How long does it take to feel "normal" again after attesting to clear or OT?

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by renegade, Apr 6, 2019.

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  1. ILove2Lurk

    ILove2Lurk Lisbeth Salander

    Just happened to see this posted on Rinder's blog (a destination I rarely visit):

    Somewhere there’s video of a session at a freezone annual convention* where the participants
    are led through a guided visualization of communicating with aliens, framed as if it is some
    actually “real.” The audience eats it up as if it’s a big “win”; it’s a very bizarre demonstration
    of the true believer mindset.
    * An event that was once reasonably well attended, but appaears to have dwindled to virtual
    non-existence in recent years, like most of the rest of the indie world.
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  2. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on


    Well, for years I have been claiming that I could have written the OT VIII, OT IX, OT X (and above) levels and it would have helped the COS (Crimewave of Scientology) flourish and prosper to unprecedented magnitudes.


    REFRESHER: The OT VII completion would have discovered that he has gone clear in the theta universe ("what a total validation!" they exuded in their videotaped success story). Then they would discover that they needed to go clear on the 6th dynamic.

    It seems that BTs are far more plentiful than previously believed. The MEST universe will not easily surrender to the OTs postulates and intentions if the OT's 6th dynamic (MEST) still has BTs and Clusters. This then becomes the "WHY" and the "HIDDEN INFLUENCE" behind every single arc break, problem, scarcity, enturbulation and loss in the OT's life.

    Whatever is wrong that year, month, week, day, hour or minute---it's being caused by degraded beings and suppressive beings embedded or (gasp!) lurking in the OTs existence within the physical universe. Money for example. Their money flows are stuck, despite the OT having cosmic levels of havingness. The OT, you see, no longer has any BTs or SPs (particularly bad BTs)---but the OT sure as hell might have those degraded/suppressive beings holding down their income by enturbulating the MEST lines upon which money flows.

    I could go on.

    The only impediment to solve when writing a new OT level is to trick a credulous Scientologist into having HUGE HUGE HUGE wins on it.

    This is where OT VIII failed so miserably and unnecessarily.

    OT VIII is stupid beyond belief. Whoever put that together (Ray Mittoff and David Miscavige?) should have taken a job at Walmart instead where their creative talents could have helped them string Christmas lights or stack pumpkins and other festive wins.

    For a multibillion dollar cult, OT VIII was truly pathetic. It derailed the cult train that had been so successful for the decades previous.

    Oh yeah, OT X. MEST itself is only tiny tiny tiny BTs in molecules, atoms, et al. When MEST doesn't have any BTs, the sticky "crazy glue" of MEST is released and MEST becomes extremely easily to control with intention alone.

    See how this could keep blinkless grinning idiots busy for a few more decades?

    This would also align two otherwise irreconcilable contradictions in Scientology---equating being wealthy with being OT. Because any being CAN and SHOULD be wealthy if they have "taken responsibility" to clear out their MEST BTs/SPs. The wealth is "proof of concept" that their postulate/intentions are easily able to move MEST about in favorable ways, thus money flows quite easily to them!

    Humbly tendered to OTkind, the work was free-wheeling, keep it so.
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  3. pineapple

    pineapple Patron Meritorious

    I got the idea that where this was all headed was the eventual realization that MEST actually IS theta, but at a much lower rate of vibration, or a much lower tone, to put it in scientologese. That the walls, the floor, the ceiling, your body, the sun, stars, the whole universe, was just thetans who were playing a role. Presumably at some point they were doing this as a game, but they got so into it they forgot (perhaps intentionally) and now are behaving as if they actually are MEST, a rock or a tree or the sun or whatever. Or maybe there are some very enlightened thetans who still know it's just a game and are doing it just for the fun of it and are laughing at us because we think the universe is real.

    Whaddaya think? Sound good?

    NB: I don't actually believe this, just thought this was what the "Final Cognition" might be. Just before you toddle off to the Funny Farm. :)
  4. rose10

    rose10 Patron

    What was the L where you don't have to answer....I know someone who did one of them and said you just sit there. say nothing....?!
  5. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on


    Scriptural Revelation: MEST is really degraded theta! Surprise ending, right? LOL

    Therefore, particles = beings.

    Ergo, all MEST is reducible to space and its Dense DB Demographics!

    Kind of like an org. Without the Degraded Beings there is nothing to "Keep Scientology Working" on!

  6. Dotey OT

    Dotey OT Patron

    Funny, I vaguely remember something like that but not sure. I certainly remember being startled by an assessment in L12 where the auditor used a sinister tone of voice for the thing, like "EVIL", when assessing the word evil. And combing out of the body all the "beams" that you were hit by people who beamed you. Ugh. Stably exterior from L12, not a chance. I tried, even said yes I was in order to go on.
  7. renegade

    renegade Silver Meritorious Patron

    I heard that too! The auditing was so lightning quick, your meat body could not reply in time.
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  8. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    yah, that's sort of similar to the evolution of the emeter, the mark 8 super quantum, LOL, picks up reads so fast, ROFLMAO
  9. phenomanon

    phenomanon Canyon

    Its the electrodes with the fancy S design of brass on them that makes the big difference with the 8 Super Quantum.
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
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  10. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    oh yes, I just happen to still have those guys, LOL. S meaning scientology no doubt, LOL

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
  11. rose10

    rose10 Patron

    Actually when i used the new meter i could feel tingling in my hands when holding the cans. That was seriously worrying i bet the voltage was increased..
  12. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    How long does it take to feel "normal" again after attesting to clear or OT?

