Hello, I'm Chloe

[MrNobody]

They also did some anti-newsgroup operations like "Cancel Bunny" and Spambot.

Cancel Bunny tried to eliminate postings that Scn didn't like by using a hole in the protocol that allowed them to cancel the posting (even though they were not the poster).

This did NOT make regular newsgroup users happy with Scientology. In their effort to suppress negative info, OSA made increasing numbers of enemies among non-Scn Internet users.

Spambot tried to make newsgroups unreadable by flooding them with spam.

ADDING: And there's also the "net nanny", where Scientologists were persuaded to install software from a CD, supposedly to compose a Scientology homepage for themselves. Carried along was software which inserted itself into their PC, and blocked internet access to anti-Scn sites, or to sites containing certain keywords like Xenu.

CancelBunny and SpamBot!

I was running a Usenet server at that time.

CancelBunny made me reconfigure my server to ignore any cancels and any automated execution of systems messages, which taught me quite a bit about the underlying NNTP protocol and programming in general.

SpamBot together with numerous off topic posts made my killfile grow out of proportions and was the reason for me to finally kick ARS off of my server. Maintenance, administrative tasks and last but not least the incredibly long data transmission times did cost me way more than ARS was worth to me.

Soon thereafter, Internet had basically conquered every household in my neck of the woods, so I shut down my little local dial-up information business and my Usenet server as well.

Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

 

[Hypatia]

I lurked on ARS, ACT and OCMB for quite a while, very rarely posting. But I got to know some of the regulars and followed their posts with great interest. Sometimes I wonder who's gone where since the nicks have changed.

 

[Mick Wenlock]

I lurked on ARS, ACT and OCMB for quite a while, very rarely posting. But I got to know some of the regulars and followed their posts with great interest. Sometimes I wonder who's gone where since the nicks have changed.

on ARS I was Deomorto - if that helps

 

[Churchill]

When you watched Going Clear, was there one aspect of Scientology's malevolence that stuck in your mind? That had an impact?

I ask, because for me, it was Hubbard's insane and brutal behavior towards Sara Northrop, the 2nd wife he denied marrying, and who bore him a daughter, Alexis, to whom he dedicated his fabulist opus maximus "Science of Survival."

What part of Going Clear moved your needle, Chloe?

Chloe???

(sigh)

 

[JustSheila]

Chloe's around, Churchill. She's been on other threads but might have gotten a bit lost in the conversation here.

 

[Chloe]

First of all, I would like to update you about the project. It officially finishes at the end of January and I'm done since yesterday. A few days ago I had my last visit to discuss the OCA (an assigment for the thesis). I came prepared (I calculated the results, read the OCA Manual) and was expecting 'hard sell', but there was none of it! It was just a friendly chat (60 min) and CoS advised me to purchase one course only. I said that I didn't think that it would benefit me and they didn't try to force me. I did notice some love bombing this time, but apart from that was the visit nice.
--
@OriginalBigBlue (http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?41183-Hello-I-m-Chloe&p=1085013&viewfull=1#post1085013)
Hmm, so you might think that Scientology in Europe is a bit more relaxed. I didn't know about a RPF in Bulgaria, it shocks me a bit. I like your comparison with the Laffer curve (or another economic model, such as maximum profit)! I think it might be like that indeed!

@ThetanExterior (http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?41183-Hello-I-m-Chloe&p=1085116&viewfull=1#post1085116)
Thanks for your warnings. I read KSW again and yes, it askes for full commitment!

@Churchill (http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?41183-Hello-I-m-Chloe&p=1085130&viewfull=1#post1085130),
The things about The Hole, RPF and the scene about Hubbard believing that he was possessed by a Giant BT and that he wanted to kill himself. And I loved Jason Beghe talking about everything.

@He-man & Enthetan (http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?41183-Hello-I-m-Chloe&p=1085134&viewfull=1#post1085134)
Hmm, this is a difficult one. I'm not sure if you can make Scientology responsible for all the neglect of the childeren. (But I want to be careful, because I don't know enough about this!)

@Guanoloco (http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?41183-Hello-I-m-Chloe&p=1085355&viewfull=1#post1085355),
Thank you for your interesting reply! It was a good read. I knew that Hubbard lied in his biography, but this wikipage was still disturbing. I didn't know that Sara knew Crowley..

