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Is the IAS a standard and legitimate Scientology operation at all?

Sis O' Sign

Patron with Honors
A quick question I was thinking about:

If the International Association of Scientologists was a standard and legitimate Scientology operation, it would need to apply the policies written by Scientology founder L.Ron Hubbard fully, right?

That would be the only way for them to protect Scientology.

Ya think?
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
But the IAS does faithfully apply L Ron Hubbard tech and policy. Start with the master policy document, KSW. Which actions of the IAS would be in breach of that?
 

Stat

Gold Meritorious Patron
Almost anything is legitimate if it involves Scientology getting more money.
IAS included. Especially IAS. "You are the IAS", when you are in.
All it takes is to convince you that there is nothing more important. Ever.

Scn/IAS will try to press every "button" to reach and control true you.
"For the most good."
 

Sis O' Sign

Patron with Honors
Okay, this was a rhetorical question I asked, I know.

Here's the thing: I am going for my IAS refund.

A few days ago I contacted IAS simply through their website contact form and asked for a refund and cancellation of my membership, Attn. Legal Officer IASA. They answered immediately that they cancelled my membership, however, donations are non-refundable. And the gentleman asked me to do any further correspondence via regular mail.

On Jan 27 I answered:

"Dear Mr. Mislav Raos,

I received your letter, thank you for your quick reply, I appreciate
that! And for cancelling our memberships.

I understand your preference of regular mail correspondence, so if you
need a hard copy of this letter, I will send it to you. However, I would like to give the Association the opportunity of completing this cycle before next Thursday 2pm; we know what is with the “speed of particle flows”. And as the IAS is doing part of its business online in the form of taking donations via the internet, email communication should perfectly do it here as well.

Yes, I am completely aware of the fact that normally the membership
fees and donations made to the IAS are not refundable, in accordance
with the rules of the IAS.

Which might give you a point to consider: supposed that the International Association of Scientologists is a standard Scientology operation, the policies written by the Founder of Scientology, L. Ron Hubbard should apply for the services of the IAS as well:

HCO Policy Letter 23 October 1963 "Refund Policy",
"...I have always promptly and immediately caused to be refunded every penny of the money paid by any person who was dissatisfied with his or her processing."
and
"I have only worked then with these three policies:
1. Refund at once in full any refund demanded; …”

As detailed below, me and my son are absolutely not satisfied with the service we got from the IAS through the years, so should this HCO PL not be applied to our situation, it would serve as an evidence to us, to you and to anyone who might get in the possession of this information later that the International Association of Scientologists is not a standard and legal Scientology operation.

And it is also true that me and my son (for the short period when he called himself a Scientologist) supported the IAS voluntarily. Through 1.5 decades, I supported the International Association of Scientologists in the belief that it acted solely out of the pure intention and hard work of its officers and members toward its stated purposes, such as:

- to unite, advance, support and protect the Scientology religion and Scientologists in all parts of the world so as to achieve the Aims of Scientology as originated by L. Ron Hubbard,
- to guarantee that the Scientology religion can be practiced for all time — through a strong group composed of those who believe in and are
willing to fight for the rights of man,
- by making human rights a fact, the IAS is creating a safe environment and keeping the road free for beings to achieve ultimate freedom.

Unfortunately, what I had to discover was that this was not what was happening."

And here comes a detailed description of what I have experienced - a couple of pages. Then again:

"By the above not wearing of its hats, the Association has betrayed our trust.

Taking these details into account, I repeat that me and my son are
absolutely not satisfied with the service we got from the IAS through
the years, therefore I demand from you to immediately refund the
amounts that are under my and my son’s name, in accordance with the
LRH reference quoted at the beginning of this letter.

Please pay for (name): $4900.- and for (son's name): $3225.-,
promptly and immediately.

BANK DETAILS:
...

This is OK.

Signature"

Well, already 4 days went by and no any answer, which violates the Staff Status I reference on that a despatch must be answered within 3 days, and which is starting to fall out of the definition of "promptly and immediately"...

Thursday 2pm is approaching, they should be going for being upstat on their stats of "handled threats" or how is that called, and this $8000 something I am demanding is a no amount compared to what is cashed in by the IAS weekly, so it would be a piece of cake for them to dash out. Let’s see what happens.
 

Arthur Dent

Silver Meritorious Patron
Okay, this was a rhetorical question I asked, I know.

Here's the thing: I am going for my IAS refund.

A few days ago I contacted IAS simply through their website contact form and asked for a refund and cancellation of my membership, Attn. Legal Officer IASA. They answered immediately that they cancelled my membership, however, donations are non-refundable. And the gentleman asked me to do any further correspondence via regular mail.

