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Hello. I am a scientist.

Veda

Sponsor
Sure he didn't want to be related with Scientology. He was a UN mole. Also, he didn't want to pay royalties and penalties for ussing Scientology advanced levels without authorization.

Here he describes his doint OT III. He did OT III prior to 1977. He sais he is happy to get rid of BTs!

AdvOTSympSwann.jpg


http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runni...y_chick_corea_heber_jentzsch_ot_symposium.php

Ah yes, the "OT Summit" during the autumn of 1976, which was featured in the next issue of 'Advance!' magazine. There's a transcript of some of the conversation. As I recall, the "OTs," all of whom had done, at least, OT 3, were talking "knowingly," but in an oblique manner - so as to not re-stimulate those at lower awareness levels - about how "quiet" their "space" is, and how nice it is to finally, be "alone" (in other words, free of "BTs"), after having done OT 3.

AdvOTSymposium.jpg


Here's a comment from "OT" Celebrity Chick Corea demonstrating some serious Hubbard cultism:

"It's amazing but almost any policy letter, technical bulletin or book will give me what I need, which is not necessarily the actual concept that I'm needing but that viewpoint again. LRH's viewpoint."


When Dianetic Clear was announced in 1978 and, suddenly, almost everyone was "Clear," and NOTs was announced and, just as suddenly - but more discreetly - "OTs," who, for years, "knew" they had "no more BT case," then "knew" they not only had more "BT case," but lots and lots more "BT case," I began to see - and could no longer deny to myself - the extent to which Hubbard had hypnotic power over Scientologists.

And Ingo Swann went along with it. He was made a fool of too, at least for a while.
 

Leland

Crusader
^^

For those unfamiliar....the above would be "Original OT 7" which was the top of the bridge in those days.....and is in no way related to the current OT 7....and was a totally different auditing situation.
 

cuitlahuac

Patron with Honors
I recall that, and heard the program when it was aired. He predicted a catastrophic blight that would spread to all vegetation on Earth, and destroy life as we know it.

Neither this nor any of his other predictions of doom have some true.

He has an awful record of predictions that never happened and, yet, he maintains a business where he sells remote viewing courses, etc.

On the topic of Ingo Swann, he was a natural psychic and, according to his account, his psychic abilities, present in childhood, returned when he was doing the "lower grades." He later, after leaving Scientology, described the "OT levels" as disappointing.

During late 1972, in New York City, I talked with Ingo Swann, and watched as he was asked questions by a (non Scientology) audience. One person asked, "Are you a Scientologist." He answered, visibly annoyed and embarrassed, "yes."

He also wrote series of predictions, in the mid 1970s, and, thinking back, none of them have come true.

Around early 1973, there appeared an article in Advance! magazine featuring Ingo Swann and an interview with him. It was big Scientology news.

Shortly afterwards, in a confidential issue, 'Intelligence, Its Role', Hubbard dismissed and ridiculed, at length, the idea of using any sort of extrasensory means of collecting information.

When it came to covert data collection, Hubbard was staying with the down-to-earth approach. There was no adequately consistent result with the work Ingo and others were doing.

What is called, "Remote viewing" is, these days, a form of clairvoyance. It is not, these days, "exterior with perception."

All the Scientology materials, including the original OT levels in Hubbard's handwriting, have been available outside corporate Scientology since the early 1980s.

Not an OT in sight.

Despite this, there are those who believe that Scientology - because of its powerful tech, etc. - was taken over by an extraterrestrial/Gobbamnet alliance, specifically to keep OTs from being made.

He predicted a fungus mutating in Africa and spreading to the USA and afecting weath. And according to the video in the previous post, that is what happened in fact.

As regards Ingo, maybe this is the interview. Here we have Swan doing ESP:

INGO: Do you now what I do when I have a situation that I can't really resolve in my own space? I got to the Scientology books and I just sort of psychometrize [the ability to divine facts about an object, or its owner through contact with it or proximity with it] and pull it out and the page opens up.

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runni...y_chick_corea_heber_jentzsch_ot_symposium.php
 

Veda

Sponsor
He predicted a fungus mutating in Africa and spreading to the USA and afecting weath. And according to the video in the previous post, that is what happened in fact.

