Hello from quite some time ago.

Discussion in 'New Member Introductions' started by Royal Prince Xenu, Apr 11, 2019.

View Users: View Users
  1. Royal Prince Xenu

    Royal Prince Xenu Trust the Psi Corps.

    There was a skirmish between this forum and a "secret" FB group, which led to a number of people being banned. I never really understood the nature of the disagreement and refused to be forced into a position of "choosing my friends" when we're all fighting for the same thing.

    I was never privy to the content of the FB group and, sadly, the one contact that I truly valued made the decision for me by cutting me off.

    Although I had contributed much to this forum, I was still hurt and needed a holiday. Little did I know that circumstances would make it such a long one! I guess the absence of reminder emails from the (then) new server contributed to my loss of interest. Do we ever truly recover from the trauma? Sometimes we just have to stop picking at the sores.

    Several of those few face-to-face friends who know of my Scn entanglement have been asking me about the revelations in the recent broadcasts by Australia's SBS of Leah Remini's Scientology: The Aftermath, and again, sadly, I've had to confirm that, to the best of my knowledge, they are true. Those that I can't confirm based on policy are also 99.9% probably true.

    This is why I'm sticking my head back in the blender.

    I know that the series is at least 12 months old, but I would like to do some basic fact-checking.

    As best I remember, RTC and GAT were already established before Hubbard's official death. Checking now, RTC was created in 1982. Is this evidence that Miscavage was planning his coup much sooner? When, and over how long, was the Gold Base turned into a Maximum Security Prison?

    While we all know that Hubbard was no saint, how much effort has gone into documenting the perversions of Hubbardology by Miscavage? When I was around, Hubbard had policies on how children were to be raised and cared for within the SO. Admittedly, from what I saw, those policies were implemented rather poorly but, as I remember it, Hubbard saw those children as future Scientologists, not liabilities.

    I can understand Miscavage making a unilateral decision to remove children from the environment just for the sake of PR, but isn't forced abortion blatantly off-policy?
     
  2. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    I was at Flag Bureau in the early 1980's.

    Back then we had Watchdog Committee. As far as I can determine, the real purpose of WDC was to provide an "official" head of Scientology, so as to insulate LRH (and later Miscavige) from any potential liability. But even before WDC, we had to get approval for everything from AVC (Authority and Verifications something-or-other). All orders and telexes from "Flag Executives" had to be sent thru AVC for approval before going out. There was a nice lady in that office, whose name I forget but who I liked at the time, who would do initial review. Then the stuff would go "uplines" for final OK. This "uplines approval" requirement was likely seen as a vulnerability for LRH, and thus WDC was created, to be the cut-out for "uplines".

    I only met one WDC member, Jon Horwich (Diana Hubbard Horwich's husband), who was holding the "Network Liaison"(WDC-NWL) position.
     
  3. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    I think there may have been multiple factions competing to be the ones who would gain control after LRH. Miscavige was the head of the winning faction. I saw a lot of indications of high-level factional fighting in the mid-1980's, before LRH's death.
     
  4. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Welcome back, Royal Prince Xenu! :welcome2:

    I can't personally tell you anything about Flag, RTC, etc., but Jesse Prince may have some information for you. He's on Facebook.

    As far as children, though, I've written a bucketload on threads in the past. To summarize:

    1) There has never been any evidence of LRH condoning abortions. In fact, DMSMH is blatantly against it. However, the lack of information or any policy directly addressing abortion indicates to me that he was willing to ignore it if it happened.
    2) L Ron Hubbard did not like spending money on children so spent as little on them as possible. Mary Sue and some others felt differently. Their proposals for better housing, Parents Committees, etc. were shot down by Hubbard. (See Flag Order by Hubbard that cancels the Parents Committee). L Ron disapproved spending the money for a good building for SO children in Los Angeles. (I know - I saw the Mission Orders as a Sea Org Missionaire).
    3) L Ron Hubbard defined children differently from "Cadets." He thought children were a distraction from production and did not like staff spending time with their kids, which took time away from Scientology production, so discouraged this or kept it to the barest possible minimum. Sometimes he transferred parents on assignments far away from their children where they did not see them for years.
    4) L Ron Hubbard never set policy on how many children per nanny, nor any strict policies against child abuse, child neglect or molestation. No doubt such policies were proposed to him over the years by others and disapproved, though.
    5) L Ron Hubbard personally locked a deaf-mute child up alone for a week. He did not like children and at times, could be severely abusive.
    6) He liked young Cadet girls around him to hold his ashtray, run messages, run his bath, etc. I don't think that means he actually saw Cadets as valuable to the future of Scientology, but he probably trusted their loyalty more than others. I don't think he ever really thought much about the future of Scientology. His interests were comfort, power, greed and ego.

