If you were in the cult for a long time, please reply.

Discussion in 'Life After Scientology' started by Pooks, Aug 5, 2011.

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  1. Pooks

    Pooks MERCHANT OF CHAOS

    I rarely start a thread these days that involves the Scientology mindfuck. I mostly post leaks or my ever cynical opinion on all things Scientology.

    My question is to the long term Ex Scios that are working or have worked their way out of the Scn mindfuck.

    Have you done it? Are you able to recover from this experience of being a long term cultist or are you fucked up about it.

    I was diagnosed with PTSD. I spent some time in therapy but my fucking shrink was a fatty that obviously suffered from sleep apena as he kept falling asleep during our "sessions". LOL!

    Oh well, such is lfe.

    But honestly, have any of you that was once long term Scios, undergone some kind of therapy that has actually helped you regain yourself without all the PTS D shit.

    Warning: If you say you found the answer I will suspect you of moonbattery.


    PS: Fuck OSA
     
  2. Lulu Belle

    Lulu Belle Moonbat

    That's a really hard question. Personally, I find it pretty impossible to answer. That experience is a part of who and what you are now. How can you really truly separate yourself out from it?

    One thing I can say is that I missed out on a big piece of my life. During the time I was in the Sea Org, I missed out on all the "normal" things people do in their twenties and thirties, including having children. No matter what I do or what I "fix" I will never get that part of my life back.
     
  3. Pooks

    Pooks MERCHANT OF CHAOS

    Thanks Lulu,

    Your answer was in fact helpful. I love ya, sista.

    P
     
  4. Awake

    Awake Patron

    I have been out for about 5 yrs now, having been in around 25 yrs. During these 5 years I have been all over the place as far as what I believe and don't believe about Scn and LRH.

    For quite a while my attitude was DM was the evil one, and but for him, everything would be hunky. As I continued to read items on the 'net, my attitude gradually evolved. But for quite some time even then I did not come to terms with things I would read about LRH.Trying to reconcile the bad with what I thought was good.....made me crazy!!! But, now that I've fully realized that LRH was a complete con man and didn't give a shit about any of us - I feel a sense of peace that I haven't had since leaving the church. (It's my item!)

    Finally coming to a decision supported by facts (and not just what I wished was true) about Scn and LRH is what changed things for me.

    Still feel bad about being stupid and losing so much of life to the church, but can't do anything about that now and might as well let it go....
     
  5. Anakin Skywalker

    Anakin Skywalker Patron with Honors

    I love your PS! Mind if I use it?

    As for your question, it still sits in my mind constantly. I actually still have dreams that I'm in a staff meeting being treated like a soldier! I can't get it out of my head :duh:

    I'll be flat on it when I stop thinking about it. For now it still remains too interesting! (It's been two years since I decided to leave scientology for good)
     
  6. Your comment about your shrink reminds of the one where a guy walks into a shrink's office and says..."Nobody will talk to me." The shrinks calls out.."Next"....Seriously, I joined FOCUS and went for three years. I was totally free from Snotology after that. FOCUS fortuitously broke away from CAN just before Hubbard's Whores to it over.
     
  7. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Well, I never felt particularly bad about my involvement with Scn, so there isn't much to recover from at all in terms of emotional trauma. I was never involved with screwing people over with crush-sell regging etc. during my Scn life, almost entirely in the SO 1972-1996, and had very little face-to-face unpleasantness to deal with. In terms of ideas to toss out, there's been a fair bit of churn over the past ten years, but again, it's just ideas, no sticky emotional stuff to accompany them.

    So, sorry. :)

    Paul
     
  8. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    Pooks, my Lovely, that's a very brave and good question.

    My final years in $cn were a "mind-fuck" . . . the usual drama of wrong indications, false accusations all the while over the top of screwy application of tech by those who insisted on "sec checking" me.

    Three abusive comm evs plus B of Reviews to try and get it right didn't help either.

    So for those who seem to have the idea that I'm "for" $cn in any way . . . boy do you have it wrong.

    Pooks, my handling, fortunately, was that I never doubted myself. I stuck to the truth of who and what I knew myself to be . . . even in the face of the darkest hour and when under the most massive of BPC and most dire threat from those who were mishandling me.

    One of the two key things that saved me was that I knew the tech point that behind "psychosis" are wrong indications . . . and boy does the Cof$ specialize in that practice.

    ANd of course, in my view, the whole PTS tech thing designation is a bunch of crap . . . as is the failed tech of "SP handling" . . . . for if the SP/PTS tech actually worked, there would be no need of disconnection or the other stupid handlings they have for "PTS" types.