On Jan 27 I answered:

"Dear Mr. Mislav Raos,

I received your letter, thank you for your quick reply, I appreciate
that! And for cancelling our memberships.

I understand your preference of regular mail correspondence, so if you
need a hard copy of this letter, I will send it to you. However, I would like to give the Association the opportunity of completing this cycle before next Thursday 2pm; we know what is with the “speed of particle flows”. And as the IAS is doing part of its business online in the form of taking donations via the internet, email communication should perfectly do it here as well.

Yes, I am completely aware of the fact that normally the membership
fees and donations made to the IAS are not refundable, in accordance
with the rules of the IAS.

Which might give you a point to consider: supposed that the International Association of Scientologists is a standard Scientology operation, the policies written by the Founder of Scientology, L. Ron Hubbard should apply for the services of the IAS as well:

HCO Policy Letter 23 October 1963 "Refund Policy",
"...I have always promptly and immediately caused to be refunded every penny of the money paid by any person who was dissatisfied with his or her processing."
and
"I have only worked then with these three policies:
1. Refund at once in full any refund demanded; …”

As detailed below, me and my son are absolutely not satisfied with the service we got from the IAS through the years, so should this HCO PL not be applied to our situation, it would serve as an evidence to us, to you and to anyone who might get in the possession of this information later that the International Association of Scientologists is not a standard and legal Scientology operation.

And it is also true that me and my son (for the short period when he called himself a Scientologist) supported the IAS voluntarily. Through 1.5 decades, I supported the International Association of Scientologists in the belief that it acted solely out of the pure intention and hard work of its officers and members toward its stated purposes, such as:

- to unite, advance, support and protect the Scientology religion and Scientologists in all parts of the world so as to achieve the Aims of Scientology as originated by L. Ron Hubbard,
- to guarantee that the Scientology religion can be practiced for all time — through a strong group composed of those who believe in and are
willing to fight for the rights of man,
- by making human rights a fact, the IAS is creating a safe environment and keeping the road free for beings to achieve ultimate freedom.

Unfortunately, what I had to discover was that this was not what was happening."

And here comes a detailed description of what I have experienced - a couple of pages. Then again:

"By the above not wearing of its hats, the Association has betrayed our trust.

Taking these details into account, I repeat that me and my son are
absolutely not satisfied with the service we got from the IAS through
the years, therefore I demand from you to immediately refund the
amounts that are under my and my son’s name, in accordance with the
LRH reference quoted at the beginning of this letter.

Please pay for (name): $4900.- and for (son's name): $3225.-,
promptly and immediately.

BANK DETAILS:
...

This is OK.

Signature"

Well, already 4 days went by and no any answer, which violates the Staff Status I reference on that a despatch must be answered within 3 days, and which is starting to fall out of the definition of "promptly and immediately"...

Thursday 2pm is approaching, they should be going for being upstat on their stats of "handled threats" or how is that called, and this $8000 something I am demanding is a no amount compared to what is cashed in by the IAS weekly, so it would be a piece of cake for them to dash out. Let’s see what happens.

I'm not sure if they consider you a "threat" to handle by 2pm unless you have threatened legal.

Good luck! And I hope you'll let us know the progress on your refund! :yes:
 

Sis O' Sign

Patron with Honors
Hi AD, no I didn't threaten them legally - they already have something on their plate to handle in my country: the Parliament is about to change the law on religions, with the almost openly stated purpose of taking away the Church status from Scientology.
I just gave them a hint about this, so that they can figure out what effects can some negative media create in such a situation...
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
They are the recognized arm of CofS. So, therefore, Scn policies would be applied selectively and abused at every turn. Just like in the rest of CofS.
 

haiqu

Patron Meritorious
The IAS is an illegitimate organization. It has no foundation in LRH policy and thus has no need to follow it. The proper and ratified organization for membership is the Hubbard Association of Scientologists International (HASI), of which I am a lifetime member.

And only the naive would believe that the churches are run on LRH policy anyhow. That's a smoke screen to placate the public. The real policy Scientology churches operate on is contained in hidden advices and orders inaccessible to the ordinary member. At the top it's a very "Hey, you!" organization.

This is how management can happily bypass local trained execs with external programs. The day I couldn't follow the org board—and thus the power trail—back to an international structure that made sense was the day I started holding all orders in a suspicious light.

