Discussion in 'New Member Introductions' started by Michelle Reed, Jan 8, 2019.

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  1. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    I'm not sure where you got these ideas on Psychologists and Psychology from, but they paint a picture which is completely false.

    Maybe what you said was true back in the 1950's.

    Psychologists don't see "talking" as a solution to depression. :no::faceslap:

    They've got many drug-free therapies to help someone. Here's a couple links which cover some of the best ones:

    Which Therapy is Best for Depression?

    Overcoming depression: How psychologists help with depressive disorders

    Also, Psychologists don't just have drug-free solutions but they have a financial incentive to help their patients without the use of drugs.
    Due to their inability to prescribe drugs they risk losing a paying patient by referring them to a psychiatrist.
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
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  2. TomKat

    TomKat Patron Meritorious

    Love the optimism. When you're old enough you might see that most of what is supposed to be true is in fact not. Too many people lying to themselves and everyone else just to get by, make a living.

    Your drug-free therapies cited above are what I meant by "talking": remembering, hand-holding, interpreting, leading to understanding a la Dr. Phil. Ultimately it's a uniquely personal problem that nobody but self can solve; you have to fill the hole in your soul. It might be caused by poor nutrition and unhealthy lifestyle. But it's never just one thing, and there's something behind everything.
  3. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    My post wasn't based upon 'optimism'. Countless people have been helped by psychologists (and psychiatrists) who had depression.

    I'm plenty old enough to see that you're asserting something as fact when it is just you're opinion, and you've failed to back up your opinion with anything of substance.

    OK, but seems like a bit of an oversimplification.

    And working with professionals who have a strong track record at helping others solve similar problems to the one you're having can help you tremendously, can't it?

    If you're having a problem of ANY nature that you cannot resolve on your own wouldn't it make sense to work with a professional who has a strong track record at helping others to resolve the same type of problems?
    Yes, for sure this IS true.

    And for anyone suffering from depression I would recommend that they address their nutrition and lifestyle first. Here's a good article that covers some of that:

    13 Natural Remedies for Depression: Find Hope Again!

    Anyways, I'm not going to derail Michelle's thread any more than I already have. So if you want to continue this discussion let's do it in another thread.
  4. Lulu Belle

    Lulu Belle Moonbat

    Yeah. Bruce was married for many years to a non-Sea Org Scientologist named Joyce. That's why he didn't live on base.

    Eventually they divorced and he remarried another SO staff member.
  5. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    Hi Michelle.

    I too struggle daily...and I've been out for 18 years now. I hear you for sure!

    I don't know what to say about it....

    Are you ok financially...? Are you working? How is your living space security?
  6. TomKat

    TomKat Patron Meritorious

    When the talk therapy doesn't work, and it generally doesn't for depression, they put them on drugs. How many people in the US are on anti-depressants? Many times more than the "countless" cured by talk therapy, no doubt. Scientology is talk therapy. How many people were cured of depression by that? A few, maybe.
  7. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    I was treated by a psychologist -- a non-MD psychotherapist -- for about 2 1/2 years after I got out of scn. No drugs. I found it quite helpful, much more so than scn. If you think you need psychotherapy, I'd say a psychologist is a good place to start. I must admit I've never consulted a shaman, so I can't compare.
    SOME of scn is talk therapy, but it's hardly representative of what is called talk therapy in the real world. Comparing what passes for talk therapy in scn with non-scn talk therapy is like comparing cotton candy with real food. They're only distantly related.

    There used to be something -- in the old 1954 Auditor's Code, maybe? -- that said, "I promise to audit the preclear in front of me, and not to audit SOME IMAGINED CASE." Ironically, most of the time in scn that's what you're doing: auditing some imagined case.

    In scn, most of the time you aren't even talking about your REAL CASE. You're talking about your case as L. Ron Hubbard IMAGINED it. I don't think the auditing I got in scn had much to do with my actual case at all. That didn't get addressed until I was out of scn and saw a real psychotherapist.
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  8. PirateAndBum

    PirateAndBum Gold Meritorious Patron

    Hmm, why not solo NOTs instead of bothering with a shaman? Dr TomKat have you researched the causes of depression and ascertained they be due to BTs, thus requiring shamanic ministrations? Is soul retrieval to collect up lost bits of your own soul? Who's keeping these lost bits hostage and how do you go about finding them?