    So lifting off all of the wrong items, wrong indications/assertions put on one, all of the wrong whats and conditions, wrong answers, etc., of the screwy tech . . . each of these things needs spotting and correcting.

    Doing a general "what happened in $cn" doesn't get it done.

    One very good process that can help, is recalling when things in one's life were going well. The question asked of the person is: "When were you happily doing well?" Or something like: "Have you ever been very happy and doing well? . . . When was that describe it."

    Then the next question is key: "Then what happened?"

    And let them get it all off their chest. It's that change point from doing fine to crash that you're after, and the what was the introduced change or cause of crash.

    This above is one that Alan Walter had frequently used to good result.

    The other thing I did to salvage myself was that I found and used some correct tech to rectify and handle all the screw-ups of $cn.

    I investigated Alan Walter's stuff, and found it to be accurate and to deliver what was needed in terms of both tech for correcting the mind-fuck of $cn, and in terms of advancing my condition of existence in the direction I wanted.

    In essence, Alan has corrected the errors that are in $cn and his material enables one to achieve what most of us were after and initially thought we'd get from $cn.

    The other thing to say is this. In my observation, many folks ended up in states of Being and with conditions of case or conditions of existence which are not correctly understood and which too often have been mislabeled. This causes tremendous strife.

    An example was given in my recent posts on the thread Tech Corrections and Advances I started.

    Example: one can have an ascension doing all kinds of practices, but the ascension boots one up into a condition one is unfamiliar with . . . and when these states are mishandled as they routinely were in $cn . . . real shit occurs.

    In my observation, all the undesirable changes introduced by $cn can be reversed . . . and the desirable changes and wins, if any, can be fully realized and empowered.

    Alan Walter did develop that tech.

    RogerB
     
  9. frhidden

    frhidden Patron with Honors

     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2011
  10. GoNuclear

    GoNuclear Gold Meritorious Patron

    You need not have been in the cult for a long time for mindphug to set in. Furthermore, there is a gradient scale of mindphug.

    I was in for 7 years, and still suffer. In my case, the angle that the mindphug came at me was more indirect. I was in a high stress job situation almost the entire time I was involved with Scientology ... Navy that is, nuclear program/submarine duty ... and then a new construction command, which I found to be far, far, far worse than going out to sea half the time. Instead of doing something that would have been revitalizing, like spending my off time at the gym or just vedging out ... I would get off one high stress situation and go to another one. That was a burn out. Scientology never gave me anything back after awhile. It got to the point where I detested being on course, being at the mission, being constantly redged, etc. Eventually I wanted it all to stop, and, the trouble I pulled in came at me first from the Navy side and then from the Scientology side.

    As much as I detest regular job situations, as much as I hate taking bullshit from bosses, as much as I hate seeing withholding tax coming off the top of a paycheck, as much as I detest putting up with political correctness, as much as I detest, hate, and feel degraded and dehumanized by having to piss in a bottle on demand, as much as I like not having to do any of those things working for myself ... I regret not having done my 20 out in the fleet. I don't blame Scientology for that, I blame myself for letting my situation get the best of me, for not sitting down and doing a real evaluation of things and simply dropping my association with Scientology, which, as I said, was giving me nothing back ... just burning me out.

    I don't know exactly why it is that I don't get along with regular job situations since getting out of the Navy a long time ago ... I tried several, the longest I lasted was 18 months. I don't know what contributed more ... Navy, Scientology, or other factors. All I know is that I found myself feeling totally burnt out and unable to function and just wanting to get away. After hitting that burnout once, it was easier to hit it again and again ... usually after 2 months on a job, and mainly that was selling promo's out of telephone boiler rooms, known by those who worked them at the time as WATS line operations, WATS standing for wide area telephone service.

    Eventually, I wound up on the street and was recruited by Gospel Missions of America, where I did fund raising. It was restful and I was good at it, not a burn out. Some would call it pan handling. Eventually I was ready to move on from there, go back to school, get into programming and eventually what I do now which is day trade FOREX.

    Scientology chewed me up and spit me out and then invited me back, but by that time the damage was done. I was not interested in going back after I was chewed up and spit out, inspite of the red carpet rolled out for me I simply went thru the motions from time to time until I was told to get lost. Scientology wasn't the worst burnout, the worst burnout for me was the phone. If I have a bad dream about doing something I really don't like doing, it is finding myself all alone with nothing but a desk, a phone, and a stack of lead cards to call.

    Pete
     
  11. frhidden

    frhidden Patron with Honors

  12. smartone

    smartone My Own Boss

    I was in for 24 years. Out for nearly 3 years. I was always public and the scientology mindfudge hasn't affected me it seems.