Smoke and mirrors, it's all smoke and mirrors.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Hubbard Standard Tight Conspiracy Tech

The 12 February 1967 Policy Letter 'Admin Know-How, the Responsibility of Leaders' -a.k.a. The Bolivar Policy Letter - on the topic of how a subordinate should relate to his "power":

"[The power asks] 'What are those dead bodies doing at the door'. And if you [the subordinate] are clever, you never let it be known HE [the power] killed them - that weakens you and also hurts the power source. 'Well, boss about all those dead bodies, nobody at all will suppose you did it. She over there, those pink legs sticking out, didn't like me'. 'Well', he'll say if he really is a power, 'Why are you bothering me with it if it's done and you did it. Where's my blue ink?...

"...always push power in the direction of anyone on whose power you depend. It may be more money for the power, or more ease, or a snarling defense of the power to the critic, or even the dull thud of one of his enemies in the dark, or the glorious blaze of a whole enemy camp as a birthday surprise...

"...Real powers are developed by tight conspiracies of this kind... and if they are right and also manage their man [the power] and keep him from collapsing from overwork, bad temper or bad data, a kind of juggernaut builds up."
 

Veda

Sponsor
Some info from Larry Brennan re. IAS:

This posting touches on three subjects that in my opinion are interrelated:

1) facts behind the IAS which too few know;
2) some things about “Ideal Org” buildings that have similarities to what has been done with the IAS; and
3) why Scientologists are kept in the dark about all this.

The first part here is about the IAS (International Association of Scientologists). This is a very little bit of what will be a bigger chapter in an upcoming book about the lies behind organized scientology’s “corporate sortout”.

The information listed here is a small part of the available information that will eventually be published and, IMHO, will be covered by several witnesses in future criminal and/or civil litigation.

To understand the IAS and what is really behind it one has to go back to the years prior to the IAS.

For years Hubbard took money from organized scientology (millions of dollars) while preaching to Scientologists that he never got such money.

It would be too lengthy to go into a full history of this but suffice to say there were often pools of funds that were used to funnel money to Hubbard whether it be in the days the guardians office worked with “LRH Accounts” on same or later days where Miscavige just took the money and sent it to Hubbard.

One of the big legal problems that initially the GO had and later the CMO (Commodores Messenger Organization) had was Hubbard really was running all this and money really was inureing to his personal benefit and there was the ever present danger that the likes of the IRS would find out, thus destroying any chance of tax exempt status for organized Scientology’s corporations in the USA.

One “solution” earlier on was to have a phony corporation called “Religious Research Foundation” (“RRF”) that would hold all the funds paid for flag services from people and organizations outside of the USA. It seemed relatively easy to hide this money when Flag was on a ship so RRF’s funds were often used for sending money to Hubbard secretly that he never really earned legally. (RRF was hardly the only example but I just use it here to give some background behind what led to the IAS). At the very least it was felt that this information could be kept from the likes of the IRS and civil litigants.

Well, when flag moved to Florida and it was later decided that it would have to now officially become part of the corporation known as the church of scientology of California, suddenly for the first time those flag services were being performed within the USA and clearly under the jurisdiction of the IRS. Now the fact that millions of that money had inured to Hubbard’s benefit was a big issue and an additional cover-up was needed.

Although organized scientology feels that they have addressed issues like this and all was “made whole” with the 1993 tax agreement with the IRS and their paying the IRS $12.5 million, really they got away with a lot of lies.

The point in this posting is not to discuss the legal and tax aspects of RRF but rather to point out how organized scientology felt that they needed and wanted funds they could control that were outside the jurisdiction of the IRS or any other government entities.

Wrestling with such issues as this have constantly been problems with organized scientology in part due to the fact that they were hiding the fact that Hubbard really controlled things and actually got millions of dollars for same. It’s still a huge problem now as they try to hide the fact that Miscavige controls everything of substance.

Back in the mid 70s before flag came to shore in Florida and while “international funds” like those held in RRF accounts were used for Hubbard’s benefit, there were other attempts lead by Hubbard to hide all this and on the other hand deal with anything the IRS might do. For example, in the mid 70s Hubbard had the GO set up back-up corporations for all scientology “churches” in the USA in the event the IRS seized the then current churches’ bank accounts and other physical assets through what was known as “jeopardy assessment” (basically a fast seizure of assets without having to go through years of litigation).

We set up what was then secretly known as the “Greater Churches of Scientology” where, for example, we had the church of scientology of Boston, we also had a secret “Greater Church of Scientology of Boston” that could be used to take over if the IRS seized the assets of the existing Boston corporation. The new “Greater” corporations would be funded with money outside of the USA and outside of the reach of the IRS.

So again, we see organized scientology needing to have funds outside the reach of US governmental agencies yet still under the control of the powers that be (Hubbard and those running things under him and later Miscavige).

