HUBBARD QUOTES WANTED re "religious beliefs" Hubbard Coroner's report re Cremation

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Lermanet_com, Sep 19, 2014.

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  1. Lermanet_com

    Lermanet_com Banned

    THIS MAKES NO SENSE

    Quote from Coroner's report on the Death of L Ron Hubbard (Emphasis MINE) LINK (pdf)

    "Mr Lenske presented writer with a Certificate of Religious Belief as set forth in Government Code Section SS27491~43~ reading in part:
    "I, LaFayette Ronald Hubbard~ declare:

    (1) I am a resident of the State of California and over eighteen (18) years of age~

    (2) Based upon my religious beliefs I object to any and all post mortem anatomical dissections or other autopsy procedures being conducted on my body. Such autopsy procedures would violate my religious convictions."


    I have asked a number of people and no one can supply anything scientological that backs up this religious belief claim...

    A) IT IS A LIE TO CONCEAL EVIDENCE OF A CRIME

    -OR-

    B) IS IT A "RELIGIOUS BELIEF" IN SCIENTOLOGY ??????

    but scientology professes "It is only a meat body" so why object to an autopsy??? (see A above?)

    This claim was sworn as true by Earle C Cooley and Sherman Lenske and witnessed by Pat and Annie Broker...
    I can't recall ANYTHING in Scientology that would preclude an autopsy. What I know of scientology would encourage there being an autopsy...


    ----------------------

    A decade later THE SAME "CLAIM OF RELIGIOUS BELIEF" was used to get Lisa McPherson's body cremated....


    from the "The best place to hide something is right in front of you" department at Lermanet.com


    Thoughts???
     
  2. renegade

    renegade Silver Meritorious Patron

    Re: HUBBARD QUOTES WANTED re "religious beliefs" Hubbard Coroner's report re Cremati

    What happened to his remains? Where is it buried?

    A scn once told me that if a person is not cremated he would hang around until the body was taken care of. Other than that, nothing about autopsy.
     
  3. Elronius of Marcabia

    Elronius of Marcabia Silver Meritorious Patron

    Re: HUBBARD QUOTES WANTED re "religious beliefs" Hubbard Coroner's report re Cremati

    He seemed hold any opinion on the body that was self serving, Dianetics all kinds of claims of healing the body
    then wild swings to meat bodies and the degraded condition of even having one, and the complete disassociation
    of self in his theetan theorys, they all seemed to add up to neglect and disrespect.

    So likely its as simple as neglected health was just real bad PR and possibly criminal neglect on the part
    of those who were charged with their care.
     
  4. Lermanet_com

    Lermanet_com Banned

    Re: HUBBARD QUOTES WANTED re "religious beliefs" Hubbard Coroner's report re Cremati

    " the Church of Satan (CoS) has ruled out cremation for its adherents."
    http://www.maledicta.com/library/cosinfo.html


    Christianity does not condone cremation.
    But religions that believe in cremation also believe in multiple gods and worship idols. LINK


    The Christians body belongs to God.. It is not ours to destroy by cremation or any other way – (Rom.14:8).
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2014
  5. Anonycat

    Anonycat Crusader

    Re: HUBBARD QUOTES WANTED re "religious beliefs" Hubbard Coroner's report re Cremati

    A. It was to hide something.

    My first wild guess would be drugs to aide in mental stability. I have been to Creston, and I can tell you that it's a do-nothing little town far from the streets of not-as-tiny do-nothing towns, but no civilization (except for San Luis Obispo, some distance away), as it's between San Jose and Santa Barbara. Yes, that huge boring expanse, and Creston is inland, making it the tippy top of boring. To me, that is the classic dust bowl that a fugitive on the lam would make their hideout.

