Hi im new with questions

Discussion in 'New Member Introductions' started by lightweight, Dec 17, 2018.

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  1. lightweight

    lightweight Patron

    Hey all. I have been trying to untangle the mess of the good and the bad in scn and i think im getting there. I need a bit of help though if you have the time...
    1. is the word clearing you do on the meter (i never did it) any good ie i have heard it was amazing that some weird word comes up and you go back track I guess and find you know it from a different language or lifetime etc. I really don't know the process at all but am curious what is going on there?
    2. when you go anaten or sleepy when reading - what is that? is it really an mu? looking up a word seems to help but maybe because its getting you to do something other than read stuff you find boring....any thoughts?
    3. touch assist and locationals - are these putting you in a light trance so you feel better or do they actually make you feel better because you become more awake and cause?
    4. did hubbard believe all his own shit? why did he audit all the time when he could see he was getting sicker?
    5. is past life stuff all made up and if so why do you get wins on answering a question re a past life thing?

    Thanks - also is the com course that a lot of people say has helped them in life - not just a way to get you in a trance? I remember when i started many years ago i had trouble sleeping and after some intro auditing which didn't go too well i thought it weird - i saw the com course booklet and 'being there' was exactly my problem at night - i had a racing mind and couldn't stop thinking - so i did the course and first drill i nodded off. I remember after course feeling more relaxed etc and i got off to sleep really well that night and my sleep was much better (did nt last forever) - and i wondered if i went to 'sleep' at that point and have only just 'woken up'. is that by design do you think or was hubbard really correct about blowing off shit when confronting causing anaten?
     
  2. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    The purpose of TR's is to make you more suggestible. That's why it was made the first course when Scientology had its period of greatest growth.

    The purpose of auditing is to get you into a euphoric state, which you interpret as a "key out".
     
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  3. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    1. IMO, not really. I think you can get just as much case gain by making a list of the silliest words or made-up words you can come up with and saying them out loud while drunk. (I'm not kidding...and I was trained and worked as a PRO Wordclearer! :roflmao: )

    2. Could be. Could also be poor writing, boring material, want to do something else.

    3. No trance. It's always a good idea to be aware of your environment. There are better drills on Paul's Robot for this, though, and it's free.
    http://scientology.wikia.com/wiki/Paul's_Robot_Auditor

    4. In the end, at least, Hubbard believed everything that came out of his mouth and just made it up as he went. He was in pretty bad shape when he died.

    5. I have no idea, but I'm pretty sure it's better to pay attention to this life and what you can do with it now than dwell on the past.

    6. The Comm Course is okay, but the idea is to get you hooked so you buy the bigger, more expensive stuff that isn't very good. There are better communication courses around than what Scientology offers, though.

    Different people get through stress differently. There's no set rules or formulas for it that apply to everyone.

    Hope this helps. Welcome to ESMB! :welcome2:
     
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  4. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    Hey lightweight and...

    :welcome2:

    Before attempting to tackle some of those questions I would say that while there is some value in some of the lower level stuff, none of it is safe to do in or associated with a Church of Scientology.

    There are a number of reasons I say that. The lies, deception, love bombing, and indoctrination will begin as soon as you walk through their door.

    Perhaps you had no intent to get involved with the organization, and if that's the case then just disregard what I wrote. Perhaps it will serve as a useful warning for someone else lurking here.
     
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  5. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Gold Meritorious Sponsor

    .

    Here are some answers to your questions. . .

    1. is the word clearing you do on the meter (i never did it) any good ie i have heard it was amazing that some weird word comes up and you go back track I guess and find you know it from a different language or lifetime etc. I really don't know the process at all but am curious what is going on there?
    ANSWER: An electronic device is not needed to clear words. There have been dictionaries since 2300 BC and nobody ever once needed an e-meter to understand a word.


    2. when you go anaten or sleepy when reading - what is that? is it really an mu?
    ANSWER: Could be many different things. You're tired. Bored. Didn't understand what you are reading. The material is presented so poorly that it makes the reader sleepy. You aren't interested in learning that material and your mind protests and dozes off---a mild form of unconsciousness that accompanies a painful (engramic) moment lol.