"Hubbard became Parsons' "magical partner" for a sex magic ritual involving that was intended to summon an incarnation of a goddess"

Which ''affirmations'' do you mean? I think I didn't read them yet!

 

[Ogsonofgroo]

Hiya Cloe, the 'affirmations' of Hubbard have been kind of an elusive doc, if I am not mistaken there are several places it can be viewed, xenu.net archives, lerma.com archives, or possibly OCMB, its not that hard to find, and certainly an interesting view into the self analysis of a very disturbed person, which Mr. Hubbard was without any doubts. If I can get to it I'll post some of it, or a link, or something, but I welcome anyone's jumping in here if they haz the stuff. I am sort of foggy-brained atm~ flu/cold/feel like crap, so not up to my normal sparkly self



Edit~ Here ya go, its a start~ https://scicrit.wordpress.com/2014/03/29/l-ron-hubbards-affirmations-admissions/

then, there's the wiki pages, probably the best source for research purposes imho, it is here~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmations_(L._Ron_Hubbard)


Best Regards,

Ogs


Edit~ I'd like to add, that it has been very nice to see you here, though you are a young-un, you have engaged the community very well and seem like a nice and sensible person.
You have a long life ahead and I wish you very well in all your endeavours!

 

[TheOriginalBigBlue]

First of all, I would like to update you about the project. It finishes at the end of January and I'm done since yesterday. A few days ago I did my last visit to discuss the OCA (an assigment for the thesis). I came prepared (I calculated the results, read the OCA Manual) and was expecting 'hard sell', but there was none of it! It was just a friendly chat (60 min) and CoS advised me to purchase one course only. I said that I didn't think that it would benefit me and they didn't try to force me. I did notice some love bombing this time, but apart from that was the visit nice.
--
@OriginalBigBlue (http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?41183-Hello-I-m-Chloe&p=1085013&viewfull=1#post1085013)
Hmm, so you might think that Scientology in Europe is a bit more relaxed. I didn't know about a RPF in Bulgaria, it shocks me a bit. I like your comparison with the Laffer curve (or another economic model, such as maximum profit)! I think it might be like that indeed!

I hope you will continue to visit ESMB. My theory is that Scientology will continue on as a subject for college students long after the organization is gone. As I mentioned, there can be a big difference depending on where you are and it sounds like this place isn't as fanatical. It is my impression that the Brits were more relaxed but there are Exes from Britain and other European countries who can comment better. I expect its still petty nasty but The Hole was in the US and that seems to be the Gold Standard (pun intended). You may still get mail and phone calls, especially if your contact info gets sent to a central database.

I did not mean to say that there was an RPF program being conducted in Bulgaria. To clarify, they seem to be using a lot of people from poorer countries on Religious R-1 visas. Word is they post them in non-SO orgs and use them as coins to trade up higher qualified staff to SO units. My concern is that they may expand operations into countries such as Bulgaria where they might start implementing RPF programs with even less legal protections than the US and Britain. Our own State Department naively provides cover for this kind of activity under USCIRF and the COS lobbies them for it. http://www.uscirf.gov/

http://tonyortega.org/2016/01/13/do...scientologys-reliance-on-cheap-foreign-labor/


I think my concept about the Laffer Curve was a bit nuanced. Maybe I've fleshed it out already but the idea is that there can be an optimum point for abuse for every organization after which the regressive effect exceeds any benefit of cooperation. This might be different for North Korea or some other entity and it isn't necessarily the point where things decline. It is the point where the irreversible precipitation for decline begins. It could be argued that the causation traces back to the earlier GO or ethics enforcement under the HCO or LRH's affiliation with Jack Parsons, etc. but its feasible they could have continued on with this in the background indefinitely if they didn't go all in on the ships. It may also take time to consume resources that subsidize the organization beyond this point including "good will". DM was a product of the standard of conduct established on the ships. He was on the lines as LRH's Messenger on Duty and then Action Chief for Missions around the time of the massive RPF buildups in the late 70s. Even the post of Messenger was created on the ships and Messengers would be the ones to convey LRH's sentence or reprieve to the RPF.

I doubt this just spontaneously evolved. Scientology is a manifestation of LRH's mind. The idea of a ship or world where he was free to exercise absolute control may have been the central pillar of his vision from the start and everything else would be a means to an end. This is the frightening lesson of Scientology - that it might be a replicable formula which can be transplanted into schools, business, government or underworld activities for generations to come.

