What's new

I'm predjudice.

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Aw, there are a few posters here that fit the bill of an arrogant asshole claiming to have left the building but - in reality - they are in the mind fuck of a devotee.

That ain't going to be changed by anybody but the person themself. So what ? There are many many fine people here - and elsewhere - to enjoy the company of.

Let's party !

I think not having a membership in CofS and not contributing to this organization counts for much.
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
Not always and not exactly. There's a wide range of beliefs amongst Indies and FZers. They do a lot of cherry picking. I was far from the only one who did that.

Much of what gets deleted/ditched are policy stuff- RPFing, routing forms to get out, freeloader debts, enforced disconnection, that sort of thing. Last I noticed, those things were considered a rather big deal and were major topics of criticism re Hubbardism.

That's a very nice hat you're wearing.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Tick one box. If you tick more than one box, your choice in invalid. If you tick less than two boxes, your choice is invalid. If you tick none, you are invalid.

1. The previous post was stupid ( )

2. That's a nice hat you're wearing. ( )

You forgot choice #3.

Blow me.

Actually, I think a person would have to be incredibly stupid or ignorant (or both) to say CofS and the Indie scene were exactly the same or mostly the same.

There's plenty to criticize in non CofS Scn, but including things that aren't the case, disregarding the sorts of things I described then calling that stupid- is willfully ignorant and will only serve to make that person look like a moron.

HTH.
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
You forgot choice #3.

Blow me.

Actually, I think a person would have to be incredibly stupid or ignorant (or both) to say CofS and the Indie scene were exactly the same or mostly the same.

There's plenty to criticize in non CofS Scn, but including things that aren't the case, disregarding the sorts of things I described then calling that stupid- is willfully ignorant and will only serve to make that person look like a moron.

HTH.

Unfortunately your choice is invalid.*

*But I still like your hat.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Why do you two go at each other? :confused2:

I really don't get it.

I mean, Smilla, your recent posts on this thread ARE funny. The two choices above between "the above post is stupid" and "that's a nice hat. . . " had me falling off my chair. But, to me, the humor was sort of misdirected.

Claire more than recognizes the many lunacies of Scientology. She is NOT a defender of all things Scientology. It IS true the the great majority of the abuses have a DIRECT link to behaviors of the organized official Church of Scientology.

Yes, the abusive behaviors ARE based on the strict application of certain Scentology ideas, BUT not all people "out there" choose to accept some of those ideas and also choose NOT to apply them. There really is a difference, and it is NOT minor. I am GLAD for the difference.

Claire is tolerant of the views of others, as long as they don't hurt anybody (including some or many people who practice some limited version of Scientology while totally disconnected from the Church organization).

It really ISN'T all "black or white". :no:

And, I side with tolerance - as long as the "they" are not hurting anybody.

It is true that people who leave the Scientology organization often still carry around a great many nutty ideas. But, so do my Baptist neighbors, and they don't hurt anybody, and they are happy to help when I need something. I DON'T care when certain people accept and believe STUPID SHIT, because MANY people do that on Earth, and again, as long as they are NOT hurting anybody along the way, I give them a break. Ideas and actions are two separate things, and while often related, it is a good idea to keep that in mind.

Now, Marty and his gang of close followers are something else. There seems to be some agenda there, and it rubs me very much the wrong way.

But all "indies" are not "Marty Indies".

Differentiate. It is good for the human conceptual thinking processes.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Tick one box. If you tick more than one box, your choice in invalid. If you tick less than two boxes, your choice is invalid. If you tick none, you are invalid.

1. The previous post was stupid ( )

2. That's a nice hat you're wearing. ( )

...

Tick one box. If you tick more than one box, your choice in invalid. If you tick less than two boxes, your choice is invalid. If you tick none, you are invalid.

1. The previous post was stupid ( )

2. That's a nice hat you're wearing. ( )

3. There's one box above I'd like to tick but
when I think about doing that I get a nervous tick. (X)
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
But all "indies" are not "Marty Indies".

Differentiate. It is good for the human conceptual thinking processes.