    ADDED (Important): I meant to add that 1986 was not the first time SO staff were not allowed to have children. L Ron Hubbard had banned staff having children in different parts of the world before that. We had the references and stories at one point, but when it was done in the past, the bans were temporary, though sometimes very long. It had been done before, but never done permanently like that until DM.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 4
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  5. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    There is a huge difference between LRH's attitudes regarding abortion and children as depicted in DMSMH (the Dianetics book from 1950, before LRH had an organization) versus his attitudes about such during the time when he had staff, and where other people's children directly and negatively affected him and his income.

    LRH kept a CLOSE eye on what was going on. Do not assume that he did not know EVERYTHING that was going on. LRH cared only about LRH. Understand that one datum, and you will understand everything about Scientology.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 3
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  6. Royal Prince Xenu

    Royal Prince Xenu Trust the Psi Corps.

    Ah, yes! The lovely "Princess Diana" who delighted in randomly overboarding people on the Apollo--a true chip off the old block. I'm not normally a mean person, but if I could back in time I would love to toss her overboard a few times and then see whether she continued the practice or not. I know that the Australian "nursery" at Rose Bay was often unstaffed, and the children left to run amuck. With no guidance or training, what else was to be expected? I "nannied" many staff member children, probably in extreme excess of the number permitted by law at that time.

    Under Hubbard's bans were pregnant women relieved of their posts? Were they routed out for the duration of average Maternity Leave? Or what?

    I also recall the policy about SO quals that stated if a person "wanted to leave" that was one of the valid reasons for routing him out. I saw too many Australian SO members who had no choice but to route out because of crippling debt that could never be paid on the SO stipend.

    At the time I blew from staff, it was because of a huge debt threatening Court action. I was still a believer, and felt that I had no choice but to leave and find a real job because I didn't want to bring the Church into disrepute for not paying a living wage so that I could have handled the debt. As it had been one of my goals to get into Gold or InComm, I had little incentive to return to staff, because having blown automatically disqualified me.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    • List
  7. Royal Prince Xenu

    Royal Prince Xenu Trust the Psi Corps.

    I know there many children severely mistreated under Hubbard's direct orders, and after encountering information disclosed by the estranged Ron de Wolfe, I get the distinct impression that everything he wrote about coat-hanger abortions in DMSMH were based on his own attempts to perform such an abortion.

    Remember that I wanted to believe, even after I left and self-deprogramming took many years.
     
  8. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    I thought I had read some years ago that some coerced abortions happened in the S.O. during the time LRH was running things.
    But don't recall the source, so could be wrong about this.

    What IS known though is how he treated Nancy Many, his direct junior (if I recall correctly), ordering her onto the RPF when she was pregnant under hazardous conditions.

    For any lurkers who have not read that story, it is here:

    My Billion Year Contract: Memoir of a Former Scientologist
    https://www.amazon.com/My-Billion-Y...1&s=gateway&sprefix=nancy+many,aps,367&sr=8-1
     
  9. CaliMule

    CaliMule Work Hard and Bray

    If "fact checking", why engage in the ritual of swallowing the idea that Miscavage subverted anything, as opposed to carried out a plan of Hubbard's that involved subterfuge and betrayal, devised by his own veteran experience in this?

    Consider the legend that David Mayo was discovered to be disloyal and thus purged. Never once in the telling of anyone of this story was there a face to face meeting, personal phone call, or any unobstructred line of communication between Hubbard and Mayo. Why would Hubbard accept hearsay natter about Mayo, after the intensely close relationship over years, unless he was looking for a way to get rid of Mayo while saving face for himself in the process?

    Hubbard abandoned or betrayed any family member he needed to, any close associate who wanted something better than a master slave relationship with him, and was obviously willing to accept a grim existence in his final years improved only by the loyalty and kindness of untrained Annie and the meager paliative medications he barely tolerated getting from Denk - all of this in service of keeping his image intact.

    The man was ruled by vanity from his earliest adult years, and selected to carry on his legacy someone too dimwitted and powerless to do anything but attempt to slavishly carry out a plan for fulfilling his vanity post-mortem. Without Hubbard, no one would even follow David Miscavige to a free meal.

    There was no subversion of Hubbard's intent, merely an execution of his scheme which preserved a vain legacy for himself at the expense of everything else.

    It had to have been clear to Hubbard by the time he abandonded his family, never to see them again, in moving away to settle near Creston, that the same story he was encountering in his own life was the story of long term Scientologists. Their children are better at abandoning Scientology than Catholic children are at becoming lapsed Catholics. Fresh meat were more gullible than people who had been raised witnessing the fraud unfold as they progressed through the years towards adulthood. He wasn't too dense or unobservant to notice this.

    Seriously, why swallow the shore story - that Miscavige subverted Hubbard's intent?
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List