To accomplish this organized scientology would need a “corporate sortout” that could hide the real controls of things and that would make it prohibitively costly for ANYONE, government or private, to try to pierce all the corporate veils.

With the biggest money making parts of organized scientology now being in the USA (Flag, the major orgs in Los Angeles and international management that controlled almost all the funds of scientology around the world) something was needed to get funds going back out of the USA and outside the jurisdiction of the IRS.

This is PART of what was behind the IAS. (I will not here attempt to cover other ways of doing this here such as through various trusts then created, etc., etc.)

(An interesting sideline note here is that per its filings with the IRS, organized scientology has again set it up so that at least some of the funds paid for flag services from those outside of the US again go to an entity outside of the USA for holding until services are delivered. While this is in and of itself not illegal, it’s interesting. Could it be that history is repeating itself here and part of the money is misused? I don’t know but given their track record it should be looked into).

The other part of what was behind the “need” for the IAS had to do with so many millions of dollars of the funds of organized scientology being subject to refund claims. This was mostly the unused portions of advanced payments made for services at orgs.

Even in 1982 and 1983, although the total of potentially refundable advanced payments then were far less than they apparently are now, it was still a major issue and we were wrestling with this subject during the entire corporate evolution and its many changes.

One of the very attorneys who was working on this with myself and my crew, later just came up with the basic IAS plan legally as a way to deal with all the above.

In short, it would result in the bulk of the monies being able to be outside of the USA, it could potentially build millions of non refundable money and, it was hoped by them, it would all be out of the jurisdiction of the IRS and other federal US governmental agencies (even safe from damages claimants) so DM and his folks could pretty much do whatever they wanted with it.

The trick now was how to sell it to scientologists using PR and lies. Public scientologists were already paying fortunes for auditing and training. How could organized scientology get them to ALSO pay to the IAS (memberships and straightforward donations)?

Missions were sent to research membership organizations and other such things. Also missions were sent to pull off one of the greatest scams on public scientologists in the history or organized scientology. It was made to look like somehow all these concerned scientologists from around the world somehow joined together for freedom or whatever, wrote the founding document for the IAS and somehow voted it into existence.

Organized scientology actually pulled it off to make it look like this was somehow like the signing of the declaration of independence in the USA, some great, spontaneous, altruistic and brave deed towards freedom

The truth was very different. Missions actually vetted what public scientologists would go to the key events to pull this all off, the founding document was drafted by attorneys and PR people not “the public” and in short it was a well timed operation pulled off by DM and his folks to trick the public into thinking they were behind all this and somehow the IAS was put into existence for altruistic purposes.

Just like was done in so many other areas of the “corporate evolution” of organized scientology, the public was fooled with the set-up of the IAS.

There are three people who can give evidence to prove all aspects of this and more are willing to speak out as well.

(Wait until the truth is published about such things as WISE, for example, where you will see the Hubbard telexes and the like to show it was initially a covert way to fund the GO criminal defenses (for MarySue, Jane Kember, etc.) and then evolved to be a way to control all public scientologists in business and get more money from them. The GO was getting funded by missions back then but it was not enough to also cover the criminal defenses).

I can tell you with zero doubt that there were tremendous lies behind the formation of organized scientology’s corporate structure and that it was built around total central control reflecting both Hubbard’s and DM’s paranoia.. It was to hide assets from others and to “protect” and hide those that covertly ran organized scientology.

Understanding the above being behind the formation of the IAS, leads me to form my own opinions behind what is behind the “ideal org” buildings. I have seen many things about the funds being raised for these buildings including events, newsletters, mass emails, etc.

For example, there was that Vancouver Ideal Org newsletter that I talked about on one of the radio programs I was on with Bruce Hines. They raised a million or so in money and pledges using celebrities at events and creating award levels to “recognize” donors like they did with the IAS.

Another example is that in the past four months or so I have seen at least a dozen emails from the head of the San Diego “church” pleading for others to donate funds for buying their ideal org building. One email even begged them to sell their jewelry and other valuables to donate for purchasing the building. Again, like the IAS, it pushed levels of recognition for donors, the greater recognition for the greater amounts of money donated.

But look at something here. It is well documented that orgs getting these new buildings are actually contracting and not expanding. Their PR that they are expanding and thus need new buildings is total bull. Once again organized scientology lives off lies and false perceptions.

And once again as it did with some of the IAS funds, organized scientology is deceiving its own public to give it non refundable funds that it can control from a central source and hopefully (in its view) keep away from government bodies and/or damages claimants.

If the local churches needed bigger premises as they were expanding so quickly, why can they not pay for same? The reasons are: 1) they are NOT expanding and 2) international management rips off all the money they can from local orgs leaving them without even enough to take care of their own staff. Then the public are deceived into paying more.

