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if disconnection were ended, how would it happen?

The thing Leah, Mike and the people they video on her A&E show keep asking for is for Scientology to stop the practice of disconnection. If that were to happen, how many on lines people would want to get back in communication with their families?

A further question - If they were to allow it, how would it be done? I can't see them unilaterally allowing free communication and reconnection. Personally, I can only see it as a very regulated process - Scientology blocking any negative statements to prevent ship jumping, possibly with conditions like, if you 3p Scientology, your declare is reinstated.

Do you think the staff and hard line public believers in 'good standing" would agree to or participate if the Church would authorize such a scheme?

Rather than how should they implement it ( ie: unrestricted access and communication) how do you think they would be likely implement it?

Mimsey
 
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programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
<snip>
A further question - If they were to allow it, how would it be done? I can't see them unilaterally allowing free communication and reconnection. Personally, I can only see it as a very regulated process - Scientology blocking any negative statements to prevent ship jumping, possibly with conditions like, if you 3p Scientology, your declare is reinstated.
<snip>


That would be a moratorium on disconnection and not an abolishment of disconnection.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Disconnection is a function of SP Declares. SP Declares are a function of CYA for criminal acts, abuse and hiding the hokum. Under LRH it seems to me that the diplomatic "Good Roads, Fair Weather" handling was used more often even if insincere and LRH issued amnesties (with major strings attached). In either case, I think current management has way too much to hide to back off on Declares or Disconnection. The demand for responsibility and disclosure would be too great.

The only fantasy scenario I can remotely imagine where all of this could be turned around is if Shelly came out and got the FBI and the still ins to do a clean sweep, open all the files, all the archives, financial records and made the organization own up to everything, lawsuits, conspiracies, mystery sandwich OT Levels, the works.

I think Shelly could make an honest attempt at treating the staff fairly, setting up retirement plans and reconstituting it into an open fun new agey self help activity. In my opinion it would still be a lot of woo but if it could be defanged and made restitution to victims then it might have a future.

But my money is on a doubling down on Disconnection and an inevitable decline into popcorn worthy madness.
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
The thing Leah, Mike and the people they video on her A&E show keep asking for is for Scientology to stop the practice of disconnection. If that were to happen, how many on lines people would want to get back in communication with their families?

A further question - If they were to allow it, how would it be done? I can't see them unilaterally allowing free communication and reconnection. Personally, I can only see it as a very regulated process - Scientology blocking any negative statements to prevent ship jumping, possibly with conditions like, if you 3p Scientology, your declare is reinstated.

Do you think the staff and hard line public believers in 'good standing" would agree to or participate if the Church would authorize such a scheme?

Rather than how should they implement it ( ie: unrestricted access and communication) how do you think they would be likely implement it?

Mimsey

If it were to happen it would only be as a PR stunt and it wouldn't make any (real) difference to those who have been disconnected from because the real loss doesn't occur when your loved one "disconnects" from you ... it occurs at the very moment they become a scientologist.

I would not accept (back into my life) someone who once disconnected from me but remains a scientologist, I'd let then know that I no longer want to have to deal with a scientologist or any form of scientology partly because I would not trust a word that came out of his or her mouth and life is too short to spend it walking on eggshells and avoiding "certain" subjects.

I suspect many scientologists would get quite a surprise (if they retracted the disconnection) at the reaction of their (previously disconnected from) family members once the initial reunion settled down ... they may find themselves out in the cold with a note handed to them saying "come back when you've left the cult, I'll be waiting for you with open arms (if I'm still alive) and with as much care and assistance as I can provide ... Love always Ma".

I'm not holding my breath, I stopped doing that a few years ago when I finally grew up myself and faced reality.


 

Cat's Squirrel

Gold Meritorious Patron
The real problem here for the CofS is that people on the outside know too much about what it's really like. Disconnection now is as much as anything else an attempt to limit the flow of information which would cause still-ins to question the nature of the cult and what they're doing in it.

In that respect it's like the old Soviet Union, which used to rigidly censor the publications its citizens used to read and inhibit their ability to form contacts with foreign citizens. By the same parallel, Scientology needs a Gorbachev to start a process of glasnost and perestroika, but look what happened to the Soviet Union not long after he came along - it collapsed.
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
The real problem here for the CofS is that people on the outside know too much about what it's really like. Disconnection now is as much as anything else an attempt to limit the flow of information which would cause still-ins to question the nature of the cult and what they're doing in it.

In that respect it's like the old Soviet Union, which used to rigidly censor the publications its citizens used to read and inhibit their ability to form contacts with foreign citizens. By the same parallel, Scientology needs a Gorbachev to start a process of glasnost and perestroika, but look what happened to the Soviet Union not long after he came along - it collapsed.

Scientology would collapse for the same reason which caused the USSR to collapse.

Both Scientology and Communism depended upon unshakable faith. The faith that the current suffering and deprivation is necessary to create a perfect new world in the future for them and their kids to live in. Take that away, and you remove the reason for putting up with deprivation.

How long would Scientology orgs last if they didn't have staff willing to work for essentially free?
 

George Layton

Silver Meritorious Patron
How can you do away with disconnection without altering one of the core beliefs in scientology? Any negative opinions of scientology will affect your eternity. Disconnection is built into the philosophy of scientology.
 

WildKat

Gold Meritorious Patron
Good questions, and responses.

I don't think they can change the policy without addressing the fact that the great LRon might have been WRONG about a few things. I don't see it happening.