But, but ... where is the fun in that Gaddy?

:coolwink:

I'm ever so sorry but, for me, actually being a scientologist involved quite enough madness for one lifetime and now that I'm free I'm not going to waste my time trying to differentiate between levels of insanity with the bloody Indies!

Every last one of them is a BT hunting, tubs loving nutter (well, apart from a couple).




:thankyou:
 

Lucretia

Patron with Honors
When's the last time you saw a churchie picketing or protesting? Lots of Indies are doing that.

When's the last time you saw a churchie doing their own thing, blowing off class, mixing methods? Indies do it all the time.

Have we somehow missed the high prices, inward facing spikes, freeloader debts and RPF camps in the Free Zone, hmmm?

Maybe they disconnected from you because of your attitude. You feel sorry for them. Although they don't do about 99% of the shit DM does, you feel they're the same. Can you really expect everyone to want to be around someone who opines thus? I mean, I have no problem with associating with whomever, but there are times when, I will eventually cut someone loose if I just can't ever enjoy their company or feel I could trust them.

Your post is imprecise. You could have said you thought there was a similar mindset, or you don't like Hubbard's ideas, find them limiting, think it's a problem if someone's still interested.

But instead, you've written commentary that seems to state that you think they're the same. Even though they have no staff contracts, freeloader debts, high prices, RPF, centralization, murders, isolation watches. Why not criticize people for what they're actually doing rather than imply they do things they don't do?

I wonder what you'll do next time you picket and a Freezoner shows up. Happens all the time. Would that create a sense of cognitive dissonance?


Jeez, are you this nice to everyone Claire?

What annoys me more than anything on this board is ex's thinking they are somehow superior to the guys who are still in the thrall of the mind fuck. Maybe I didn't make myself clear. All ex's were doing what current $cns think is the correct way to be. I don't think any one is evil. I do think the tech is evil. And I don't think you can cherry pick it, which the indies seem to believe they can do. How can you say the the MWH tech is OK but the admin tech is a load of crock, or the ARC triangle is gods gift to mankind but disconnection is antisocial. It all came from the same twisted mind. It all serves the same warped purpose, and that is purely and simply to control minds. Saying some of it is OK is like trying to pull chocolate chips out of dog shit. You may get the chocolate chip, but it's still covered in dog shit and indies are still wallowing in dog shit.

I assume you have read the Milgram experiments

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

It is very illuminating. It proves, in a nut shell, that anybody, given a "good" enough reason will inflict life threatening electric shocks to another person for their own good. Apply this to the way the cult ran our lives. We are not unusual or special or anything - we just happened to get hooked and we thought we were doing the right thing. Even poor Jan Eastgate, who I know, and who I think is a decent human being. As I have said in another post, $cn makes monsters out of anybody and everybody. It is evil.

And for your information, I was not sympathetic to my indie ex-friend. Far from it. In fact I am not sympathetic to any of them, but I do feel some compassion for them, having been in the same situation myself.

If that's cognitive dissonance, whatever the hell that is, then I revel in it.

And by the way, if the indies are out protesting against the current $cn set up, it is only because they want to replace one mind fuck with another. The day this planet is free of every molecule of the Hubturds crap..well it can't come too soon for me.
 
You forgot choice #3.

Blow me.

Actually, I think a person would have to be incredibly stupid or ignorant (or both) to say CofS and the Indie scene were exactly the same or mostly the same.

There's plenty to criticize in non CofS Scn, but including things that aren't the case, disregarding the sorts of things I described then calling that stupid- is willfully ignorant and will only serve to make that person look like a moron.

HTH.

Yes but are you being precise enough Claire?
Will it really make that person look like a moron? When was the last time you looked at some morons? Were they all the same? If so, then you are half way there, but even morons have different gender, hairstyles, clothes etc, even if they did, hypothetically resemble each other in facial features etc. There are many different looks in the moron subset, so if someone was said to look like a moron, you'd have to say which one. This is fair and objective and rational. Just as you constantly ask for fairness for indies with your lifetime mission of lecturing clumsy complainers on the minutiae of differences between individual indie-scientologists (I hope that is an allowable term) and the differences between indies and COS scientologists. So. all I'm sayin' is morons is different and it behooves you to do the fair thing and be precise by not implying that "a" moron is a constant. That just ain't right honey.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
But, but ... where is the fun in that Gaddy?