-snip-

He predicted that virtually all plant life on Earth would be destroyed.

He's a con man.
 

cuitlahuac

Patron with Honors
^^

For those unfamiliar....the above would be "Original OT 7" which was the top of the bridge in those days.....and is in no way related to the current OT 7....and was a totally different auditing situation.

So, which OT levels are in the Internet... the original OT levels Swan did or the "New" ones used by Miscavige?
 

cuitlahuac

Patron with Honors
He predicted that virtually all plant life on Earth would be destroyed.

He's a con man.

The Philadelphia Doctorate Course lectures explain that the future can be "scanned" (did you see the therm? "scann") but that there are several tracks for this scanning, several viewpoints for the scanning. Obviously Major Dames has a problem determining how and what to scan and has to adjust his RV. And also, the future is changable. Predictions can fail not only because they are false predictions but because the future can be changed and evil doings can be stopped. Example: Anti-Scientologists predicted the disappearance of Scientology since 10 years ago, but that has not happened.
 

Reasonable

Silver Meritorious Patron
Hello, I'm a scientist. Specifically, a physics professor. I know — so what? So nothing. I’ve never been a Scientologist, never even taken their personality test. It's just that over the past year or so, reading stuff online, I’ve become fascinated by Scientology as a phenomenon. I’ve been lurking here for a few months now, and I notice that the ESMB FAQ says people with no Scientology history are welcome to post.

What I can offer is a sort of reality check. My impression is that a lot of smart people get caught in Scientology when they are young or otherwise vulnerable; and then once they’ve been in a few years, it can be really hard to escape the Scientology worldview. So maybe someone will find it useful to know what it all looks like to an educated adult with an open but scientifically informed mind. I'm not saying the conclusions are any surprise, but it may be handy to know that they're obvious to an outsider.

First, it’s obvious that there are no ‘superpower’ OT abilities, such as ‘stable exteriorization with full perception’. It’s obvious because out-of-body perception, or creating even tiny amounts of physical mass or force by mental ‘mocking up’, would be huge and basic violations of natural law as we now understand it. Now, my point is not that we are sure that what we now understand must be true! My greatest hope is that there are major new discoveries still to be made; if not, I'm wasting my life. My point is that OT superpowers would be a major new discovery.

Anyone who really had OT superpowers would easily be able to demonstrate them rigorously. And then, because this would be so scientifically surprising, they wouldn’t just win the million dollar prize of the James Randi Foundation. They’d win the Nobel prize in physics, get their name up in the lights of world history along with Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein, and immediately gain the stature to draw millions of people onto ‘the Bridge’. Anyone who could do that, surely would do that. Nobody has, so we know that nobody can.

On the other hand, though, at least a few bits of Scientology probably do work, as far as they go. Quasi-hypnotic euphoria from prolonged concentration, subjective sensations of being out of one's body, other stuff like this, these are all known phenomena. There are a lot of funny mental quirks in the human brain that are not yet fully understood, but perfectly real. Scientology may well have managed to include a few of these. That doesn’t mean they are what Scientology says they are. Just because the bait is real cheese doesn’t mean the trap is not a trap.

So it seems likely that a few basic things in Scientology do work, though they will also work at least as well outside Scientology; but the big promises in Scientology certainly do not. What keeps people stuck wasting years of their lives, hoping vainly to advance from their initial cool but modest 'wins' to the nonexistent OT states? This kind of psychology isn't my field, but I think an explanation that fits all the facts I've seen can be found in the folktale of the Emperor's New Clothes.

This is all true but Scientology is not about logic it is about emotions and salesmanship
. It is about finding out what people want (superpowers) and telling people they can have it.

It is not sold to everyone, it is carefully marketed with a big net to find the people with the right conditions in the right time in the right situations who will buy into it.

It gives you some things "today" such as a community, and in some cases relief from some unwanted mental condition, such as a fear. Or it gives you some help in your business.

All the time holding out hope that super powers are at the end of the rainbow.

But as long as you are doing OK then you stay.

For me, I was doing well in my business and my health and it gave me a stable base of concepts on which I could think.