    3. touch assist and locationals - are these putting you in a light trance so you feel better or do they actually make you feel better because you become more awake and cause?
    ANSWER: Many things make a person "feel better". A massage. A sauna. A hot tub. Exercise. A song you love. A great movie. A good book. A delicious meal. A fun conversation with friends. The list is endless. So, I wouldn't put too much importance on why touching a person's body relaxes them. Sex does that too and Hubbard didn't invent that (even at the beginning of the wholetrack, like he invented music, lol)

    4. did hubbard believe all his own shit?
    ANSWER: Hubbard was a narcissistic and avaricious sociopathic with delusions of grandeur. Sometimes he believed he was the messiah "discovering" universal secrets which he unlocked with his "technology". But when his tech "breakthoughs" failed (which every single one of them did from 1950-1986) he just kept promoting his fake miracles--because he loved the money too. Thus, it didn't matter to him whether it was true or not, he "won" either way. See how that works and why (for him) "Scientology is the only game in the universe where everyone he wins"?


    5. is past life stuff all made up and if so why do you get wins on answering a question re a past life thing?
    ANSWER: Why do serial killers get "wins" on murdering and dismembering victims? Why did Hitler get "wins" when he murdered tens of millions of people who he imagined were evil? Why do Jihadi suicide bombers get "wins" when they are chosen to blow themselves up and kill innocent children on a bus? "Wins" are a rhetorical trick in Scientology. If anyone doesn't believe that, try telling Scientology that you had a "huge win" when you realized that Ron lied when he said that a Clear has perfect recall. You will find out that Scientology hates your win and declares you an SP. You are only allowed to have "wins" that are standard and approved wins. Otherwise you are evil and must be destroyed. It's a cult.

    in a
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
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  6. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    I would be extremely wary of doing anything Scientology.

    Even a simple course....such as the Comm Course, starts with some rather major heavy duty full blown Scientology Policy called KSW. Keep Scientology Working.

    In this KSW stuff....the wording is such that one is required to agree that Scientology is the ONLY answer to pretty much anything...

    If anyone regards their word as their bond...and has self respect for themselves and their word.....then agreeing with KSW is tantamount to abnegation (treason) of oneself.

    One in essence is tricked into agreeing to give one's own choices away.....and agreeing to adhere to Scientology and only Scientology, for their choices.

    Of course....it is "only words," but IMO this is something that is very serious and can have disastrous effects down the road....and trying to leave the Cult later in time.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
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  7. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    1. I thought (and think) that word clearing generally is very useful. I did the Key to Life Course, which involved looking up a lot of the smaller words (not using an ordinary dictionary) and learning some grammar, and I found that very useful indeed. I have also found word clearing to be very useful in life, though I've never been fanatical about learning all 38 definitions of the word 'in', or whatever.

    I never particularly found metered word clearing any more useful than ordinary word clearing. Also, I once spent DAYS word clearing stuff like Dianetics: The modern science of mental health, and didn't find that terribly useful. So I would say that word clearing can be very useful when done in your studies and life, but it shouldn't be done fanatically. Also, when I was in the church, I became almost phobic about not going past a misunderstood word anywhere. Shaking that off was of benefit.

    2. Although I am breaking an unwritten board rule by saying this (never say anything that might imply Hubbard knew something about anything), my personal experience suggests to me that MUs DO cause dope off. It was one of the things that made me continue with Scientology in the first place, because I thought 'if this is correct, then everything else must be also'. I would say make your own mind up on this. I was able to make my mind up that it worked from personal experience of myself, and of watching others. Try it yourself. Read a book, and don't bother looking up words that you don't understand. See whether you end up feeling tired and doping off. If you do, then it's probably a valid principle. If you don't, then it probably isn't. Personally, I found the MU phenomenon one of the easier of Scientology's claims to test and validate to my own satisfaction. Having said that, I should mention that, apparently, Hubbard didn't develop study tech - it was a couple of Scientologists who developed it, and he took the glory for it.

