How can "mental mass" change depending on sex or race?

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by Francois Tremblay, Sep 12, 2015.

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  1. Francois Tremblay

    Francois Tremblay Patron with Honors

    As I understand it, the e-meter is supposed to measure "mental mass," which is part of a thetan. So everyone, regardless of sex or race, should have the same sort of "mental mass."

    And yet the e-meter is calibrated differently depending on whether the person is male or female, and Hubbard said that “The Bantu doesn't register the same on an e-meter as a white.”

    How is this explained? Did I miss something?
  2. AngeloV

    AngeloV Gold Meritorious Patron

    Dr. Hubbard, through meticulous study and investigation made these discoveries. What is little known is the time it took him to figure out that the "Bantu doesn't register the same on an e-meter as a white" is the time it took him to jot down the sentence on a piece of paper. He simply wrote down the 'fact' and, poof, a 'science' was born.

    Trying to dig into the mind of hubbard to get a better understanding of his drivel is like swimming around the perimeter of a circular pool trying to get to the end.
  3. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    The e-meter is all baloney but .. I understand what you are asking and may be able to help clear up a confusion I see there.

    Hubbard's explanation is that mental mass is matter energy space and time... That is not Theta, per his definition. So it's not that mental mass is a part of a Thetan, so much as it's the remains of accumulated collisions a Thetan has with MEST. It's like the garbage he carries around with him. So since people each have different experiences and ideas... the MEST ( mental mass ) will be different for each. Hubbard then decided that it could be read on a meter as it was addressed by a question... Hence, the need for calibrating. This is his theory... not mine.

    Anyone here, please correct me if I am wrong
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2015
  4. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    No, Francois, he never explained that anywhere.

    AnonyMary, you're explaining Hubbard better than Hubbard explained Hubbard. :giggle: Not sure that's correct as far as Scn goes, though it's certainly more sensible than what the conartist said so it might have well been what Hub meant. He never got into comparing individuals like that, beyond general statements of one person being more massy than another, etc. Francois knows Scn very well and has been around for awhile. He's just puzzling over a discrepancy in written tek.
  5. uncover

    uncover Gold Meritorious Patron

    So are you talking about Body Thetans now ?
    I mean they read on the E-meter ..... allegedly .... (according to El Con Hubbard) :coolwink:
  6. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    Now that I think about it, Sheila, you are probably right... perhaps he never came out with it like that but this is what I concluded from what I studied of his writings... to make meaning out of it all, lol
    It all had to make sense or we would not have gone along with it, right? :D
  7. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    I wasn't but now that you mention it... LOL
  8. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    I am seriously impressed, AnonyMary. :cheers:

    You've come up with something that auditors and OTs might have discussed with each other in conversation. After 9 years in Scn and Sea Org, OT4 and Class V, I'll tell ya, it never occurred to me. I think becoming so used to accepting so many contradictions and fallacies, I just let that one go. You're cool!
  9. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    The "male clear read" versus the "female clear read" got dropped by Hubbard in the early 60s, and as far as I know was never mentioned in an HCOB/tape again by him. Note it didn't appear on the Mark VI or later meters. In other words, he realised that not only was it utter bullshit but that it was demonstrably false. Of course, being Hubbard, he didn't admit that he pulled that "fact" out of his ass.

  10. TomKat

    TomKat Patron Meritorious

    If you can't feel mental mass, then what's the point of even thinking about it?

  11. Francois Tremblay

    Francois Tremblay Patron with Honors

    Oh. Thanks for that Dulloldfart. I didn't know Hubbard had rescinded the different tone arm calibrations for male and female. Well that makes more sense.
  12. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    It's the same thing with the Tone Arm numbers, originally they were supposed to be indicative of the person's Tone Level. LOL. That's why it's called the Tone Arm. :)
  13. Gizmo

    Gizmo Rabble Rouser

    Trying to explain Doctor Hubbard is like trying to use fish to explain oranges - good luck with that.
  14. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    You see this goldfish? That's the same color as an orange, they taste different though! :hysterical:
  15. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    I would get 20 or so reads on one command on OT 2.

    They body thetans?

    Dunno what.

    On OT 3 I would get into very heavy breathing in every session which lasted
    10 minutes after end of session.

    Why? Dunno.

    Great gains on all the above, and have no interest on further "BT" levels.

    What was going on?

    I think Hubbard was on to something but I don't know what.

    Don't think he knew so well iether.
  16. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    Thank you, Sheila :blush: I used to be a substitute academy and Div 6 course supervisor and over the years I had to help students, especially Div 6 students, get through courses. I did lots of spot checks and the basic words like Theta, MEST and such were the most difficult for people to understand conceptually... Repeatedly finding 'MUs" and going over the definitions and such... I think that was where my understanding came from.

    Interestingly, these ideas of Theta and MEST were met with very little disagreement, unlike other things Hubbard wrote which some students insisted he was wrong... As a course sup and word clearer, you are on the front lines of indoctrinating people and helping implant cognitive dissonance, and more so with insisting that any disagreement stems from a Misunderstood Word... I've written before about my thoughts about that post and my experiences and regrets... despite doing so in the name of helping people.

    But the Theta MEST concepts were very hard for many students.. new and not so new, and understandably so.

    Thank you for the kind words :)
  17. pineapple

    pineapple Patron Meritorious

    Regarding the "male" (3.0) and "female" (2.0) clear reads: The way I thought of it at the time was that the meter is measuring the electrical resistance of the body. The resistance is affected by mental mass, but still, the meter is always reading a BODY, not reading the mass directly. It's reading the effect of the mass ON A BODY. Male bodies are denser than female bodies, and so they read differently on the TA, whether affected by mental mass or not.

    It seemed to me at the time that females generally did read closer to 2.0 and males closer to 3.0 when they were F/N'ing. (But maybe it just seemed that way because it was what I expected?)

    I hadn't realized until now that the "M" and "F" markings didn't appear on the Mark VI. I used a Mark V most of the time. The VI appeared toward the end of my watch. I had one but never liked it much, always preferred the V. I used the VI because it looked better if you had the latest (overpriced and over-hyped) thing.

    My negative reaction to the Mark VI was a significant factor in my eventual decision to get out.
  18. Thrak

    Thrak Gold Meritorious Patron

    Here's a tip. Elron wasn't exactly the most honest theetan in the universe.
  19. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

  20. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    AND if the PC works in a chem lab and therefore has chronic dry hands (with high T/A) then you have to try foot plates instead of cans.
    It ain't just gender... it could also be what type of job they do for a living.

    It ain't so-called "mental mass". It is just skin resistance to DC caused by more than one factor. But I suspect you already know this.