Also I was younger and I didn't have anything else to measure it against, such as other forms of running a business and other forms of mental gymnastics such as hypnotism or meditation or talking with a friend about my problems.

You talk about the idea that if there were superpowers then Hubbard would have gotten a noble prize.

We were made to believe that there were super powers on the upper levels that we have not seen yet and the people who have them should not show them or the government would squash us, so we should not go showing off these super powers. It was a very elaborate trap, and quite funny looking back.

But I think that most people stay if while they do Scientology their lives are good.
For me life was good so I simply attributed that to doing Scientology.

I might still be there if they didn't start kicking out my friends and stealing my money.

I am not saying you are wrong, I am agreeing with you. But people rarely buy things based on logic, they buy and act on emotions a lot more than logic and your points are all logical.
 

cuitlahuac

Patron with Honors

This is all true but Scientology is not about logic it is about emotions and salesmanship
. It is about finding out what people want (superpowers) and telling people they can have it.

It is not sold to everyone, it is carefully marketed with a big net to find the people with the right conditions in the right time in the right situations who will buy into it.

It gives you some things "today" such as a community, and in some cases relief from some unwanted mental condition, such as a fear. Or it gives you some help in your business.

All the time holding out hope that super powers are at the end of the rainbow.

But as long as you are doing OK then you stay.

For me, I was doing well in my business and my health and it gave me a stable base of concepts on which I could think.

Also I was younger and I didn't have anything else to measure it against, such as other forms of running a business and other forms of mental gymnastics such as hypnotism or meditation or talking with a friend about my problems.

You talk about the idea that if there were superpowers then Hubbard would have gotten a noble prize.

We were made to believe that there were super powers on the upper levels that we have not seen yet and the people who have them should not show them or the government would squash us, so we should not go showing off these super powers. It was a very elaborate trap, and quite funny looking back.

But I think that most people stay if while they do Scientology their lives are good.
For me life was good so I simply attributed that to doing Scientology.

I might still be there if they didn't start kicking out my friends and stealing my money.

I am not saying you are wrong, I am agreeing with you. But people rarely buy things based on logic, they buy and act on emotions a lot more than logic and your points are all logical.

You're missinforming Dokta... Ingo Swan (UN agent) was a natural psychic before becomming (infiltrating) Scientology. So, he was not somebody to delude on supernatural phenomena.
 

Leland

Crusader

This is all true but Scientology is not about logic it is about emotions and salesmanship
. It is about finding out what people want (superpowers) and telling people they can have it.

It is not sold to everyone, it is carefully marketed with a big net to find the people with the right conditions in the right time in the right situations who will buy into it.

It gives you some things "today" such as a community, and in some cases relief from some unwanted mental condition, such as a fear. Or it gives you some help in your business.

All the time holding out hope that super powers are at the end of the rainbow.

But as long as you are doing OK then you stay.

For me, I was doing well in my business and my health and it gave me a stable base of concepts on which I could think.

Also I was younger and I didn't have anything else to measure it against, such as other forms of running a business and other forms of mental gymnastics such as hypnotism or meditation or talking with a friend about my problems.

You talk about the idea that if there were superpowers then Hubbard would have gotten a noble prize.

We were made to believe that there were super powers on the upper levels that we have not seen yet and the people who have them should not show them or the government would squash us, so we should not go showing off these super powers. It was a very elaborate trap, and quite funny looking back.

But I think that most people stay if while they do Scientology their lives are good.
For me life was good so I simply attributed that to doing Scientology.

I might still be there if they didn't start kicking out my friends and stealing my money.

I am not saying you are wrong, I am agreeing with you. But people rarely buy things based on logic, they buy and act on emotions a lot more than logic and your points are all logical.

Just a note about this topic from an ex....and long time in.

The "Bridge" has been altered and altered and altered....again and again ....as to the "line up" of what is to be done.

The "original OT levels" have been altered also.....

The current OT levels.... are still called "Pre OT Levels..."

I don't want to spread more Cult spew....but may as well get the facts straight.

The Cult says the first "OT" level will be OT 9. Many say that Hubbard DID NOT write any OT levels beyond OT 8.

Many say that even the current OT 8 was not written by Hubbard....and is substitute...due to the one he wrote being rabidly focused on Jesus and Anti-Christian ramblings....