    Are these remedies you've done yourself for your own depression and had it resolved?
  9. TomKat

    TomKat Patron Meritorious

    That's an almost YES to most of your questions, as much a yes I can give based on the level of understanding reflected in the questions. Check out Sandra Ingerman for soul retrieval. Rowland Barkley for exorcism. Carl Jung for archetypes. It's a deep well, perhaps not worth pursuing for you.
  10. cakemaker

    cakemaker Patron Meritorious

    Where's Shelly?

    One post and she disappears.
  11. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    The first post on a natter board can be difficult. She's just taken one step in the direction of joining the SPs, and denying the whole planet of its future eternity. The whole agonized future of this planet depends on what she does here and now.

    She probably had a sensation of panic and impending doom as she pressed "send", and is now wondering whether she did the right thing.

    I experienced that kind of sensation when I once wrote a letter to Jon Atack, after getting out of Scientology. Half of me felt I was signing away my eternity as I signed the letter, even though I had already pretty much concluded that the CoS was not delivering spiritual freedom.

    She might come back.
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  12. This is NOT OK !!!!

    This is NOT OK !!!! Gold Meritorious Patron

    What's the problem with anti-depressants? They've been a god-send to millions.
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  13. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    I think we scared her away.
  14. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    I wasn't just being snarky here. I think the results you get from any therapy depend to a certain extent on how much confidence you have in that method of therapy. I'd read some Freud and thought it might help me, and that no doubt contributed to its success. But psychoanalysis isn't for everyone. For some people a shaman might actually be the way to go. I'm not opposed to a certain level of woo-woo if it works for you.
    Definitely. I think you're better off if you can hack it without drugs, because they introduce complications, but better that than suffering. A friend of mine has been on them for years and they've helped him. (He considers the talk therapy I had pseudo-science. He calls Freud "20th century phrenology.")
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2019
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  15. TomKat

    TomKat Patron Meritorious

    Between Freud and Jung, they've got the theory covered. But a state of mind here is also a place in the spiritual realm. That's where the shaman comes in.
  16. phenomanon

    phenomanon Canyon

    It was absolutely and without doubt or reservation, nor absence of corroboration, or equivocation, Thorazine.
    I went all the way back to the first page of this thread, and sure nuff, I had written LSD. That is wrong.
    The Pre-OTs name was David Voorhies and Gary Jacobs requested that I give David Thorazine.

    My Bad that I wrote a wrong word.
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  17. TomKat

    TomKat Patron Meritorious


    David Voorhees lives in Washington State. In 1982 or 1983, he had a similar experience in Los Angeles. He was auditing on the OT levels and experiencing great difficulty. He could not apply the materials to himself yet knew that he had to. He went crazy trying to audit the BTs and clusters. He was held captive in a room somewhere in Los Angeles for weeks and injected with Thorazine injections by his captors to calm him.
  18. Michelle I have been in several comparable activities with SCN being my most favored accomplishment ♦ I am not aware if it is known at AO Level Materials what I went though as my personal individuated experience ▬▬ nor think that it would be given serious extensive write up in the writings ♦ this is a case where it is not some long-past history but is Real Live Time now

    So the entire nature of SP type materials and discussion we get into some exotic ideas and Calcium Ion stuff

    This was no overnight so I report that we have 5 years to even «Get over it» in the common sense then my struggle is not with the materials nor some of the participants whom are non-sincere but the daily normal stuff of routine life ♦ I did not blow as it wass planned to participate only when they do
  19. phenomanon

    phenomanon Canyon

    I cure my depression by going shopping.
  20. phenomanon

    phenomanon Canyon

    If we are talking about the same incident, what was said to me was " we are giving him ( David) Thorazine, and telling him it is Vitamins".
    I assume it was pills or capsules, not injections.