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Is consciousness expansion dead?

F.Bullbait

Oh, a wise guy,eh?
Prove it, prove it, prove it ... nag, nag nag...

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Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
It isn't just "communicating about something". What you do is a bit different. I paraphrase:
Mimsey: A is true.
Someone: I don't think A is true.​
Mimsey: A is true, here is a link, here is an anecdote, here is another link, A is true!​
Someone: Um... none of that proves that A is true.​
Mimsey: NO! A is true! Here are three more links, here I repeat my anecdote. A is true!​
Someone: Mimsey, all that still isn't proof.​
Mimsey: A is true. Why don't you listen to me! A is true. Why don't you read what I wrote!​

It is perfectly fine that you believe what you believe ... and it is perfectly fine that others don't believe as you do. Accept that and move on.
The bottom line is that there are some things that cannot be proven. In the same way, they cannot be disproven either. The existence of God, is one example. Given that God is, by definition, beyond, outside of, above, the physical universe, you can't use physical universe tools to "see" God. Assuming that definition, the existence of "God" cannot be proved or disproved.

So why argue about it?

The same goes for all that "paranormal" stuff. Why argue about it?
 

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
The bottom line is that there are some things that cannot be proven. In the same way, they cannot be disproven either. The existence of God, is one example. Given that God is, by definition, beyond, outside of, above, the physical universe, you can't use physical universe tools to "see" God. Assuming that definition, the existence of "God" cannot be proved or disproved.

So why argue about it?

The same goes for all that "paranormal" stuff. Why argue about it?

Are you referring to a God as in a simple deistic notion or are you also including Yahweh, Allah, Zeus. etc.?

If you mean simple deism then I am an agnostic.
If you mean Yahweh, Allah, Zeus. etc then I am an atheist.
 
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freethinker

Sponsor
Outside of the Scientology bubble - outside of Scientology orgs, promo and literature - can anyone locate an account by Ingo Swann where he credits Scientology for the return of his natural paranormal abilities?

Swann studied many subjects having to do with the paranormal, etc., and he discusses them, except Scientology, or so it seems.

I've definitely not examined all of his writings, or listened to all of his available recorded lectures, where he - possibly - was questioned, maybe, about Scientology? But I've never come across it.

Doesn't it seem odd that there's one version of Ingo Swann when he was in Scientology and amongst Scientologists, and another version of Ingo Swann when he's outside Scientology, a version where he never mentions Scientology?

Are any of you Scientology sympathizers at least a wee bit curious about that?
Have you ever listened to his videos?

 

freethinker

Sponsor
Here is the thing about OT powers, whatever they are to you, whatever you think would be possible, if you actually attained them. First, you would be amazed, then you would stop and wonder if anyone else could do it, then you would start to do anything you could with them, until you found the limit.

Eventually, you would find there was nothing more you could do, there was nothing suddenly manifesting like when you did something different and a new phenomena came up and you say, wow, I didn't know I could do that. But then the limit will be reached, and what will you do then, you will seek another guru to take you above OT because OT will be boring. You will have done it all and everything you can think of, whatever you can try and it will be boring.

Powers are only important if you are dissatisfied with what you can already do. It means what you have and can do isn't enough, you aren't happy because you can't amaze your friends with some special ability you have, or yourself. Let's face it, the only reason you want to be OT is you are dissatisfied with what you are and you want to be above everyone else. You want to be special because after the novelty of OT wears off, it's just ordinary and means nothing unless you can share it and once you share it, then everyone is the same again.

The biggest problem everyone has, is that what they are isn't enough. Eventually OT will not be enough. So, if you want to be happy, be the best you, you can be and be happy with that. "Wouldn't you want to be able to's?", aren't all they are cracked up to be because what you can do with all your limitations is even more amazing.
 

freethinker

Sponsor

IngosArtMilenium-300x258.gif

Yes, some of them, not this one until just now.

Ingo is in good form.

Didn't notice any mention of Scientology (did I miss it?) but I did notice he used the words, "Matter, Energy, Space, and Time," and "Mental Image Picture."
Don't know why there would be a need to be a connection. Could be he study Scientology to see if it could expand upon what ever he was doing already. His remote viewing didn't necessarily come from doing Scientology. Scientology may just be an experiment of his to see if there was anything it could add.

More links to Ingo Swann
 

Veda

Sponsor
The only hint of a mention of Scientology, in any literature related to Ingo Swann, is an (indirect reference) allusion by two of his associates at SRI in the book, The Mind Race:


41CtGDO9-7L._SX346_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg


Stanford Research Institute experimental psychologist Keith Harary, and Russell Targ, a physicist also from Stanford, wrote a book titled 'Mind Race' (as in 'space race'). It contains a section on the exploitation of psychic phenomena, or the promise of psychic phenomena, by cults.

Both were well aware of Scientology, and had worked with Ingo Swann, who had done Scientology's "OT levels," and later (after leaving) described them as "disappointing." Swann claims to have been a natural psychic since childhood.