Currently, from what I gather, as a stop gap measure....those that do finish OT 8 are being sent back to the bottom of the bridge to start over.

IMO, OT 8, for some, kinda makes the participant wiped out....and eradicated.. They are not themselves anymore. Kinda like a baby....

Going back to the beginning of the bridge, IMO, is just to indoctrinate again....those that already went through it a first time....

So according to the Cult's own stance on this matter....there are no OTs.

I do have a sneaking suspicion that there are some secret rundowns...that only a few get...and perhaps some of the long time Celebs get, for millions of dollars.....but that is just my opinion.

Edited to add: I've know quite a few OT 8s that are as dumb as a bag of rocks.....IMO, there is something seriously wrong with OT 5 - 8 and actually all the "OT levels."
 
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Leland

Crusader
You're missinforming Dokta... Ingo Swan (UN agent) was a natural psychic before becomming (infiltrating) Scientology. So, he was not somebody to delude on supernatural phenomena.

Ingo in some Scientology Magazine back in the late 70's stated he (paraphrased) "got his powers back on the SHSBC....."

If I recall this correctly.....
 

Lone Star

Crusader
Just a note about this topic from an ex....and long time in.

The "Bridge" has been altered and altered and altered....again and again ....as to the "line up" of what is to be done.

The "original OT levels" have been altered also.....

The current OT levels.... are still called "Pre OT Levels..."

I don't want to spread more Cult spew....but may as well get the facts straight.

The Cult says the first "OT" level will be OT 9. Many say that Hubbard DID NOT write any OT levels beyond OT 8.

Many say that even the current OT 8 was not written by Hubbard....and is substitute...due to the one he wrote being rabidly focused on Jesus and Anti-Christian ramblings....

Currently, from what I gather, as a stop gap measure....those that do finish OT 8 are being sent back to the bottom of the bridge to start over.

IMO, OT 8, for some, kinda makes the participant wiped out....and eradicated.. They are not themselves anymore. Kinda like a baby....

Going back to the beginning of the bridge, IMO, is just to indoctrinate again....those that already went through it a first time....

So according to the Cult's own stance on this matter....there are no OTs.

I do have a sneaking suspicion that there are some secret rundowns...that only a few get...and perhaps some of the long time Celebs get, for millions of dollars.....but that is just my opinion.

Edited to add: I've know quite a few OT 8s that are as dumb as a bag of rocks.....IMO, there is something seriously wrong with OT 5 - 8 and actually all the "OT levels."

That's my experience too, that OT8s are as dumb as a bag of rocks. I've personally watched up close someone going up the Bridge. I watched this person get nuttier, and nuttier the higher up he/she went. OT7 seemed to be the worst. Damn near had several psychotic breaks while on it. Now he/she is OT8. Business that he/she started before Scientology is declining. An adult child of this clubbed seal had a psychotic break not too long ago.

Is absolutely not at cause of jack shit. Business. Personal life. Relationships. Family. All a mess.

This person actually had some real skills before getting the OT levels. All gone now. Scientology does not, does not, does not work! Period. It does the exact opposite.

Oh, and I can also confirm that OT 8s are going back and redoing lower levels of the Bridge. Again. Purif. TRs and Obj. Pro TRs. The Ls, even if they've already done them before. Then there's the useless fucking Super Powers. What a joke.
 
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Leland

Crusader
There was one guy, that lived in a group house...I was in. He had been on OT 7 for many years....and didn't work. His wife supported him.

Anyway, one of their hobbies was to go to pawn shops and thrift stores and buy stuff on the weekends.....

This "in progress" OT 7, called me aside one time to show me his "valuable watch collection."

When he laid them all out, to see, he said these are all "Patek Phillip" watches.....

I was completely shocked, all the watches were the junkiest , Hong Kong knock off.....cheap, just junk watches. Even the plating was rubbed off them......

Patek Phillip is a highly regarded Swiss watch maker....that makes EXPENSIVE.....gold time pieces that cost 10s of thousands of dollars each.

This OT 7.....was a complete NUT CASE.....He swore to me that these were genuine.....!! That is what he really thought.