 

[guanoloco]

First of all, I would like to update you about the project. It officially finishes at the end of January and I'm done since yesterday. A few days ago I had my last visit to discuss the OCA (an assigment for the thesis). I came prepared (I calculated the results, read the OCA Manual) and was expecting 'hard sell', but there was none of it! It was just a friendly chat (60 min) and CoS advised me to purchase one course only. I said that I didn't think that it would benefit me and they didn't try to force me. I did notice some love bombing this time, but apart from that was the visit nice.
--
@OriginalBigBlue (http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?41183-Hello-I-m-Chloe&p=1085013&viewfull=1#post1085013)
Hmm, so you might think that Scientology in Europe is a bit more relaxed. I didn't know about a RPF in Bulgaria, it shocks me a bit. I like your comparison with the Laffer curve (or another economic model, such as maximum profit)! I think it might be like that indeed!

@ThetanExterior (http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?41183-Hello-I-m-Chloe&p=1085116&viewfull=1#post1085116)
Thanks for your warnings. I read KSW again and yes, it askes for full commitment!

@Churchill (http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?41183-Hello-I-m-Chloe&p=1085130&viewfull=1#post1085130),
The things about The Hole, RPF and the scene about Hubbard believing that he was possessed by a Giant BT and that he wanted to kill himself. And I loved Jason Beghe talking about everything.

@He-man & Enthetan (http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?41183-Hello-I-m-Chloe&p=1085134&viewfull=1#post1085134)
Hmm, this is a difficult one. I'm not sure if you can make Scientology responsible for all the neglect of the childeren. (But I want to be careful, because I don't know enough about this!)

@Guanoloco (http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?41183-Hello-I-m-Chloe&p=1085355&viewfull=1#post1085355),
Thank you for your interesting reply! It was a good read. I knew that Hubbard lied in his biography, but this wikipage was still disturbing. I didn't know that Sara knew Crowley..

Which ''affirmations'' do you mean? I think I didn't read them yet!

Hiya Cloe, the 'affirmations' of Hubbard have been kind of an elusive doc, if I am not mistaken there are several places it can be viewed, xenu.net archives, lerma.com archives, or possibly OCMB, its not that hard to find, and certainly an interesting view into the self analysis of a very disturbed person, which Mr. Hubbard was without any doubts. If I can get to it I'll post some of it, or a link, or something, but I welcome anyone's jumping in here if they haz the stuff. I am sort of foggy-brained atm~ flu/cold/feel like crap, so not up to my normal sparkly self



Edit~ Here ya go, its a start~ https://scicrit.wordpress.com/2014/03/29/l-ron-hubbards-affirmations-admissions/

then, there's the wiki pages, probably the best source for research purposes imho, it is here~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmations_(L._Ron_Hubbard)


Best Regards,

Ogs


Edit~ I'd like to add, that it has been very nice to see you here, though you are a young-un, you have engaged the community very well and seem like a nice and sensible person.
You have a long life ahead and I wish you very well in all your endeavours!

Hi, Chloe,

Ogs, my good buddy, posted some links. I didn't read those so the one I am posting may be a duplicate.

http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/writings/ars/ars-2000-03-11.html

Some is mundane but some is pretty startling. Hubbard was depraved, selfish and extremely immature.

"It doesn't give me displeasure to hear of a virgin being raped. The lot of women is to be fornicated."​

Quite the greatest friend of mankind...it just doesn't get much uglier or disturbed than that.

 

[prosecco]

@He-man & Enthetan (http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?41183-Hello-I-m-Chloe&p=1085134&viewfull=1#post1085134)
Hmm, this is a difficult one. I'm not sure if you can make Scientology responsible for all the neglect of the childeren. (But I want to be careful, because I don't know enough about this!)

-snip-

Obviously there is parental responsibility, and when one uses words such as, 'all of the neglect,' then this sort of qualifies the statement.

Hubbard's views of children and women is what is packaged and sold as, 'the right way of doing things,' including as the central tenet that children are merely small bodies in recycled spirits, it makes the neglect seem almost deserving.

The are several aspects to child neglect, with probably the most severe being those children who were raised in the Sea Org nursery, hardly ever seeing their parents, maybe for an hour a day, but even this was linked to personal production. This is institutionalised child abuse. It makes me ill how the C of S is promoting, 'human rights' yet this was clearly a breach of human rights per the UNCHR, 'right to family life...'