    My Hypothesis:
    Whenever the brain endorphin, dopamine, and/or serotonin effects from auditing wears off.

    There is no such thing as "Clear" or "OT".
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
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  13. renegade

    renegade Silver Meritorious Patron


    I just remembered the ED would tell the reges and recruiters to quickly close public when they were "High" from their auditing. A lot of public would pay up or sign contracts while the endorphins where coursing through their brains, only to regret it later.
  14. The_Fixer

    The_Fixer Class Clown

    "You're Fired!"

  15. The_Fixer

    The_Fixer Class Clown

    My Mum was a psychopaedic nurse back in the late 60s and early 70s. She worked in a hospital in New Zealand where kids who were intellectually handicapped (as it was termed then) that were in the care of the state. Those kids were kept in their own type of hospital system, mostly because there was nothing else out there for them.

    These hospitals have since been dismantled and I am no longer up to date enough to know what has evolved since.

    She used to talk of the kids who were "so bright, they burned out". I now realise she meant certain autistic kids which were to us, was a term we never heard of. We met some of them and many Down's Syndrome kids along with some pretty seriously disabled kids. Made us feel pretty lucky we weren't one of them. But many of them were lovely people, especially the Down's ones, or Mongoloids as we used to know them as back then.

    A good friend of mine in later years used to run a respite hostel for these kids whose parents would leave them in care for a week or to or so whilst the rest of the family had a break and/or went away on holidays. Many of these kids would forget who their family was after a time and it was a pretty devastating experience for their parents.

    Anyway, many parents never came back for their kids again and left them in state care from there. There was no judgement involved, just that they realised the sacrifice they had been making had not been healthy on the rest of the family and really had to make some decisions based on the welfare of the rest of the family. A tragedy in many ways, I guess, many of us are really quite lucky we don't have those choices to make.

    The thing to remember I would think is that many of those kids were happy in their own little world without us trying to show them what else was going on out there or what they could maybe have been.

    Sorry, don't know where this post is going, just thought it would be of interest to some.
  16. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Yeh, I saw some of the grown kids that were raised in state care in Australia, but nowadays, they are mostly in not-for-profit places with specialties in everything from cerebral palsy to muscular dystrophy or whatever. I met some of the parents, too.

    The kids (now mostly grown) were severely limited either physically or mentally or both and I've worked at some of those places. The grown kids were institutionalized, but comfortable, even happy in their environments. They rarely formed bonds with care workers. Most parents didn't come and see them at all, but that didn't seem to matter to them. They had everything they needed and went on frequent outings, too.

    Those parents that did visit regularly went through a great deal of pain and literally sacrificed their lives and marriages for those children, and yet, they weren't a whole lot better off than if they hadn't. It was very sad. I felt badly for those parents. Objectively, I wondered if their sacrifices were really worth it, but love has no price, ya know? Still - honestly, the ones who saw the parents regularly weren't much better off, anyway. These disabled folks were taken care of very well.
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  17. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    At one time I had a very good friend who had cerebral palsy. He appreciated the fact that from day one I spoke to him as though he was a person with perfectly intact cognitive faculties, which of course he was. It always pained me when people addressed him as though he were a moron or a four-year-old child simply because he was physically uncoordinated and had a speech defect.
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  18. The_Fixer

    The_Fixer Class Clown

    When I was growing up in the 60s, you never really saw these kids in public, being kept in institutions.

    So I guess I was lucky in a way that I got to see the other side of life where we were fortunate enough to be relatively normal.
    My friend that I mentioned above once said we as a species seem to only have a 40% chance of arriving into this world as a physically and mentally normal person, yet we do pretty well despite the odds.

    I remember one kid she had. A sole parent had a boy who was 17 who was completely allergic to protein. A very rare condition, I never knew what it was. I think there were only 2 people in the world known to have it. His entire diet was only about 4 things he could drink. This was the first time mum was to take a break for 2 weeks. The boy had the face of a 17 year old, but had the body of a 6 month old baby. He had a few other things wrong with him as well. Mum took her 2 week break and took him back. The last we heard anything of them.

    One of the big reasons why those parents gave up their kids was after their vacation away from them, they realised the impact on the other members of the family. It really depended upon the level of severity of their conditions.

    As you said though, for many of those children it made little difference where they were living. In many cases they did not recognise their family when they came back, which would have been pretty tough to deal with. Those who had a reasonable degree of function had a better chance of being kept in the family.

    As I said, no judgements here, every family is different with what they can deal with.
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
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  19. phenomanon

    phenomanon Canyon

    I never used mine.
  20. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum No clam ID persists in post Axis of Exes orbit

    May sound crazy but by the time I finished my class IV training and my grades I was so electrically hypersensitive that I dreaded being under high voltage lines as it made my skin feel like it was moving in all different directions at the same time with a buzzed up feeling that wouldn't go away till a while after I got away from the power lines.
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