(Perhaps.....LOL, he thought he could "cause" me to think so too?????) Could he have been that crazy?

Edited to add:

I had been in this group home for a year or two.....and the owner brings over this couple...(above) purportedly as wanting to BUY the house.

Then it turns out....they just rent a bedroom.

When I came home the first night they had moved in....this guy....extremely over weight, was laying on the foyer floor....and had this HUGE abbess on his leg. (an open wound). His wife asked me to help get him off the floor and upstairs to their bedroom.

The guy had to "go into session" several times a day and his wife would go running all over the house...telling everyone to be quiet, as there couldn't be any disturbances...."while he was in session...." (so much for cause..,,)

They drove a junky old beat up car also....
 
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cuitlahuac

Patron with Honors
Ah yes, the "OT Summit" during the autumn of 1976, which was featured in the next issue of 'Advance!' magazine. There's a transcript of some of the conversation. As I recall, the "OTs," all of whom had done, at least, OT 3, were talking "knowingly," but in an oblique manner - so as to not re-stimulate those at lower awareness levels - about how "quiet" their "space" is, and how nice it is to finally, be "alone" (in other words, free of "BTs"), after having done OT 3.



Here's a comment from "OT" Celebrity Chick Corea demonstrating some serious Hubbard cultism:

"It's amazing but almost any policy letter, technical bulletin or book will give me what I need, which is not necessarily the actual concept that I'm needing but that viewpoint again. LRH's viewpoint."


When Dianetic Clear was announced in 1978 and, suddenly, almost everyone was "Clear," and NOTs was announced and, just as suddenly - but more discreetly - "OTs," who, for years, "knew" they had "no more BT case," then "knew" they not only had more "BT case," but lots and lots more "BT case," I began to see - and could no longer deny to myself - the extent to which Hubbard had hypnotic power over Scientologists.

And Ingo Swann went along with it. He was made a fool of too, at least for a while.

I wonder if this has to do with some "ex-scientologists" initiating a BT Jihad against the Church. If I remember well, Alan Walters was recruiting BTs to train them and go replace the BTs OT IIIs were getting free of. An I suspect OSA (Church Gestapo) also organized its own BT Jihad against freezoners. Down an example:

From: "Alan C. Walter"
Date: Sun Oct 8, 2000 9:43 pm
Subject: A Black Op Fails

On Saturday evening I received a phone call.....

Alan: "Hello?"

A recently departed OT& was on the line.

Caller: "I can't stop crying!" "I'm being overwhelmed by hate." Followed by continuous sobbing.

C: "What can I do?"

Omitted guesses by C: as to what or who is causing the condition.

A: "Are you in a black cloud?"

C: "It seems like it."

A: "How big?"

C: "It covers our whole house."

A: "Is it a cluster?"

C: "It appears to be....it is emanating hate and confusion"......"What will I do? How do I handle this?

A: " Do nothing.....I will send a team of ST's (ST = Spiritual Teammate.) in to help."

...Several 1,000 more clients recruited for the Spiritual Training and Co-Processing Unit..."

**Note: It strongly appears that the "client" denoted above, is Tory Bezazian-an OT 7 who is now an Ex-scientologist. The idea that the "client" referenced above, looks to be Tory, was posted about by David Griffin to ARS, a newsgroup that Tory regularly reads and posts to. Tory never responded to the posts by David. Thus one could assume tentatively, that David's posts linking Tory to be the "client", are correct.

http://web.archive.org/web/20050310...logyintegrity.org/htmldocs/tt/2000.shtml#1200

Here Spiritual Teammate is also refered to BTs (released by OT IIIs) recruited by Walters and his buddies and trained to pose as BTs to "infest" again OT IIIs.

In this case, it seems these were Spiritual Teammates recruited by OSA to go bully an ex-scientologist.

Jesus! The spiritual warfare was raging in those years and I suppose it still is...

Makes you feel uneasy... This is worse than getting at ods with witches.

Note: I have to post the links to the BTs being recruited and used for psychic warfare. This seems to indicate that there is a BT-Spiritual-Teamate factory in some Freezone areas and shure one at Flag. I hope this does not excomunicates me from areas.