 

[dchoiceisalwaysrs]

I don't recall saying Welcome Chloe, so I will just say ..glad you made it here and are enjoying your time.

And TOBB I would add that as I see it; the closer and longer people were to the 'automatic_Always Attack, never defend' narcissistic personality trait of Hubbard the greater the chance of an eventual and ultimate demise.

Whether this occurred in direct contact with hubbard, or within his immediate area of command or all the way out into the field/world where his mentally ill created dystopia had been taken on and acted upon by those who were subsumed by it are definitely points which could be on a graph with axis of incidents of hubbard personal trauma vs societal harm and the denizens anti-dote eradication thereof.

Perhaps a psychologist with a focus on the 'origins and development of a criminal mind' could shed some light on what must of been El Con's 'incident Zero' ya know..his basic basic LOL

Maybe I’m trying to make too fine of a distinction but once LRH got people isolated on the ship where he could treat them like a military captain on the open seas and senior management became accepting of this chain locker level of conduct the trajectory toward something like the Mission Holder’s Conference was irreversible.

I think in Going Clear, Hana Eltringham Whitfield witnessed the moment Scientology was doomed when LRH explained to her the need for more discipline.

 

[TheOriginalBigBlue]

Perhaps a psychologist with a focus on the 'origins and development of a criminal mind' could shed some light on what must of been El Con's 'incident Zero' ya know..his basic basic LOL

It only took 18 years to go from fuzzy self help Dianetics Seminars and sweater vests to boiler suits and feeding people out of a slop bucket on the ship. I don't recall that being on the Intro to the Sea Org tapes.

Maybe Maitreya is Marcabian for Xenu. We shall never know.

 

[Gib]

First of all, I would like to update you about the project. It officially finishes at the end of January and I'm done since yesterday. A few days ago I had my last visit to discuss the OCA (an assigment for the thesis). I came prepared (I calculated the results, read the OCA Manual) and was expecting 'hard sell', but there was none of it! It was just a friendly chat (60 min) and CoS advised me to purchase one course only. I said that I didn't think that it would benefit me and they didn't try to force me. I did notice some love bombing this time, but apart from that was the visit nice.
--
@OriginalBigBlue (http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?41183-Hello-I-m-Chloe&p=1085013&viewfull=1#post1085013)
Hmm, so you might think that Scientology in Europe is a bit more relaxed. I didn't know about a RPF in Bulgaria, it shocks me a bit. I like your comparison with the Laffer curve (or another economic model, such as maximum profit)! I think it might be like that indeed!

@ThetanExterior (http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?41183-Hello-I-m-Chloe&p=1085116&viewfull=1#post1085116)
Thanks for your warnings. I read KSW again and yes, it askes for full commitment!

@Churchill (http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?41183-Hello-I-m-Chloe&p=1085130&viewfull=1#post1085130),
The things about The Hole, RPF and the scene about Hubbard believing that he was possessed by a Giant BT and that he wanted to kill himself. And I loved Jason Beghe talking about everything.

@He-man & Enthetan (http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?41183-Hello-I-m-Chloe&p=1085134&viewfull=1#post1085134)
Hmm, this is a difficult one. I'm not sure if you can make Scientology responsible for all the neglect of the childeren. (But I want to be careful, because I don't know enough about this!)

@Guanoloco (http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?41183-Hello-I-m-Chloe&p=1085355&viewfull=1#post1085355),
Thank you for your interesting reply! It was a good read. I knew that Hubbard lied in his biography, but this wikipage was still disturbing. I didn't know that Sara knew Crowley..

Which ''affirmations'' do you mean? I think I didn't read them yet!

That's about right, Chloe. You have experience the good side of scientology. As you were a newbie, not too much pressure was exerted on you. But, now that they have your Email and home address and phone number, expect those things to occur. You'll be getting lots of emails, phone calls, promo pieces, it won't stop.

Maybe one day somebody from the COS will talk to you live, and convince you to come back. Maybe, maybe not. It's a numbers game in the eyes of the organization. Hubbard even wrote a Policy Letter which says the "purpose of marketing is to drive in more people than the org can waste". or in other words, it's a numbers game.