:coolwink:

I'm ever so sorry but, for me, actually being a scientologist involved quite enough madness for one lifetime and now that I'm free I'm not going to waste my time trying to differentiate between levels of insanity with the bloody Indies!

Every last one of them is a BT hunting, tubs loving nutter (well, apart from a couple).

:thankyou:



That is one of those unsaid mysteries of Scn and Indie Scn.

You never quite know what people REALLY think about BTs and Ron saying "I am not from this planet" and that other wacky stuff like visiting heaven and nearly getting run over by a train on Venus.

There are no surveys for what Scientologists actually believe.

And if there were surveys they would mostly lie, lie, lie because they would be afraid that the information would a) go the ethics officer, and; b) increase their tech estimate.

But safe to say, most believe what Ron believes. I mean what Ron wants them to believe.

That whole "knowing how to know" is the biggest mind-numbing, thought-stopping, common-sense-annihilating BIG LIE in the whole cult. Scientologists know very little. And they know less about their own cult.

I wonder what the average number of seconds/minutes an average conversation betweem Scientologists lasts before they use the words "Ron talks about...." and then launch into the Tech Du Jour?


NEW SCIENTOLOGIST BOB
I should really get going, I am going
to miss my plane.

REGISTRAR
I totally understand. You know, Ron talks about
how time is only a consideration and it really
puts the being at effect.....on this planet.



HELPFUL HINT TO SCIENTOLOGISTS: It's always good to add phrases like "on this planet" to give gravitas to nonsensical Scienobabble.
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
Yes but are you being precise enough Claire?
Will it really make that person look like a moron? When was the last time you looked at some morons? Were they all the same? If so, then you are half way there, but even morons have different gender, hairstyles, clothes etc, even if they did, hypothetically resemble each other in facial features etc. There are many different looks in the moron subset, so if someone was said to look like a moron, you'd have to say which one. This is fair and objective and rational. Just as you constantly ask for fairness for indies with your lifetime mission of lecturing clumsy complainers on the minutiae of differences between individual indie-scientologists (I hope that is an allowable term) and the differences between indies and COS scientologists. So. all I'm sayin' is morons is different and it behooves you to do the fair thing and be precise by not implying that "a" moron is a constant. That just ain't right honey.





That ^^^^^^^

Well, its very unfair to morons to be so black and white in your thinking Claire, they really don't deserve it.

Is you being willfully ignorant? (if so, that's a good start ... come and sit next to me).


:happydance:

 

PirateAndBum

Gold Meritorious Patron
I'm predjudice.

I pre-judge people who leave the Church.

I am in contempt for someone who leaves thinking they are one of the real special beings on the planet and others in the Church just don't see it.

I am in contempt for someone who leaves and now says the Church is abusive while for years they sipped ice tea on the decks of the Freewinds as a public and were waited on hand and foot.

These people have my scorn and I will forever hold them in contempt and mock them.

Why? Because they have never reflected on their actions and contributions to the injustice and insanity.

Their only concern is their status.

Don't expect these people to bring about any reform.

The only reform they want is for others to consider and acknowledge them as super-special as they consider themselves.

If a person does not go through some self-reflection and acknowledgement of their weakness and inadequacies that made them a part of that nightmare, then in my book they have only left the buildings, but not the spirit, of the Church and Scientology.

The Anabaptist Jacques

Hubbard told me that having judgement is good.

Hubbard told me he had the only workable route taped.

I studied all the books, red vols, over a 1000 tapes, got trained, audited, was on staff.

"This is the place you been coming to for the last trillion trillion. Right here to the St Hill Special Briefing Course." - The Free Being

Yup. Here I am. Sucking up all that SciFi whole-track. Flea flickin fantasm.