Jesus creapy stuff...
 

cuitlahuac

Patron with Honors
Note that the McClaughreys referred to those they don't like
as "Agents".

That the McClaughreys work for an infiltration team or master (or they are their own master) does not mean their evaluation is useless. I refer to them because their time track is usefull, but it is the time track of infiltrators and so must be verified, but Mike McClaughry worked in the Guardian's Office and so he knows what happened in those years.

By the way. I kind of feel safe arround you. This means you are not doing Remote Viewing or, worse, sending disincarte remote viewing entities to spy on me. (The kind of stuff Alan Walters did). As far as I know, the McClaughreys are in the North Western USA. I am in Mexico.

I am not a McClaughrey, I am not a folower of the McClaughreys. They did a pretty job of compiling Bill Robertson materials. Maybe their aim (That of the team they work with) is to make a "paralel vector" operation, that is, pretending to follow Bill Robertson's tech but at the end ussing it for other purpuses or masters. My gess is that they are very briliant people collecting technology for selling it to "Big Players".

Hope that saves some time for you on my "folder" at some "freezone" orgs. A real freezone for me is the one that adheres to the definition of the Freezone as given by its originator, Capt. Bill Robertson, and as stated by him, that he was commanded by Hubbard to do so.

And as regards Swan being a UN "agent". The entries in this time track of Remote Viewing indicate that Swan, along wit Puthoff (NSA) and Pat Price (a cop and CIA?) were doing Scientology advanced levels to later go to the CIA and use taxpayer money for research. United Nations is a New World Order entity, that involves Illuminati and ETs. What Puthoff, Price and Swan did in mid and late 70's is what people did in Scientology in the early 50's, as described in the Philadelphia Doctorate Course. That is, Remote Viewing with the risk of being "taken" or "captured" by government or ET trapping technology. All this indicates that Swan got into Scientology to get to the then secret OT levels. He is/was a UN "agent", wether McClaughry states that or not.

http://www.wanttoknow.info/mind_control/scientology_remote_viewing
 
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Lone Star

Crusader
That the McClaughreys work for an infiltration team or master (or they are their own master) does not mean their evaluation is useless. I refer to them because their time track is usefull, but it is the time track of infiltrators and so must be verified, but Mike McClaughry worked in the Guardian's Office and so he knows what happened in those years.

By the way. I kind of feel safe arround you. This means you are not doing Remote Viewing or, worse, sending disincarte remote viewing entities to spy on me. (The kind of stuff Alan Walters did). As far as I know, the McClaughreys are in the North Western USA. I am in Mexico.

I am not a McClaughrey, I am not a folower of the McClaughreys. They did a pretty job of compiling Bill Robertson materials. Maybe their aim (That of the team they work with) is to make a "paralel vector" operation, that is, pretending to follow Bill Robertson's tech but at the end ussing it for other purpuses or masters. My gess is that they are very briliant people collecting technology for selling it to "Big Players".

Hope that saves some time for you on my "folder" at some "freezone" orgs. A real freezone for me is the one that adheres to the definition of the Freezone as given by its originator, Capt. Bill Robertson, and as stated by him, that he was commanded by Hubbard to do so.

And as regards Swan being a UN "agent". The entries in this time track of Remote Viewing indicate that Swan, along wit Puthoff (NSA) and Pat Price (a cop and CIA?) were doing Scientology advanced levels to later go to the CIA and use taxpayer money for research. United Nations is a New World Order entity, that involves Illuminati and ETs. What Puthoff, Price and Swan did in mid and late 70's is what people did in Scientology in the early 50's, as described in the Philadelphia Doctorate Course. That is, Remote Viewing with the risk of being "taken" or "captured" by government or ET trapping technology. All this indicates that Swan got into Scientology to get to the then secret OT levels. He is/was a UN "agent", wether McClaughry states that or not.

http://www.wanttoknow.info/mind_control/scientology_remote_viewing

You should write a book, or a screenplay for a movie on this stuff. It's very fascinating and fantastical. That doesn't mean I believe most of it, hence my use of fantastical. But I find it to be interesting.

Mike M's stuff is wild and interesting too. I really thought you were him at first actually.

Anyway, carry on....

:bong::ship:
 
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