    Accounts of his appearance are not good, and tales of boxes of cash brought to him are also interesting. Living in hiding, in Creston, in a mobile home, and being very weird, are indications that he needed to be under psychiatric care, or was. I guess it was his doctor that administered drugs to him, but I've never seen a leak of what all he was taking at the time of his death. Certainly, it would not be acceptable for that to get out, by way of his autopsy, so no autopsy. No meat body testing around here!
     
  6. Elronius of Marcabia

    Elronius of Marcabia Silver Meritorious Patron

    Re: HUBBARD QUOTES WANTED re "religious beliefs" Hubbard Coroner's report re Cremati

    Yeah but this is suposedly master of the universe OT of OT's and now exteriorised and in his full
    native state and all he can do is drop it leave it laying around for someone else to deal with ?

    Gives me the creeps to talk like that about another human being even a nasty SOB
    but those are and were the beliefs in his group.

    If ya talk the talk ya have to walk the walk or be known as a bullshitter right ?
     
  7. renegade

    renegade Silver Meritorious Patron

    Re: HUBBARD QUOTES WANTED re "religious beliefs" Hubbard Coroner's report re Cremati

    Postmortem testing is available nowadays. If someone kept any blood samples, ashes or hair of the deceased, it can be tested for poisons, etc.
     
  8. freethinker

    freethinker Crusader

    Re: HUBBARD QUOTES WANTED re "religious beliefs" Hubbard Coroner's report re Cremati

    It doesn't have to be a Scientological belief but only Hubbards.

    It was a legal move to prevent an autopsy. That is the way I see it.

    Here is that section of the code. It's California Code.

    When you read it you will see it was a legal maneuver to obtain the body and dispose of it as you saw fit.

    Why would cremation be any less abominable than autopsy?

    27491.43. (a) (1) Notwithstanding any other provision of law,
    except as otherwise provided in this section in any case in which the
    coroner, before beginning an autopsy, dissection, or removal of
    corneal tissue, pituitary glands, or any other organ, tissue, or
    fluid, has received a certificate of religious belief, executed by
    the decedent as provided in subdivision (b), that the procedure would
    be contrary to his or her religious belief, the coroner shall not
    perform that procedure on the body of the decedent.
    (2) If, before beginning the procedure, the coroner is informed by
    a relative or a friend of the decedent that the decedent had
    executed a certificate of religious belief, the coroner shall not
    perform the procedure, except as otherwise provided in this section,
    for 48 hours. If the certificate is produced within 48 hours, the
    case shall be governed by this section. If the certificate is not
    produced within that time, the case shall be governed by the other
    provisions of this article.
    (b) Any person, 18 years of age or older, may execute a
    certificate of religious belief which shall state in clear and
    unambiguous language that any postmortem anatomical dissection or
    that specified procedures would violate the religious convictions of
    the person. The certificate shall be signed and dated by the person
    in the presence of at least two witnesses. Each witness shall also
    sign the certificate and shall print on the certificate his or her
    name and residence address.
    (c) Notwithstanding the existence of a certificate, the coroner
    may at any time perform an autopsy or any other procedure if he or
    she has a reasonable suspicion that the death was caused by the
    criminal act of another or by a contagious disease constituting a
    public health hazard.
    (d) (1) If a certificate is produced, and if subdivision (c) does
    not apply, the coroner may petition the superior court, without fee,
    for an order authorizing an autopsy or other procedure or for an
    order setting aside the certificate as invalid. Notice of the
    proceeding shall be given to the person who produced the certificate.
    The proceeding shall have preference over all other cases.
    (2) The court shall set aside the certificate if it finds that the
    certificate was not properly executed or that it does not clearly
    state the decedent's religious objection to the proposed procedure.
    (3) The court may order an autopsy or other procedure despite a
    valid certificate if it finds that the cause of death is not evident,
    and that the interest of the public in determining the cause of
    death outweighs its interest in permitting the decedent and like
    persons fully to exercise their religious convictions.
    (4) Any procedure performed pursuant to paragraph (3) shall be the
    least intrusive procedure consistent with the order of the court.
    (5) If the petition is denied, and no stay is granted, the body of
    the deceased shall immediately be released to the person authorized
    to control its disposition.
    (e) In any case in which the circumstances, manner, or cause of
    death is not determined because of the provisions of this section,
    the coroner may state on the certificate of death that an autopsy was
    not conducted because of the provisions of this section.
    (f) A coroner shall not be liable for damages in a civil action
    for any act or omission taken in compliance with the provisions of
    this section.