    3. I never did any touch assists to amount to anything. I personally found them boring. I was asked to do a contact assist by a Sea Org member at St. Hill one time, when I banged my hand on a door in AOSH. I was like "don't be ridiculous!". I think locationals are another thing you can test for yourself. Just go for a walk, and look at trees, lampposts, etc, and see whether you feel better or worse after 10 minutes of it. I always found that locationals DID put you into PT. But I don't personally think that it's necessary to go on for hours and hours with objectives. Just taking a walk and looking around at nature can be really good.

    4. My personal opinion is that Hubbard believed his stuff as much as any other believer does. By that, I mean, I think that he questioned whether it was working, and convinced himself that it was working, alternately, just like most Scientologists would during their quest for spiritual freedom. The difference is, Hubbard invented this stuff and had told his followers that he is the equivalent of a messiah, so he wasn't being honest with people, whereas the average Scientologist wasn't in that position.

    5. I don't know. I do know that, in Scientology auditing, one is sometimes FORCED to make past life stuff up. Because you are told that unwanted conditions are caused by stuff on your time track, and if it doesn't handle by dealing with this-lifetime stuff, then it must be past lifetime stuff. So you are FORCED to conclude that there must be a past lifetime incident, and that you must find it. By the way, I think the emphasis on past lives is good news for those who have confessed stuff to the church that can be used against them, and then find they have a hate page devoted to them. If the church ever claims "but you said in session that you INSERT CRIME OR DISCREDITING INCIDENT HERE you can always reply by saying, "yeah, but let's put this confession in context - I also claimed in the same session that I was one of Jesus' disciples 30 lifetimes ago."
    I used to TOTALLY belief that Scientology uncovered past lives. But how many people who have completed the OT levels can recall their past lives? Firstly, I would question your thesis that you get wins recalling past life stuff. Do you? How do you know that? Or were you just TOLD that by Scientologists? When you are in Scientology, you will say whatever is the party line, just to be seen as part of the group. I have had OTs tell me they had X, Y and Z OT abilities. But after they leave, they don't hold to those claims.
    If you DO get wins recalling past life stuff, then either it is real, or else there is some other mechanism at play, such as, by creatively mocking up a made-up incident similar to ones that are bothering you, you suddenly get creative power over whatever it is that is bothering you.

    About the TRs (comm course). I found the TRs to be useful. Prior to getting into Scientology, I didn't look people directly in the eye. After the TRs, I did. I went through a phase of being 'too' there (looking too directly and intently into people's eyes), but then relaxed a bit, and found that the TRs were very useful. But to echo other people on this board, that doesn't mean that you should get involved with a church of Scientology. The damage they inflict on people's lives generally outweighs any wins you get from TRs and auditing.

    Look at it this way: hatha yoga can be useful. It can make your body stronger and fitter, help you to relax, and help you to stay healthy. But if there is a cult selling intensive hatha yoga, and promising miraculous gains in your life, oh, but they need ALL OF YOUR TIME and ALL OF YOUR MONEY, then I would say you should stay away from it. That's the situation you are in with Scientology. The lower level stuff gives some wins and gains - for a hefty price tag. But then you are promised OT states that never seem to materialise. And the cost of chasing those states is ENORMOUS. Not only that, but you are told in the meantime that you must drop all other practices, can't read about other practices (such as meditation, spirituality, religion, etc) and so your mind effectively BELONGS to the Church of Scientology while you are a member.

    I find myself wondering whether I should even post the above. Because I feel that there are things in the 'tech' that can be useful in a person's life. If only it wasn't wrapped in a cult, I would find myself saying "yeah, try it out". I mean, if someone said to me, "I'm thinking of learning hatha yoga," or "I might try tai chi", I would say "yeah, go for it". The problem is not really the tech itself. It's the cultic wrapper that it comes in. And the cultic packaging turns out to be thicker than the product inside, in the end.

    If you could just buy a book, teach yourself auditing, and try it with a friend, it would be fine. Do some TRs in your living room. Fine. I suppose you COULD do that. You could find Scn books in the library or online, and just try out the processes. I personally never found that the TRs induced trance. I don't think it's the TRs and auditing that entrance people. I think it's the promise of OT that does that. Once you have been convinced that that is available, you will put up with any amount of degradation and inconvenience to get it.
     
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  8. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    #1

    This is something rather odd in part of your question about Word Clearing.

