from the law hooked on barbiturates and alcohol. A bigomist that raped his daughter and loved to hurt people. These are all facts. What a God he was!!

Oh - It is most certainly a religion.:unsure::eyeroll:

AND Scientology is the type of religion that flies planes into buildings.

It is not quite at that point of beheading on national television in the name of "Allah" / Hubbard yet but soon...very soon. Hubbard ordered HEADS on PIKES and David Miscavige takes Hubbard's hypnotic commands literally. He is very low toned. :whistling:

Oh - Scientology, this modern day religion, also has suicide bombers too. These suicide bombers kill themselves without the bombs. They hang themselves, overdose and shoot themselves to get out of the pain from the religious "help" and take their loved ones down the tube with them.

Scientology has "spiritual practices" designed by Aleistar Crowly from his religion :ohmy: Thelema / OTO and the Golden Dawn. Some sex magick cool stuff in that religion.

Scientology, the "religion" is a system of hypnosis and mind control techniques to control its members. Isn't that what religions are suppose to do? Most Scientologist's go bankrupt, get divorced and ruin their lives utterly with the "tech" but they won't admit it. Eventually, everyone gets hurt in this religion. Everyone!!!

Oh - yes indeed....Scientology is a religion.
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
I'm not an ex-scn, but I have read virtually every major critical work on the Church, consumed a lot of video/interview material, and read a fair number of Hubbard's writings. I'm not a protestor, nor an Anon, nor an "anti-Scientology activist".

[HIGHLIGHT]I find the Scientology culture fascinating[/HIGHLIGHT] though not something I plan to take up personally. I studied comparative religion in college so from that perspective, Scientology is an interesting case study.

Really just here because I'm curious.

Actually, I do think Scientology is a religion. >snip<
:welcome2:

Emphasis and snip mine

$cientology isn't a religion. It's a mind control cult. The legal religious cloaking $cientology hides behind is a sham allowing $cientology to further prey on citizens while dodging lawsuits brought against them. Ever hear of OSA? It's their "hat" misinforming people with cult propaganda so the $cientology cult is equated with religion sounding benign in nature when in fact $cientology is a ruthless mob-like crime syndicate.

I don't know what you mean by finding the $cientology culture fascinating. Do you mean the murders and suicides? Broken minds, hearts and families? People conned out of their money with bait and switch false promises? Cultist mental & emotional indoctrination? Terrorized with Disconnection, Dead Agenting & Fair Game?

I know you mean well but a lot of people have been victimized and terribly hurt by $cientology.
 
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I don't know what you mean by finding the $cientology culture fascinating. Do you mean the murders and suicides? Broken minds, hearts and families? People conned out their money with bait and switch false promises? Terrorized with Disconnection, Dead Agenting & Fair Game?

I know you mean well but a lot of people have been victimized and terribly hurt by $cientology.

I meant the entire Hubbard-Miscavige story. It's really breathtaking - pulp sf writer/misfit becomes billionaire by starting a religion. There's a private fleet and bizarre "technology". His heir consorts with some of the most famous media personalities of the 21st century, and also takes on the IRS and wins. The government is infiltrated. Secret mountain bases are created with titanium vaults and symbols to be read from space. War is waged with a legion of Internet hackers and the greatest secrets are parodied in animation. An order of haggard men in naval uniforms rules as the inner elite.

I mean, how could that story not be fascinating?

Granted, the same is true for the story of the Adolph Hitler and the Nazis, or Joseph Stalin, etc. It's a story primarily of human horror, but it's bizarre on such a grand scale that I find it interesting.

I don't actually "mean well" (or ill) in the sense of having an agenda or anything - never been to a protest, no friends or family in Scientology. I've been on the Internet since 1991ish and was a heavy USENET reader during the a.r.s. wars so I became interested in the Church's activities then and have periodically followed through the years.
 

Gib

Crusader
Actually, I do think Scientology is a religion.

I have a broad view of religion. If a philosophy is trying to answer the ultimate questions of life (why are we here, do we have an immortal existence, is there a god, how should we act, etc.) then it's a religion. And of course, a religion can be evil - for example, Satanism is a religion, and so was the human-sacrifice religion of the Aztecs. I'd even view atheism as a religion. My standard really isn't the beliefs - there are many religions with strange beliefs - but rather the purpose. I also think cult and religion are not mutually exclusive.