    http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=gov&group=27001-28000&file=27490-27512

     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2014
  9. cakemaker

    cakemaker Patron Meritorious

    Re: HUBBARD QUOTES WANTED re "religious beliefs" Hubbard Coroner's report re Cremati

    Per Steve Pfauth (also in Lawrence Wright's book 'Going Clear', Pat Broeker and Miscavige rented a boat and spread his ashes in the Pacific off of Morro Bay according to LRH's request.
     
  10. freethinker

    freethinker Crusader

    Re: HUBBARD QUOTES WANTED re "religious beliefs" Hubbard Coroner's report re Cremati

    If there were anything on being autopsied in Scientology scripture it would be in the Ceremonies and Religious Practices book. It was a maroon leather bound gold embossed and had the sermons and marriage ceremonies; funerals and the infamous We of the Church Believe...

    If it existed anywhere in Scientology it would be in there.

    Unless it was in the R&D series but then it wouldn't be official practice.
     
  11. Lermanet_com

    Lermanet_com Banned

    Re: HUBBARD QUOTES WANTED re "religious beliefs" Hubbard Coroner's report re Cremati


    that is how it looks (Bolded in your comment)

    I just don't understand why this was never challenged,

    If it is NOT even to be found in the millions of words that encompass the FRAUD of the $cientology scam....

    I suppose its just proof that Goebbels was right

    "“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it,
    people will eventually come to believe it.


    The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
    Joseph Goebbels

    The full Goebbels quote above also explains FAIR GAME AND DISCONNECTION....

    and brings to mind this quote 22 July 1984 UK Globe and Mail Title: Hubbard Youth LINK

    "The judge, Mr Justice Latey, said that the tactics used by Hubbard and his helpers are "grimly reminiscent of the ranting and bullying of Hitler and his henchmen".

    This was echoed this week by one disenchanted teenage Scientologist who told The Mail on Sunday that Hubbard's young acolytes "behave like the Nazi youth". "

    -------------
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2014
  12. Lermanet_com

    Lermanet_com Banned

    Re: HUBBARD QUOTES WANTED re "religious beliefs" Hubbard Coroner's report re Cremati

    BINGO : On 1 December 1947, Crowley died... His funeral was held at a Brighton crematorium on 5 December



    sidebar: At Jack Parson's AGAPE Lodge in LA, there was big framed picture of Alestair Crowley in every room of the house...

    Remind you of anything?
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2014
  13. prosecco

    prosecco Patron Meritorious

    Re: HUBBARD QUOTES WANTED re "religious beliefs" Hubbard Coroner's report re Cremati

    There is so much about the events surrounding Hubbard's death that simply don't make sense, although the drugs in his body would only really be an issue to scientologists rather than law enforcement.

    According to the video by Camilla Anderson on Karen delac's You Tube channel, she relays how Annie Broeker told her she called 911 to report the death. Why involve the police/sheriff? This makes zero sense. My understanding that when a death occurs in California when a patient had been under the care of a physician, then it's simply a matter of calling the coroner. Why didn't Gene Denk, who after all was there, call the coroner?

    My personal view is that they didn't really know what to do having been reliant on Hubbard for so long, and almost zero contact with the outside world.
     