    The only thing I had to handle once I was out was some sort of anxiety condition. I found out from my doctor that I was experiencing Anxiety Attacks and had been as well during my time in scientology which had never gotten handled.

    My doctor gave me a low dose tranquiliser and it cleared up my Anxiety Attacks within a week and I haven't had any since.
     
  13. Mystic

    Mystic Banned

    After 35 years and thousands upon thousands of hours of tech, both as an auditor and PC/PreOT/OT and all that, I found the end of the bridge. No emotional trauma on leaving.

    I had left "the Church" a decade before that...well, no, the church left me.

    My final "cognition": All this (Scientology, the tech, auditing, etc.) is either an absurd futility or a futile absurdity, both apply.


     
  14. scooter

    scooter Gold Meritorious Patron

    "In" for thirty, out for nearly 3. Still sorting out the mess.

    For me, it's been therapeutic to:

    a) read what others have been through and what they've discovered has helped them

    b) read critiques of the Hubbard paradigm from those who've dissected bits of it (like Gerry Armstrong's wife's stuff on Soul Stealing)

    c) read stuff on cults in general and just read stuff on anything that takes my fancy - Hubbard had something authoritarian to say about EVERYTHING so it's good to get real info instead of the "I am the God of All Knowledge so worship me you DBs"

    and d) have lots of time to myself (like driving a large truck long distances in the middle of the night) to think quietly about stuff.

    I ted to come up with a Hubbard "stable datum" like "you always get what you postulate" and work it over, see if it is true or how much of a con it was and how he used it to entrap us.

    My latest mulling for example has been over the "Don't do anything illegal" from TWTH - it seems to me now that it was written from the viewpoint of "don't do something 'they' can get you for because 'they' will, you know. 'They' are all evil out there."

    So then I go looking at what would be a REAL thing to put in its place, something that does actually help me and others and does work.

    In the case of "don't do anything illegal," I decided that, if I want to be a part of this society and benefit from it, I should follow the rules because that makes agreement and harmony with the decisions and actions of the majority of my fellows. The rule of law is a cornerstone of a civilized society and I want to support that, not undermine it. This planet is my home too and I like an orderly, peaceful home.

    I'm constantly having bits of "tehc" and "bilegreen-on-grey" float into my head and I examine them. I dunno if this is a normal reaction or not, but I take advantage of it and the time I have to chew mentally on them, a luxury life in the cult never allowed.

    I dunno if one ever gets to the end of it all and says "I'm fully recovered now" - I just think it's a part of life's journey and I need to turn it into something educational for me.
     
  15. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Gold Meritorious Sponsor

    Hey, I don't know. But...

    A lot of things can work a to make it better.

    I think one of the best lessons I ever learned in life was that a LOSS doesn't necessarily get any better by dwelling on it or trying to handle it.

    It does get better when working on something new that is POSITIVE in any way.

    Hubbard's paradigm was dedicated to riveting ones mind on the past and losses and pain. Constantly looking for relief thru ever-closer examination of the unfortunate moments of suffering, engrams, secondaries, implants, etc.....

    Now I know that Hubbard ALSO said things that were the complete opposite of that, but it matters not because Scientology--at it's essence--it a cruel system of demanding that a person become something they can never become. And with every failure blaming that individual for not reaching such impossible goals. (clear, ot, exterior, in-ethics, full responsibility, knowing cause, totally free....)

    Where is all this going? I am not sure to be honest, I am just the writer letting it take me wherever it wants. (seriously)

    So!

    I once had a devastating marriage breakup. Jesus, I was sad. I moped. It was awful. Then one day I saw a girl with perfect breasts wearing a very thin, tight red sweater. I asked her out. At that moment I was not so sad any more. My new life had started. I actually felt a little excited and good about the future. What a dramatic shift!

    What the hell am I talking about?

    Hope. The hope that there is something good in the future and a way to get there.

    The opposite of digging into the morbid, rotted remains of the past.

    So what is my advice?

    Don't do ANYTHING to fix the failed adventure called Scientology. It was a treasure hunt that didn't find anything. So?

    Get another treasure map, another wacky quest (small or large) or adventure or venture or really ANYTHING....and try it and see if it is interesting or fun. If it isn't, trash that one too and look for another.

    Well, that works pretty well, just having something else to look forward. But sometimes you have to actually LOOK for new things that are interesting to you because they are good at hiding.

    Sometimes they hide right in front of your eyes.
     
  16. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    If I hadn't lost my babies (to cultic thinking) I think I would agree with HH that you don't need to do anything, just find something new and wondrous because that will kind of replace the real or apparent loss.