So I'm not for a moment saying Scientology is a good religion or a positive force in the world, but I do think it's a valid religion. Specifically, my view is:


  • Scientology was absolutely and unquestionably made a religion for tax/legal purposes.
  • Hubbard was unquestionably a charlatan. It's complicated because there's a lot of first-hand accounts of him doing Scientology, auditing, etc., often for long periods by himself. In his paranoia he often raved about getting rid of his BTs. If it was just a scam, I think he would have taken the money and departed at some point, or at least not put in the time himself. So you have someone who's produced a system of belief that is part chicanery, part his own views, with an overriding interest in money and power. The chicanery and money lust are dominant themes, but even if you eliminated those, you still have a complex world view that Hubbard produced and some people accept.
  • Although though a lot of what I see in Scientology (again, I've never practiced) appears to be padding and of course the entire "bridge" is structured to maximize revenue, there's no doubt that there's some of Hubbard's own beliefs in the system. I think he did genuinely believe in BTs, etc. though it may be impossible to separate what was added as padding, what is recycled science fiction, and what is actually stuff he believed in. Hubbard also had well-documented mental issues. I heard once that Scientology is really a journey into Hubbard's mind, however warped it was.
  • No doubt really that Hubbard started Scientology for money-making purposes, but I think it for many people it evolved into a religion. When you see people who were born into Scientology and grew up with that belief system, even though it's obviously a destructive cult, it is still their religion. There are certainly other isolated groups (now, and historically certainly) that are cult-like but it's still a valid religious practice.

It's very complicated because I doubt the Scientology leadership (Miscavige) truly believes it, though he was raised and indoctrinated young, so likely a lot of his worldview is Scientology-authored. However, other than the top leadership, I think most of the SeaOrg and publics do believe in the answers to ultimate questions that Scientology provides. So while Miscavige may be milking members for cash, those members are genuine believers.

Again, just to be clear, I'm not defending Scientology at all, just saying that if people want to call it a religion, I can see that, even though its origins and practices may be unorthodox, even criminal, compared to the other major faiths. Even the idea of giving tons of money, being separate, disconnection, physical ordeals, etc. is not unique to Scientology - one could describe 19th century Mormonism the same way, and Mormonism is certainly a valid faith.

Honestly, what Scientology needs is a reformation - discard the leadership and jettison some of the OT space opera. If Scientology was just people who believed in being thetans and doing auditing without the exorbitant costs, brainwashing, and control issues, then it wouldn't be any worse than several other religions on the planet.

As for Xenu...well, it's strange. Honestly, I'm a devout Christian and I'm quite aware that things like the virgin birth, the resurrection, etc. are things that others would find strange. Of all the Scientology beliefs, I find the auditing and some of the trance-like rituals to be more disturbing that Xenu, which is an arbitrary story. It's clear (no pun intended) to Xenu, etc. was added because Hubbard needed to keep adding levels and that enabled the BT story. On the other hand, he did believe in his own BTs, so...

Professor Benjamin Beit-Hallahmi submitted an excellent paper on scientology, called it "Scientology: Religion or racket?" written in 2003.

https://www.uni-marburg.de/fb03/ivk/mjr/pdfs/2003/articles/breit2003.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Beit-Hallahmi

excerpt:

"Scientology's own documents show an organization which is blatantly commercial,blatantly secular and blatantly predatory, as well as blatantly fraudulent. As Hubbard himself said in 1962, the religion label "is entirely a matter for accountants and solicitors" (Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, HCOPL, 29 October 1962). Scientology will use the religion label when it is convenient, and a secularlabel when it suits better. It will use the cross (as it has done in publications anddisplays on buildings) just like it has used Sigmund Freud's name."

Some things missing from the professors examination because he didn't know was that when hubbard died, he told his trusted friend Steve "Sarge" Pfauth that he failed and wasn't coming back. This was revealed in the movie Going Clear and Marty Rathbun book Memoirs of a Scientology Warrior, year 2013.

Also, what the Professor did not know is that The Bridge to Total Freedom advertised by the "church" has OT levels up to OT15. Hubbard at his dead of 1986 had only released up OT8. DM and Marty both found out their were no OT levels above OT8 written by Hubbard.

There is some controversy of is meant by Hubbard saying he failed. As far as I'm concerned, he failed by two reasons. One being there are no "clears" or "OT's". Two, even if I was still a believer it is a religion, why there are no OT levels above OT8. This is a fraud, a lie, by DM, and he his keeping the fraud alive, more lies by DM.

The so called Church of Scientology you think is a religion, is only half complete. Members that are still in do not know about what I write above or what others have written.

so Yah, it's a racket.
 

Churchill

Gold Meritorious Patron
Lawrence Brennan was instrumental in developing the Religious Cloaking strategy that Scientology used in order to create religious bona fides.

Google "religious cloaking" for more info.
 
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