In the US and Australia, new Ideal Orgs are increasingly isolated and uninviting. What gives?

Discussion in 'Tony Ortega' started by RSS Feed, May 5, 2018.

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  1. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    I've never seen bulk mail limited to magazines.

    There is also a policy to slow walk the payment of bills. Pay on a 30-day schedule and if it goes longer and vendors complain then the problem is that they are too small for the Church's account.

    These policies are intended for the Church but yes, Scientologists want to read them as though they can be applied in their personal lives or as public Scientologist to the COS and it just doesn't work.

    Kind of like how the Doubt Formula is always supposed to result in a renewed commitment to Scientology but if you really do it correctly no sane person would.
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  2. Fred Basset

    Fred Basset Patron

    What actually constitutes a mission?

    Is there a difference between a Class 0 Org and a mission?

    And how do ratings for Orgs go? Is it based on number of staff or level of services offered or what?

    Just had a quick look at OEC vol. 0 about if an Org is failing then drop it back to Class 0 with just 3 people. Sounds like sound advice.

    Offload some of the extraneous personnel, who aren't really contributing a whole lot.

    Quality is better than quantity!
  3. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    As far as I know there is no such thing as a Class 0 Org. Orgs are Class V (used to be Class iV). This means they can deliver auditor training up to Class V auditor and can deliver auditing up to Clear. But when someone is ready to attest to Clear they have to be sent to an Advanced Org. That is the way it was in the 1990s when I was in. Missions could deliver minor courses and auditing, Class V Orgs deliver services up to Class V/Clear and Advanced Orgs deliver higher levels of training and auditing. Missions and orgs are usually manned by contracted staff whereas Advanced Orgs are manned by Sea Org personnel.

    I don't know about that OEC vol. 0 reference. Maybe it made sense at the time it was written but not now. If it was from the old/original OEC volumes then it may not have been written by Hubbard even though his name is on it.
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  4. Fred Basset

    Fred Basset Patron

    If you have a Class V Org then presumably you can have a Class I, II, III and IV Org. And using Scientology classifying then also a Class 0 Org.

    All Orgs presumably started out as a fledgling Class 0. You couldn't jump from nothing straight to Class V.

    And according to this ref. in OEC vol 0, you can drop your Org back down in Class so as to sort things out again.

    I could see a result occurring at say Perth (only one I know much about), if you culled the superfluous staff. I don't know exactly what criteria you would use to decide who would be asked to take a leave of absence.
    Obviously discontinue the insane practice of hiring every Joe Blow who walks in the door and shows the slightest bit of interest in Scientology. A green grass off the street could be easily convinced that Scientology means you have to join staff and there is no other valid way of practicing it. So the responsibility is with the current staff to be more sensible in directing such eagerness into something more practical like studying materials for 5,10 15 years first before cluttering up Orgs with well meaning wogs.

  5. FoTi

    FoTi Crusader

    If you did that, there wouldn't be any more new staff members.....why would anyone join staff after 5 - 15 years studying the tech when they can go out in the field and work as an auditor on their own or with a field group and not have to sign any bloody contract with some org.

    Orgs have to grab anyone they can to sign a contract and commit themselves to working there without any benefits and guilt them into staying and completing their's the greatest good for the planet.
  6. Fred Basset

    Fred Basset Patron

    FoTi, I guessed that time length I mentioned might sound odd, especially after the incessant promo about high speed grades and progress and what not.
    But that is my own personal reality factor on how slow progress actually is in studying materials.
    I don't think Scientology is a fast subject to learn.
    I don't think you can really just read a book or do a course and hey presto sudden skill in auditing.
    Sure it varies for each individual, so I guess there can be a few who could get somewhere in only a couple of years but looking at the more ordinary public a more practical time frame is 5-10 years.
    I like referring to something Ron said so :
    Introduction to Scientology video
    "......he's around and about it for 3,4,5 years and then he decides he wants to be an Auditor. And so he comes to a central organization and learns how to be an auditor."
    quoted just from memory, probably mistakes.
    Then I think something about how long it takes to become a good auditor, I think 12 years is mentioned.