The threat of disconnection keeps the bubble intact. Remove it, the bubble bursts.
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
I posted a bit of this on the Leah Remini thread, this is part of a statement by Aaron Smith-Levin.

If 'permission' were ever given that disconnection could cease, it would be the end of scientology as it is now. Pretty unlikely, however tides of people waking up and leaving anyway will have the same end result.


The impact this show has been having in my area has been incredible. I’ve gotten texts and emails from many, many “Scientologists” in the Clearwater area saying they’re hooked on the show and rooting for it to keep succeeding. These are people still in good standing with the Church. I suspect the Church has no clue how many of its “members” are hanging around the fringes because they’d rather not lose family, but otherwise, would be long gone by now.

At this point, if I were the Church, I’d probably be paranoid that anyone who is not on course each week is under-the-radar and disaffected. That’s a LOT of people. Something tells me that life is about to get harder for local “Scientologists” who are not on course.

I’ve heard from other former Scientologists who have never been declared, who hadn’t wanted to speak publicly before, but after watching a few episodes decided they wanted to lend their voice to informing the public about the harm Scientology does to families.
http://tonyortega.org/2017/01/03/to...ow-families-get-so-screwed-up-in-scientology/
 

Demented Hubbatd

Patron with Honors
I do not see an end of the disconnect policy because it was put in place by Hubbard himself. Unless Miscavige goes compassionate, the disconnect policy will continue. A better question would be this -- can Miscavige reacquire human characteristics?
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
How can you do away with disconnection without altering one of the core beliefs in scientology? Any negative opinions of scientology will affect your eternity. Disconnection is built into the philosophy of scientology.


Exactly.

In theory they can't cancel disconnection, they can only pretend to cancel it and the "parishioners" would be told to play along (or else) via cult "encouragement" which would mean that rejected family members would suddenly start to receive communication (for want of a better word) from those who disconnected from them ... and be expected to behave and STFU ... due to being so very grateful for the cult graciously allowing the re-connection.

What a joke. For me it would just be adding insult to injury ... I'd rather die "cold, alone and in the dark" as I was once told I would by a certain scientologist who worked so hard to have my children disconnect from me and who is very lucky that I haven't named and shamed him ... yet.

 

WildKat

Gold Meritorious Patron

Exactly.

In theory they can't cancel disconnection, they can only pretend to cancel it and the "parishioners" would be told to play along (or else) via cult "encouragement" which would mean that rejected family members would suddenly start to receive communication (for want of a better word) from those who disconnected from them ... and be expected to behave and STFU ... due to being so very grateful for the cult graciously allowing the re-connection.

What a joke. For me it would just be adding insult to injury ... I'd rather die "cold, alone and in the dark" as I was once told I would by a certain scientologist who worked so hard to have my children disconnect from me and who is very lucky that I haven't named and shamed him ... yet.


But I think the time for "name and shame" is upon us. If you were to "let her rip" would you stand to lose anymore than you already have?

Don't mean to put you on the spot....I guess I'm asking this question of myself, you, and anyone else who has info not released.
 

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Churchill

Gold Meritorious Patron
Related question: How would a scorpion go about performing self-surgery to remove it's stinger?

ideas, anyone?
 

Knows

Gold Meritorious Patron
It can't and won't ever end.

In fact, KSW just needs to say it -

If anyone is nattering about "Going Broke", "Being Regged", "Regrading the Bridge over and over and over and over and over and over and over...
"Shattered Dreams", "losing family and friends", "Being Broke", Suppressed, oppressed, depressed and majorly fucked up in the head,
"In Confusion and Can't GET OUT", bitching about COB, LRH or Scientology ...that the tech is not working etc.

You just better disconnect or else you are fucked for eternity cuz Scientology won't work.
 
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TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Good questions, and responses.

I don't think they can change the policy without addressing the fact that the great LRon might have been WRONG about a few things. I don't see it happening.

The threat of disconnection keeps the bubble intact. Remove it, the bubble bursts.

It is an interesting exercise to imagine Scientology populated by people who know the truth about everything and are free to discuss it.

It would probably be a mix of security guards who participated in Baby Watch and RPF incarcerations and people who believe in Xenu and enjoy auditing BTs.

Now there's a plot for the Syfy Channel.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
I want to point out, for our never-ins, that Disconnection in Scientology is fundamentally different from shunning as it is practiced in other groups for one salient reason: The E-Meter

Imagine if JWs used lie detectors on everyone. Even someone who had not been in contact with the church or any other JWs in good standing for years or decades and then they decide to go back for some little thing. They get put on a routing form to get them started on their service and one of the first requirements is a lie detector test which includes questions about if they have been researching JW on the internet, made critical comments or associated with apostates or any excommunicated JWs. Fail the test and you get called before the Tribunal of Elders.

Even if the lie detector doesn't work, all that matters is that you believe it works and confess.

This is the life of a Scientologist - knowing that some day, eventually, they will be on an e-meter and the needle will make a little tick or sweep across the dial and the auditor will say, "That! What's that!" and because Scientologists are so ingrained to tell the Church everything they will have to spill their guts and get called before the Ethics Officer which may likely result in a demand for many more hours of much more intensive sec-checking (Security Checking, interrogations on the e-meter) for which they will be charged full rate.

Leah did sec-checks for months and was charged something like 300k.

Scientology is in effect an incarnation of Orwell's Ministry of Truth and they are looking for thought crime with a machine that Scientologists believe can read their minds.
 
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