But, lets say you continued. What would happen? And lets say you never had your research or all the information all the people who had warned you about the COS here on ESMB, what would happen?

I'll tell you.

If you continued, you would be encouraged to join staff, and maybe even the Sea Org. This is all done gradually, slowly. And if you really latched onto scientology, and became gung ho to climb the ranks of management in the Sea Org, to clear the planet, why you would become like this fellow Aaron Saxon. His story is a story that public paying scientologists do not know, I never knew it the whole 25 years I was in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWkPmZ3Pd1M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbrUpQgYm7w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVi6wRZM30A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMyXs0VGe48

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkjYyxLX_vY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixuM_JSd3HU

 

[Gib]

That's about right, Chloe. You have experience the good side of scientology. As you were a newbie, not too much pressure was exerted on you. But, now that they have your Email and home address and phone number, expect those things to occur. You'll be getting lots of emails, phone calls, promo pieces, it won't stop.

Maybe one day somebody from the COS will talk to you live, and convince you to come back. Maybe, maybe not. It's a numbers game in the eyes of the organization.

And if you Chloe don't think I'm right about that, check out Mike Rinder blog exposing the COS working on getting their CF up to date. CF means central files, or files of anybody who had any interest in scientology, all their names and addresses and now emails. And why, so each scientology church can call, email or send promo to everybody that showed the slightest interest, a numbers game.

This is not the only post Mike Rinder has done about the COS updating their CF files, all COS churchs everywhere are doing this.

http://www.mikerindersblog.org/another-tampa-ideal-org-milestone/

 

[David C Gibbons]

Welcome, Chloe.

Please know that you came very close to entering the jaws of the trap. Too many of us had our imaginations captured by Hubbard's manipulations. He and his thralls used our good intentions to pull us in, and then strip us of our money, our time, our friends and our families. In the end, we found Scientology to be another 'bright and shining lie', and what was behind the facade was poverty, degradation, madness, and sometimes death. Other miserable little cults do the same thing, but we know this one through bitter personal experience. Beware Scientology.

Dave

 

[Chloe]

Just a short message to let you know that I didn't disappear
I have moved and am still settling.

 

[Jump]

Just a short message to let you know that I didn't disappear
I have moved and am still settling.

Thanks for the update.

Oh, and don't give 'them' your new address.

 

[Chloe]

Sorry for my late reply. Adapting to my new life and enjoying good experiences here

@ Ogsonofgroo & Guanaloco
Thanks for your compliment and links!
Interesting read and insight in how Hubbard was, kinda creepy ("Material things are yours for the asking. Men are your slaves.
Elemental spirits are your slaves. You are power among powers, light in the darkness, beauty in all." or "You can be merciless when your will is crossed and you have the right to be merciless.") and anti-woman too.

@TOBB
Yes, I think I will keep on reading a bit more, but on a lower pace I received a mail (and replied) and got one very friendly e-mail with an invitation for an event and that everything is booming in the Org

@Gib
Thanks for your reply! I don't experience this yet, but it might. They dont' have my old (and new) adress. I've read your article about the central files, so may be I'm not stored there? Or not yet..?
I haven't watched the docu yet, but it's on my list! I will react later

 

[DagwoodGum]

Welcome, Chloe.

Please know that you came very close to entering the jaws of the trap. Too many of us had our imaginations captured by Hubbard's manipulations. He and his thralls used our good intentions to pull us in, and then strip us of our money, our time, our friends and our families. In the end, we found Scientology to be another 'bright and shining lie', and what was behind the facade was poverty, degradation, madness, and sometimes death. Other miserable little cults do the same thing, but we know this one through bitter personal experience. Beware Scientology.

Dave

Heartfelt and encompasses the full spectrum of what the experience is, was to us all.
I'm often disheartened to find friends who never got free and are still mentally enslaved 45 years after I first walked in to the jowls of the beast, later to unwittingly become a little piece of the beast myself.
That red carpet was a tongue...

 

[TheOriginalBigBlue]

@TOBB
Yes, I think I will keep on reading a bit more, but on a lower pace I received a mail (and replied) and got one very friendly e-mail with an invitation for an event and that everything is booming in the Org

Tip: When you move, if you want to avoid unwanted mail from following you to your new address, use a PO Box until you have notified everyone whom you wish to keep of your new address and then drop the box without a forward. Good luck!