    Actually, I still agree with that viewpoint but nothing will ever replace my little ones and the truth is, I don't want it to.

    Good thread Pooks (shame it made me cry!).

    Lol.

    :eyeroll:
     
  17. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    Great OP, Pooks. I like the replies too.

    I was in for 34 years and celebrated my 3rd Anniversary out yesterday!
    I guess I'd been on my way out for some time but the 5th August, 2008, was the day I decided to "burn my Bridges". I registered and made my first post here on ESMB.

    How am I doing with it? Pretty good thus far, I feel that it is all part of my journey and that there's no real point in pretending otherwise. I'm happy, healthy and enjoying life. I look forward to each day and have hopes for the future. I have a wonderful wife and family and great friends around me. Life is good.

    There's more to it, of course, but for now I'm just taking each day as it comes and making the best of it. That seems to be working for me.

    Thanks for asking. :)
     
  18. chuckbeatty

    chuckbeatty Patron with Honors

    Pooks,

    I think the ex cult pros, Steve Hassan, Rick Ross, the people who run that camp in Colorado, it DOES take talking with smart understanding fellow ex members, to simply "duplicate" the mindfuck Catch 22, damned if you do, damned if you don't, TRAPS of the Hubbard staff and parishioner predicaments that inevitably happen to anyone who sticks long enough with official Scientology.

    I myself, think that not ONLY duplicating what the ex members is screwed up by, the Hubbard Catch 22 vindictive irrational paranoid fears of Hubbard himself, turned into rules that BLAME the staff, BLAME the parishioners making it THEIR fault, and just blowing that to pieces, for the ex cult victim, I think a psych would be helpful giving "correct indications."

    Ex members, to me, I got the good cop, bad cop, "therapy" of ARS, you Pooks, Tory were the "good cops" and Skip Press, et all were the "bad cops" picking my major Hubbard-idiocies to pieces.

    Pooks, reading is what I urge people to do, and to look at smarter wiser people OUTSIDE the whole damn Scientology scene, and compare just how close minded the whole Scientology people are.

    My favorite books that just blow Hubbard to pieces:

    "Fads and Fallacies" by Martin Gardner. 1956 is the latest edition. The chapters on Hubbard, and the early chapters that put Hubbard in context, are must reads to see just how much of a total "crank" fraud, Hubbard was.

    It makes my skin sort of crawl when people give Hubbard the "genius" label for Hubbard's lifework.

    Scientology's still a UFO "cult", and it's science fiction voodoo exorcism of dead space alien souls with their "R6 implants" that leech into our heads.

    Mental health issue, I tell people who call the 866-XSEAORG line, to see their local social agency people who mostly are Grad Student trained, for advice where to get psych care.

    And I tell people to keep looking, to find the best psych they get along with! The social workers know what is available at no or low cost.
     
  19. jenni with an eye

    jenni with an eye Silver Meritorious Patron

    Great post. :thumbsup:

    Lots of love

    Mrs P :love15:
     
  20. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    I was actually thinking about this question this morning – do you ever get over it?

    It’s going to be different for each of us and IMO largely dependent on the degree that scientology values became your own without complete awareness of that. If you had a life before, then there is something to compare to and if you didn’t then the path out is a lot longer. Those of us who were in the SO or GO/OSA have it harder, as in order to survive in those environments you really had to shut down critical thinking.

    My own recovery is a long and difficult one even though it was the late 80’s when I knew deep inside scio was never going to work for me. A lot of this is to do with going in so young (14) when life values are formed and also being part of a scientology family. The hardest concepts to come to terms with have been those of self esteem, worth and ability. Somehow those screwed up core values need to be identified and honestly examined with the help of someone else.

    I don’t know a lot about PTSD but certainly “traumatic stress” is totally true for what many have endured. The only outside help I have had was simple counselling last year and the greatest relief I gained was when my counsellor sat there with eyes wide with shock and jaw hanging open saying “WTF?” at some story I told her! (So much for TRs!) What happened to me wasn’t normal and even though I may have accepted that on a logical level, her reactions were on an emotional one and exactly what I needed to see and hear. Her genuine shock and outrage on my behalf really helped me to get certain things into perspective and she encouraged me to start my blog, which has also been very therapeutic.

    Scientology will always be a part of my life simply because it is also my family’s life and tends to sock me in the face every time I turn around. That is not going to change, as every close family member has been affected and even if they are “out” they may not...well do not in most cases....even have an inkling of how their thinking is still screwed up in some areas. However it’s not the whole of my life, and each and every day is a step closer to more self confidence and success in other areas.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2011