    Obviously a refreshingly realistic estimation of how hard studying Scientology properly is expected to take.
    If promo says you should get to Clear in a few weeks, then someone is pulling a fast one.

  7. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    My experience of scientology (15+ years) doesn't seem to tally with anything you are saying here.

    Firstly, no, there aren't any class 0, 1, 2, 3 or 4 orgs. There are only class V orgs and advanced orgs. The class relates to the training and auditing levels they can sell, as I mentioned previously. You can't have an org that only trains and audits up to level 0 or 1 etc. They can either train and audit up to class V or else they are missions not orgs.

    Secondly, no org would be allowed to just get rid of staff. That seems to be a weird reference you have found there in OEC vol 0 because dismantling an org is a suppressive act and I would say that getting rid of staff would come under that heading. If an org is doing badly then the Advanced Org that has responsibility for that org will send in a mission and sort it out with heavy ethics applied to the existing staff.

    I studied all of the OEC volumes twice and did a full OEC internship in my local org and I have never heard of anything like the things you are suggesting here.
  8. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    That's how I remember it from the 1990s too. There is also an org called a "St. Hill" org, which delivers the Saint Hill Special Briefing Course (Class VI course) and, I think, Power Processing and Power Plus (Grades V and VA) and maybe R6EW and the Clearing Course. It's possible that the Power and Power Plus, R6EW and the Clearing Course are delivered at Advanced Orgs rather than St. Hills. Perhaps someone will know (if it matters!). Some St. Hill orgs are combined with Advanced Orgs, to form an AOSH (e.g. AOSH UK), but some St. Hills are separate (e.g. Saint Hill Foundation, which shares the same physical location as AOSH UK, but is an SH (whilst not simultaneously being an AO), and the American SH Organisation ASHO (does it still exist?). My impression was that AOs could delivery any auditing up to OTV, but didn't usually deliver the briefing course unless they were also a SH.

    I used to be confused about some of the classifications of the auditing levels. For example, in some places the Class VII course was described as the 'internship' for the Class VI course, but according to the Bridge that didn't seem to be true, as the Class VI course had its own internship on the Bridge chart, and the Class VII course taught one how to audit Power and Power Plus (which makes it NOT a Class VI internship, as the Class VI course doesn't cover Power, but does cover pretty much everything else). I also knew someone with an old Class VI certificate, which WASN'T the briefing course, but seemed to be more like what is now called the Class V Graduate Course, or something like that. So presumably the levels classifications changed at some point. I would guess that the SHSBC was not originally called the Class VI course, based on the above.

    Going off on a (slightly related) tangent, does anyone know why the OT levels from IX onwards are all called 'New' OT levels? I can understand why OT I, IV, V, VI, VII were re-named as new (because they were replaced). OTII and III are not called 'new', because they are still the original versions. But then why are OTVIII onwards described as 'new'? This implies there was an old OTVIII and IX, but I don't think there ever was. Or did they just decide that any OT level that would be issued after New OTVIII would be arbitrarily also called new?

    Not that any of the above matters, but just curious....

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  9. Operating DB

    Operating DB Truman Show Dropout

    Sounds like the ultimate nightmare. I got this awful dreaded feeling reading this. UGHHHHH!!! Memories, light the corner of my reactive brain...

    I'm glad I'm free!
  10. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    Way back in the 1960's, there was policy describing a thing called a City Office (Operation Clambake has a discussion, with policy refs and excerpts from the Admin dictionary here )

    A city office would be a branch of a "Central Org" (Class IV/V org). It would not deliver much beyond intro services, and would have the job of getting people interested enough to go to a Central Org.