The ice tea on the Freewinds was lovely. Had some fun times on that ship. Food was not bad. The service was, not quite up to being called waited on hand and foot I'm afraid. The view at night out at sea - stars and sea - amazing.

I was given all the answers to the universe.

I gave them 100's of thousands of $$$ in return. I watched my status rise in the IAS, and wherever else cash could buy status, WISE, Bridge, ASI, PDO, New Org. Reveled in knowing I was doing my part to help the only group that could possibly save the world. Oh, and they fed off me. The regs that would drop in from 3000 miles away landing on my doorstep unannounced and spend the night or nights, until their stat was gotten.

We were given special knowledge. The answer to mankind's woes. And a mission to save the world.

I am of the chosen people of earth. So best to just get over it. They clearly are failing. Time to cozy up with the Elites of the New World Order now. They have their own status ladders to be climbed.

Scilonocrats are special and will be special forever and ever until ... well... forever!

You're just being a big meanie TAJ. :bigcry:
 

PirateAndBum

Gold Meritorious Patron
That is one of those unsaid mysteries of Scn and Indie Scn.

You never quite know what people REALLY think about BTs and Ron saying "I am not from this planet" and that other wacky stuff like visiting heaven and nearly getting run over by a train on Venus.

There are no surveys for what Scientologists actually believe.

And if there were surveys they would mostly lie, lie, lie because they would be afraid that the information would a) go the ethics officer, and; b) increase their tech estimate.

But safe to say, most believe what Ron believes. I mean what Ron wants them to believe.

That whole "knowing how to know" is the biggest mind-numbing, thought-stopping, common-sense-annihilating BIG LIE in the whole cult. Scientologists know very little. And they know less about their own cult.

I wonder what the average number of seconds/minutes an average conversation betweem Scientologists lasts before they use the words "Ron talks about...." and then launch into the Tech Du Jour?
<snip: J&D! >
HELPFUL HINT TO SCIENTOLOGISTS: It's always good to add phrases like "on this planet" to give gravitas to nonsensical Scienobabble.

HH, really? You don't know the answer to these questions? Let me help you.

BTs : Ron said get rid of 'em. So we get rid of 'em. Are they real? Of course they are. Ron said so. They are an extra special problem on this planet. :duh:

Ron said he wasn't from this planet. Well of course he's not from this planet! Nobody is "from" this planet! This place is less than 5 billion years old, how could any of us be from this planet. Hell, none of us are even "from" this universe! I hope that clears that one up for you. :duh:

Visiting Heaven: Clearly you haven't listened to the Helatrobus Implant lecture which is where he says that. He was joking. The implant location had a sign that said "Heaven" (you know like the Heaven Motel down on RT 41 in Tallawatchie, on this planet) except this wasn't really a motel at all., He knew it wasn't really heaven. Ron didn't believe in heaven (well except for having teenage girls in hotpants and halter tops wait on him hand and foot. And yes TAJ - Ron did get hand and foot service unlike mere public on the Freewinds) :duh:

Trains on Venus: Ron said so. So what's the problem? Venus is covered in nasty clouds and probes can't even endure going through the atmosphere so we can't see the surface. A nice big bubble force field covering the implant station would take care of the problem quite nicely. So, trains on Venus, sure, why not, we have them on this planet.:duh:

Knowing how to Know: Well sure, Ron knew how to know, so why shouldn't we believe him? I mean that's quite simple to understand isn't it? Stupid is as stupid does or something like that right? Well the opposite is true too. Isn't it? Are you feeling handled on that or do I need to go into deeper logical discourse on this one and dig up more examples from this planet's history? :duh:

"Ron talks about...": Yes, he did in fact talk one hell of a lot. So when we say, "Ron says", well he probably did cause he said and wrote a lot of shit man! So why shouldn't we quote him? And after all, who else are they gonna quote? Einstein or somebody else as smart as Ron, well, you know there wasn't anyone as smart as Ron on this planet, so why bother? :duh:

You're a meanie too! Now I have a headache, thanks a lot!
 
Last edited:

PirateAndBum

Gold Meritorious Patron
...