  14. Little David

    Little David Silver Meritorious Patron

    Re: HUBBARD QUOTES WANTED re "religious beliefs" Hubbard Coroner's report re Cremati

    I've always thought it odd that if Dr. Denk or someone else had to give him 10 injections of Vistaril in a short time why didn't they give some in the left gluteus as opposed to all 10 injections in the right gluteus. It isn't a large area due to having to avoid hitting the sciatic nerve. Using both sides would have spread them out a little more. My speculation is that the Vistaril was being used as a sedative. Dr. Denk is said to have been living in a trailer next to LRH's motorhome to give him full time MD care.
    [​IMG]
    http://www.newtimesslo.com/cover/2628/l-ron-hubbards-last-refuge/
     
  15. Lermanet_com

    Lermanet_com Banned

    Re: HUBBARD QUOTES WANTED re "religious beliefs" Hubbard Coroner's report re Cremati

    A note for advanced students...

    This is Ron DeWolfe from that 82 Penthouse Interview

    Hubbard: I believed in Satanism. There was no other religion in the house! Scientology and black magic. What a lot of people don't realize is that Scientology is black magic that is just spread out over a long time period. To perform black magic generally takes a few hours or, at most, a few weeks. But in Scientology it's stretched out over a lifetime, and so you don't see it. Black magic is the inner core of Scientology --and it is probably the only part of Scientology that really works.


    Before I went back in time studying hypnosis, suggestion, repetition, etc through history... I went back studying magic. And found that fully 90 plus percent of what is called "MAGIC" and "BLACK MAGIC" is, in fact, varying degrees of suggestion, auto suggestion, and direct hypnosis... Imagine the noteriety some 17th century "Magician" would gain, if a couple of his visitors, when they returned to town, told tales of how this strange man could summon MICE to run across the floor by command!

    [​IMG]

    geddit?

    Now why don't we summon some engrams? or BT's,

    And DeWolfe's statement above "--and it is probably the only part of Scientology that really works." takes on a whole new meaning, doesn't it?
     
  16. Anonycat

    Anonycat Crusader

    Re: HUBBARD QUOTES WANTED re "religious beliefs" Hubbard Coroner's report re Cremati

    If I found a person dead, I'd probably call 911 too. I would not look for a phone book to look up the corner under County. It seems perfectly reasonable to me. As a scientologist involved in a (speculated) cover-up, it's a really bad plan. Best to forge some last request papers, and have a different plan carried out.
     
  17. prosecco

    prosecco Patron Meritorious

    Re: HUBBARD QUOTES WANTED re "religious beliefs" Hubbard Coroner's report re Cremati

    Yes, but Hubbard's death wasn't unexpected and Gene Denk was there.
     
  18. Anonycat

    Anonycat Crusader

    Re: HUBBARD QUOTES WANTED re "religious beliefs" Hubbard Coroner's report re Cremati

    I don't have enough info to comment to how this relates to Anne's call to 911. Karen probably could answer these questions. I have never heard about how expected his death was.
     
  19. Lermanet_com

    Lermanet_com Banned

    Re: HUBBARD QUOTES WANTED re "religious beliefs" Hubbard Coroner's report re Cremati

    Robert Vaugh Young: WHO KILLED L RON HUBBARD


    And I have a page describing how is would have been done to ensure everyone's silence, includes excerpts of the above by Vaughn..based on the Homicide Detectives MMO rule. METHOD, MOTIVE and OPPORTUNITY. Hubbard had to die for CST to gain tax exemption...

    HOW THEY KILLED L RON HUBBARD

    Since writing this 2 additional sources have provided information substantiating this theory, but it is 'heresay'..and no Im not webbing it or posting it now...
     
  20. Lermanet_com

    Lermanet_com Banned

    Re: HUBBARD QUOTES WANTED re "religious beliefs" Hubbard Coroner's report re Cremati

    An oddity noted is the first step.... The lawyers filed an affidavit, and I think Denk did too, but I forgot where the hell I put those...

    Denk stated that he was supplying 3 vials of blood for the coroner's convenience...
     

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