    Organizationally, it would begin life as a satellite of an org, and its stats would be counted with the stats of its parent org.
  11. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    Which is why Int Management, for decades, has been systematically making it impossible to operate as a field auditor, independent of an org.

    Field Auditors were originally independent. Then came rules that they could not operate closer than X miles from an established org. Then came rules that the field auditor had to have all his C/Sing done by the Org C/S (as of the early 80's, field auditors could get C/Sed by another field auditor who was C/S trained). Then if the org C/S decided you flubbed, she could order the field auditor to re-train (at his own expense), and meanwhile he would have to route all his PCs to the Org HGC. I knew a Class 8 field auditor. He finally said "screw it" some years back.
  12. FoTi

    FoTi Crusader

    They also had a rule that you couldn't receive services from a field auditor unless you had been offlines from any and all orgs for at least 2 years, so you couldn't choose to receive services from a field auditor if you wanted to without stopping your own Bridge and avoiding doing any services in any org for at least 2 years. The COS didn't want anyone else, including field auditors, to get your $$$$. They wanted to own and control you and your $$$$$. :angry: :furious: :grouch: :swear:
  13. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Silver Meritorious Patron

    The nearest McDonald's...
  14. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Silver Meritorious Patron

    You can have city offices where you do distrib for new people off the street and some basic courses focusing on the HQS course
  15. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Silver Meritorious Patron

    And now Clearwater is collapsing the CLV orgs by grabbing all student auditors

    CoS was once able to produce two marketable commodities; auditing and auditor training

    If they were but to do that they could prosper
  16. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    It used to be that some field auditors could prosper. Some would be able to talk to people in a manner which had people feeling better.

    Think about it. If somebody could manage to make a decent living as an auditor, not $10/week staff pay, but what the normal world considers middle class standard of living, then lots of parents would put their kids through the Briefing Course instead of college, and you would have had lots of auditors.

    But allowing field auditors to exist like that involved being OK with people other than LRH and DM making money off of Scientology, and LRH and DM simply could not tolerate that. So more and more obstacles were placed in their way, and more and more hoops were set up that they had to jump through, until finally they said "screw this", and went off and did something else for a living.
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  17. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Silver Meritorious Patron


    Ain't that the truth!

    If you had orgs where auditors made $25 an hour then it's just a great part time job for a stay at home mother doing 15-20 hours a week with the org charging $100 an hour.


    The fucking hours of my fucking life I've fucking wasted sitting around thinking about how Scientology could be done right...
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  18. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    I don't waste time thinking that much about Scientology. I spend my time thinking about how to get my kids squared away.

    Just move on. Build a life with however much time you have left.
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  19. Fred Basset

    Fred Basset Patron

    I was faced with a huge sum to try to raise for some auditing. Sure the Auditor wanted to provide the service and I wanted to receive it. But it seems someone had been a third party between us: by putting fees up by so much that it was impossible to pay for.
    Someone is making the public resentful of the staff - and the staff doesn't even usually get much of the fees.
    That's a Third Party surely.
    Obviously blame management.
    I know I would like to see my Auditor reimbursed for their effort.

    In fact it would probably be workable to use the term "DONATION" as it is popularly understood to mean.
    You actually donate what you can and what you feel like donated, you know like normal donations to charity and what not.

    I have a feeling that would actually work out better overall.

    Fred B.
  20. Fred Basset

    Fred Basset Patron

    A shop that just sold materials would be the simplest way to go.

    I think you'd get less ARC breaks with public if you didn't try to do personality tests and sell course.

    Include in the shop a thing like in record shops where you can sit down and listen to some CD's on headphones.

    Ofcourse nowadays you have to mention that you would not be promoting material made by the Scientology actors and media groups. As these are just ABOUT Scientology instead of giving someone actual Scientology. That includes: "How to use Dianetics" etc.
    Some moron supposes that direct pure Scientology needs to be interpreted and watered down to explain to newcomers what they would never be able to understand on their own.