Scientology is not just built on lies to the broad “wog” public at large. It is also built by deceiving its own public and staff.

The thing is when you confront most scientologists with things like this, they will argue with you as they truly have no idea they have been deceived by their own “church” top management. They are in the main not bad people at all. They have been duped and truly have no clue of the real facts.

So there you have it, IMHO.

Much more to come.

Larry Brennan - LovingLife625 (SME)


Bolding added
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Nice letter SoS - and I get where you're driving at. Trouble is, according to KSW, the reason Scientology is not working for you is that you have no faith in the tech. Accordingly, it is incumbent upon those administering the refund process to entice you back in for another dose and, as per the SP/PTS scripture, to use ALL MEANS NECESSARY. I'm not sure where you are but there are any number of references here as to the most effective way of securing your refunds. I would suggest that you look up those references and apply them. It seems the most effective way is to go via legal authorities charged with maintaining a watch on the goings-on of "charities". Good luck. Please let us know how you get on.
 

Sis O' Sign

Patron with Honors
Hi folks again, thanks for the views and info! Yes, I did suspect that IAS was not an arm of angels...

Veda, that was a heavy read from Larry Brennan, wow!

I'm not sure if they consider you a "threat" to handle by 2pm unless you have threatened legal.

Good luck! And I hope you'll let us know the progress on your refund! :yes:

Well, 2pm gone, even Pacific Time, no any answer, after exactly one week. Which falls beyond the definition of "promptly and immediately", I reckon.

So if you ppl want to read a little bit, I might post my letter here. Just to raise the gradient a little bit.
 

Freeminds

Bitter defrocked apostate
Any money that you can get back, you should try to get back. And keep trying. Naturally, ignoring you and leaving you to wonder what's going on is a part of their game. They hope that (being a reasonable person) you'll decide that it's not worth getting upset about, and that you'll close that chapter of your life, and move on.

All they ever wanted from you was your money, or your labour to extract money from other people. Now they have as much money as they're going to get from you, and it all goes quiet. No surprise there.

Policy requires that any refund is paid out of present-day income from the org. Your money has long since been passed up-lines and spent on out-of-court settlements, a print-on-demand facility that they don't know how to use, repainting an old ferry and pretending it's a cruise ship, buying a new doll's house for David Miscavige to live in... or whatever.

This is significant because there is so little "raw meat" nowadays that any refund exes can obtain will be a more significant downstat. A growing cult might always have enough income from new members to pay off the ex-members... but a shrinking cult can't do that.

Your refund could be enough to close an org.

On that basis, I'd say it's worth fighting for. Laws vary from one country to another, so be wary of getting advice about what you should do via the Internet. I know what I'd do, where I live... but that doesn't necessarily help. Get proper legal advice, and see if they recommend initiating action. A letter from a lawyer ought not break the bank.

Above all, remember that they're hoping you'll give up and go away. A lot of people do... but the Scientology Cult loses a lot of court cases, or settles before a ruling goes against them.
 

Sis O' Sign

Patron with Honors
On that basis, I'd say it's worth fighting for. Laws vary from one country to another, so be wary of getting advice about what you should do via the Internet. I know what I'd do, where I live... but that doesn't necessarily help. Get proper legal advice, and see if they recommend initiating action. A letter from a lawyer ought not break the bank.

Thanks Freeminds, that's a sound advice.
 

Sindy

Crusader
Here's another angle:

I don't know how this works in your country but here, in the US, the monies paid toward the actual membership, either Annual of Lifetime, are not tax deductible.

The only monies that are tax deductible are those paid as pure donations ABOVE the membership.

The reason for this is that the Internal Revenue Service here, in the US, considers that a person actually gets something in exchange for the membership:

a) A regular mailing of the magazine
b) Discounts on books and services
c) Special seating at events :melodramatic:

and all the things the IAS touts as benefits of membership (real or imagined).

So, if this works the same in your country, and if the monies you paid were for memberships and were not considered pure donations, you could argue that you got no benefit from the membership and should be entitled to a refund.
 

AnonKat

Crusader
IAS poon them !!!

A quick question I was thinking about:

If the International Association of Scientologists was a standard and legitimate Scientology operation, it would need to apply the policies written by Scientology founder L.Ron Hubbard fully, right?

That would be the only way for them to protect Scientology.

Ya think?

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=8526

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=423164&postcount=29

http://forums.whyweprotest.net/threads/ias-scientology-refund.59288/

http://www.holysmoke.org/mm/mm15.htm

http://carolineletkeman.org/sp/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1042&Itemid=155
 
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