    I was in the Cult for 27 years and never heard of any word going back "whole track."

    I can't remember exactly where....but Hubbard did say something about some mental trick that the mind did, that, in so many words, converted what ever past language a person used to English. ( did he also mean the native tongue of any Cult Student?)

    If anyone here can remember this little tidbit of Hubbard Spew....I'd appreciate them posting what they can about it.

    Anyway...looking back on this, it does really seem odd. Word Clearing was a this life time only sort of thing...as far as I was concerned. English has very well known roots that are easy to research. Any dictionary would have info about this.

    But this topic goes pretty deep into other Cult Stuff.

    Take for example the Clearing Course or OT II. Hubbard claims that huge lists of certain words ( in English ) are in the mind....that from his research were implanted 76 million years ago! I won't go into detail about this. But, that is rather odd....

    Hubbard never talked about any mental mechanism or memory that would translate the conceptional understanding of a word to the word itself...in different languages...

    Perhaps anyone that is Bi-Lingual could post a bit about how they think about 2 similar things when using 2 different languages...?

    Some in life as in the Cult go deeper into topics than others. I went pretty deep in the Cult...and never came across what you say in #1.

    It is amazing how SHALLOW the Cult think was, about many topics. It kinda just glossed over things.....and called it a Win.


    Edited: Additionally, all the words that Hubbard wrote about that he suggested were in the mind....they were all in American English.

    Are the "Implanted Words" translated to Japanese or Chinese for those people that might be Japanese or Chinese (Taiwanese) that do the Clearing Course or OT II????
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
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  9. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Hubbard believed some of it. For example, he believed that the images, on the book covers, he ordered used in the late 1960s, had hypnotic power over humans and would cause them to buy books and obey him and Scientology. He believed the Sea Org symbol had hypnotic power. Confidentially, he told selected Scientologists that this hypnotic power came from whole track implants and whole track history generally.

    Scientology was going to implant its way to power just as Hubbard believed Christianity did.

    Hubbard certainly believed in his own brilliance.

    At the same time, Hubbard had no problem routinely lying to Scientologists.

    IMO, Hubbard was addicted to the tiny electrical current that flowed from the e-meter, much in the same way as he was addicted to the nicotine from his KOOL cigarettes. One thing for sure, all of his self auditing didn't help him much.

    Maybe this link and its attached links will be helpful.

    http://exscn.net/content/view/178/105/index.html

    Maybe you had a past life? Could be any number of explanations.

    Hubbard told Scientologists that he had uncovered the key parts of the aberration-causing whole track and that his confidential materials would remove the final barrier to becoming "OT" if Scientologists followed his instructions.

    Hubbard made millions and convinced some people to become his slaves but no "OTs" were made.
     
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  10. Bill

    Bill Gold Meritorious Patron

    The TRs, as taught in the "Comm Course" can, certainly, make a person more suggestible. They might even help a few people's communication but that isn't normally the result.

    But the primary purpose of the TRs, in training, is to teach the auditor absolute control over another person. It is fascinating to me that Scientology actually shows you the tricks and mechanisms they will use on you to get all your money and make you think you are getting gains ... and then they do it.
     
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  11. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    Hubbard hated people so much.....

    If there is any truth to his ideas about Implants.....

    I've wondered if he had anything to do with writing the scripts for Implants in the past...
     
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  12. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    And the TR Training for Lying is not offered to the general Public...but only a select few.
     
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  13. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    The whole track MU finding is on Method 1 Word Clearing, where a misunderstood word is taken earlier-similar. I don't think it occurs anywhere else, but he explicitly stated in the M1 materials that MUs from previous lives could come up.

    Also, he did talk about converting implant words into different languages, and said that the e-meter would be the guide to what English (or other language) equivalent gave the best read, as conveying the concept of the item in question.

    I'd love to see a Clearing Course platen in Chinese. Hehehe.
     
  14. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    Oh, I think you are right about the M1 Method...

    I'd forgotten about that. But that is a very specific type of Word Clearing....I believe, if I remember correctly, it is more like an Auditing Rundown action. It is done in a Session type setting. I believe it is only done once.

    The word clearing method in use, say in the Course Room is not like that.
     