From the book, 'Mind Race':

You won't find these groups listed under 'cults' in the Yellow pages. For income tax and public relations purposes, most refer to themselves as 'Churches'. But cults differ from traditional churches in several important ways...
In our society, a person who is beginning to experience emerging psychic abilities, or who is interested in doing so, has almost nowhere to turn for guidance. Anyone with a purely scholarly interest in Psi research can write to various laboratories or read the research reports. But this information probably will not be of much practical personal use...
This is the dilemma that leads many people to join cults in the first place. By accepting and exploiting psychic phenomena in a society that does not readily accept them, cults have effectively monopolized the subject of psi. They have exploited many people who are interested in learning about the area, and frightened many others away from ever considering the possibility...
People are often drawn into cults that claim to offer explanations for psychic functioning, but at great personal, emotional, and financial expense to their followers. We think that giving away your mind is too high a price to pay for psychic development...
For some people, the exposure to the possibility of developing their own psychic potential, which some cults appear to provide, may initially help certain individuals pay attention to areas of their own awareness that they might not otherwise consider exploring.
But prolonged exposure to any cult's treatment of psychic abilities may seriously restrict the way its initiates view psychic functioning. And it may keep them from fully developing their actual psychic potential...
Despite claims to the contrary by numerous factions, there is no evidence of an exclusive relationship between psychic functioning and any particular leader, doctrine , or way of life. Scientific evidence does strongly suggest that the ability to function psychically is a genuine human capacity which, for many people, seems to improve with practice.
_________


Scientology is such an embarrassment, and such a potential nuisance, that it's simply not worth mentioning.

 
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Veda

Sponsor
CLAIMS, claims.. and all such BS. Thanks Veda, do you know what year that is from?
1973.

Below is from a couple of years earlier than that.

The assembly line was cookin.

(The graph of numbers of Clears began to almost flat line around 1976. It didn't take long for Hubbard to "discover Dianetic Clear.")



ingo_douglas_swann_scientology_clear_2231_auditor_50_1969.png


Where are they now?
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
1973.

Below is from a couple of years earlier than that.

The assembly line was cookin.

(The graph of numbers of Clears began to almost flat line around 1976. It didn't take long for Hubbard to "discover Dianetic Clear.")



ingo_douglas_swann_scientology_clear_2231_auditor_50_1969.png


Where are they now?
Clear 2170 Veda, someone dear to your heart I believe. And almost next to her name, Robin's. Now isn't it amazing that after carrying this R6 bank around for all these millions of years that they should both 'go clear' on practically the same day!
 

Veda

Sponsor
Clear 2170 Veda, someone dear to your heart I believe. And almost next to her name, Robin's. Now isn't it amazing that after carrying this R6 bank around for all these millions of years that they should both 'go clear' on practically the same day!
That was from the Auditor newspaper of 1969.

And below is from 1968, standing under the giant LRH monogrammed smokestack:

auditor_35_1968_-_otto_roos_joan_robertson_bill_robertson.png


Strange.
 

dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
1973.

Below is from a couple of years earlier than that.

The assembly line was cookin.

(The graph of numbers of Clears began to almost flat line around 1976. It didn't take long for Hubbard to "discover Dianetic Clear.")



ingo_douglas_swann_scientology_clear_2231_auditor_50_1969.png


Where are they now?
Clear 2226 Henning Heldt! Wasn't he involved in the Snow White program?
ahh yes,

1979 http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/washingtonpost/conviction-120779.htm

The highest official in the church's "guardian" office, Henning Heldt, said he "broke the law and will not do it again." But, he added, "most people aren't confronted with a government agency trying to destroy their religion and make a mockery of their religion."
Assistant U.S. Attorney Raymond Banoun, said Heldt's statement was an indication that the illegality of his acts had not sunk in. "They have learned nothing. They go after anyone critical of them.They're not concerned about anyone else but themselves. They weren't concerned about the rights of others and they never have been."
Richey said he was "not fully convinced" that Heldt was remorseful and felt a prison sentence was necessary to vindicate the judicial system. He sentenced Heldt to four years in prison and fined him $10,000.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/threads/where-are-they-now-henning-heldt.6856/#post-122252
 
1973.

Below is from a couple of years earlier than that.

The assembly line was cookin.

(The graph of numbers of Clears began to almost flat line around 1976. It didn't take long for Hubbard to "discover Dianetic Clear.")



ingo_douglas_swann_scientology_clear_2231_auditor_50_1969.png


Where are they now?
I know 13 of them and a couple I have heard of but not met - I can't recall my clear # anymore, but I went clear around that time - it was in 1970. Mimsey
 
Clear 2170 Veda, someone dear to your heart I believe. And almost next to her name, Robin's. Now isn't it amazing that after carrying this R6 bank around for all these millions of years that they should both 'go clear' on practically the same day!
I met her at NYO HGC waiting for her power. I also knew Robin and Janet - I never met Mike. I met them again in LA a year or so later. They are great people.

Mimsey
 
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