Tick one box. If you tick more than one box, your choice in invalid. If you tick less than two boxes, your choice is invalid. If you tick none, you are invalid.

1. The previous post was stupid ( )

2. That's a nice hat you're wearing. ( )

3. There's one box above I'd like to tick but
when I think about doing that I get a nervous tick. (X)

Those ARE NOT boxes! I reject your attempts to tick me off.

But I do like your hat HH
 

PirateAndBum

Gold Meritorious Patron
Not always and not exactly. There's a wide range of beliefs amongst Indies and FZers. They do a lot of cherry picking. I was far from the only one who did that.

Much of what gets deleted/ditched are policy stuff- RPFing, routing forms to get out, freeloader debts, enforced disconnection, that sort of thing. Last I noticed, those things were considered a rather big deal and were major topics of criticism re Hubbardism.

You know I love you Claire! (Beware when people start off with that line...)

But, seriously. OK, I mean, like wow! I think that a little time in the RPF might do you and some other zonefreeindy's a world of good. How about it? It is of course voluntary. Maybe a month or 2? Whadda ya say?

No? Well let me tell you some of the advantages!

1. No need to decide what to wear each day.
2. No need to waste time showering and other personal hygiene nuisances.
3. You can lose a few pounds, tighten up that tummy or butt.
4. You get to study 5 hrs a day (or sleep, your choice!)
5. You look mahveloos in black dahling

So? :yes:

All morons are not alike. Some are more moronic than others. This is the Law of Morons: Some people are dumb, and some people are dumber than dumb. Anybody that thinks otherwise is a moron.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
But, but ... where is the fun in that Gaddy?

:coolwink:

I'm ever so sorry but, for me, actually being a scientologist involved quite enough madness for one lifetime and now that I'm free I'm not going to waste my time trying to differentiate between levels of insanity with the bloody Indies!

Every last one of them is a BT hunting, tubs loving nutter (well, apart from a couple).

:thankyou:

Well, even when I was "in", I NEVER considered or called myself a "Scientologist". My "madness" was always tempered by the fact that I DID "differentiate" at every step along the way. I never became any sort of dedicated card-carrying fanatical Scio-weenie. Maybe you did? I don't know, but that is what you imply.

I can understand that those people who DID become true dedicated Faithful Followers of Ron might now react heavily in the OPPOSITE direction. I see that here on ESMB. Often the people who were the most silly while in Scientology, who donated LOTS of money, who contributed LOTS of time, who really bought into the whole Scientology paradigm, now at times can be exceptionally silly here on ESMB as a "critic".

I was never the type who liked being a part of some big movement or group, and I never liked "going all the way" with ANYTHING. I have always tended towards moderation, and a careful detailed look at ANYTHING, with differentiation, usually leaves me "undecided", or at least NOT "gung-ho".

I look at people with a suspicious eye who say things like:

"Every last one of them is a BT hunting, tubs loving nutter".

It is, to me, too severe and too extreme, in the opposite way, but just like a typical card-carrying over-indoctrinated Scientologist. It is the SAME mentality, but aimed differently. I mean, you can take a person with tendencies towards fanaticism and put the in ANY environment of beliefs, and they will go "all the way". True Believers can be FOR or AGAINST.

OK, if you say so. I don't react or really care that you say it. Whatever. But, to me it seems more aimed at "creating an effect" (which is exactly what the well-trained Scientologist also does).

I never went for wide-sweeping generalities, not when involved with Scientology and not while now far out.

See, while I did enjoy auditing, I quickly noticed too many weird and unwanted behaviors by the Scientology organization and by various "gung-ho" members. I never could slip into the "valence" or "beingness" of a "dedicated Scientologist". It was my ability to differentiate that allowed me to "keep my distance" from the lunacy.

Again, I reiterate, and you are free to disagree with more generalities that attack differentiation:

Differentiate. It is good for the human conceptual thinking processes.

ANY person does his or herself a disservice by failing or refusing to do so.

But, I understand, it can be fun to ratchet up the drama and toss out all-inclusive generalities to "create some effect". :coolwink:
 
Top