  15. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    Wilbur, I has assumed you were new to the Cult...or considering doing some Cult course or starting something.

    It appears now that is not the case....but rather that you have quite extensive knowledge of the Cult, and some of their materials...

    So, what is your intent in asking such a broad range of questions...if you've already been involved as it now seems?
     
  16. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    I feel as though I need to add something to my advice above.

    My words imply that some lower level stuff can be valuable to do, as long as it is not done in a Church of Scientology.

    And while that MIGHT be true, I would NEVER recommend to a friend, family member, or anyone, that they experiment on their own with ANY part of Scientology, either inside or outside the organization.

    I say this because some parts of it, even at the beginning levels, are incredibly toxic and evil, even while seeming to be innocent and valuable.

    Brian Lambert exposed something today on Mike Rinder's blog about the Tone Scale (created by Hubbard) that I missed during my 10 years in, as well as the almost 30 years I've been out now. It really exposes the toxicity and insanity that Hubbard was capable of injecting into his writings, and exposes his own dark side.

    This is MUST reading for anyone even considering the possibility of doing Scientology, or someone already involved but having doubts.

    Here is the link:

    Thoughts on the Tone Scale
    https://www.mikerindersblog.org/thoughts-on-the-tone-scale/
     
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  17. pineapple

    pineapple Patron Meritorious

    I co-audited M1, but never went whole track on it, or even earlier similar.

    If we couldn't F/N a word we looked up, we asked for any MU's in the definition, cleared those, then went back and F/N'ed the original word. Never needed to go earlier.

    However, I did see it done like that in sessions from a few years previous (early '70's). Instead of asking for MU's in the definition, the auditor (a Class VIII) asked for an earlier similar misunderstood word, and sometimes went earlier several times until he got an F/N. He did not go back and F/N the original word, either! But I think this was before "F/N Everything," so that was probably considered okay at the time. (I also saw prepchecks done by this auditor where he left buttons "clean" instead of F/N'ing them.)

    We knew the earlier similar option was there if we needed it, but we never had to use it.

    Yes, M1 is done in session. You fly ruds at the beginning, and the folder goes to the C/S after session. IIRC it can be repeated. That's why I didn't stress too much about finding all my MU's when I did it. It was a prereq for something else and I mostly just wanted to get through it.
     
  18. TomKat

    TomKat Patron with Honors

    I went whole track on M1 and got a great picture of a sea monster disappearing under the waves; decades later I read about some kind of dead sea creature found that looked like what I saw.

    Once the class word clearer took me whole track to the 1930s on the use of the word "mush" which I wasn't familiar with. But recently watching the new TV movie version of Mildred Pierce (during the Great Depression) they were using it just as I remembered.
     
  19. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    Leland,

    Are you referring to the questions on this thread? If so, I didn't start the thread. Just, the way you asked the question made it seem like you thought that I was the OP.

    More likely, you're referring to questions I have been asking elsewhere, in other threads. Er, yes, I had quite a bit of experience in the cult (though I was only really 'in' for a couple of years, plus a bit of time lingering around), and trained up to Class IV, as well as being on staff (most of that time being in the TTC). I also audited the OT levels outside of the cult once I left, which probably increased my familiarity with the tech (though, despite that, I don't really feel like I've been 'connected' to the tech for decades). I've written all of this down in previous threads. Not that I expect you to remember my early threads, but the way you asked the question had me feeling I was being sec-checked as a potential OSA agent, with an inconsistent back-story. Hehehe. In which case, WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES????!!!!!! Hehehe.

    What is my intent in asking such a broad range of questions? (Oh, there, it was the word 'intent' that put me in my I'm-not-auditing-you sec check defensive state of mind.)

    I dunno. Perhaps I've been PDH'd by the CoS and sent here to disrupt the board. (I'm trying to be facetious, rather than sarcastic.) Do the questions I ask seem naive? I dunno. I just ask whatever I feel like asking.

    :)

    (Did I get away with that, or am I rockslamming now? Oh, no, it's more likely to be a still needle, if I'm under the influence of a PDH implant.)
     
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  20. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    Yea, I did. I guess confused due to identical avatar....