Is there any good in Scientology?

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by Wedinn, Dec 28, 2018.

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  1. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    I never mentioned Dean Wilbur in the post reply,

    what are your views of classical rhetoric?
     
  2. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    you should, ever hear of Boolean Logic.

    It applies to Hubbard, namely no clears or OT's.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boolean_algebra
     
  3. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    OK, I'll answer your questions - not that it will make the slightest difference to your mindset I'm sure.

    About three or four years on and off.

    I started as a test marker and ended up as Tech Sec.

    I was an HGC auditor (class IV) for most of my time in the org. I was also chosen by the powers that be to go to Saint Hill and be on the first Standard Dianetics course under Gilbert Black who was sent from Flag by Hubbard to run it. I also did the HDG (Dianetic Graduate) course so I could C/S Dianetic pc's folders.

    If an idea has been verified scientifically I'm more likely to give it credence than I am to what I now know are the words of a con man and shyster.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
  4. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Silver Meritorious Patron

    Well, again I don't usually hold forth on things of which I know little.

    But...

    I suppose I think it's dangerous particularly if it's good. It can be used to distract the mind and circumvent the heart; condemn the valorous and exalt the villainous and even if proffered to just and noble ends it still tends to obscure that which it praises.

    And yes, the use of rhetoric in DMSMH is egregious leaning off to odious and at times rather noxious particularly those passages relating to abortion which are, to say the least, distinctly pre-feminist.

    And yet I don't begrudge Hubbard his rhetoric excess. DMSMH is no bestseller without the rhetoric much less the "publishing phenomenon" it became and it's substance remains compelling
     
  5. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Compelling? For whom?

    By the way, the apostrophe in your 'its' is superfluous. Stratty - grammar nazi IC.
     
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  6. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Silver Meritorious Patron

    Thank you for some clear simple answers.

    The last question is the one which generates more complex response as well the ideas that have shaped and altered my mind set over the years though we are both of an age when serious change of belief is common.

    Scientific verification is a two edged sword. Hitler provided scientific verification that murder factories could be engineered in modern civilization for the extermination of a substantial and significant minority. Nor is scientific verification ever going definitively to express the meaning of great works of art either from the perspective of the producer or the consumer. What was invariably verified for centuries in Newton's work tumbled end over teakettle with Einsteins' (no typo on the apostrophe, his old lady punched in big time on Relativity)

    And arriving now at matters of the mind and spirit and even more the heart and soul...

    Science? Thou art a scaly creature of fang and claw.

    What might you say of mind and spirit, heart and soul and That Which Is Greater Than Ourselves?

    A zen silence is probably the best any of us can pony up but in short and incomplete I'm a christian and an auditor



    And adding in your most recent comment...

    I'll speak for no one else but I'm not The Lone Ranger and Billy Blowdown isn't Tonto.
     
  7. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Silver Meritorious Patron

    O yeah...

    I'm not going to try to convince myself much less anyone else that the brash redhaired kid from the western plains was not a con man and a shyster (though if I were to check the definition of shyster he might dodge that bullet). And he earned a devil's dictionary of other pejoratives as well.

    But his fields wheat along with chaff for those who shall take his issue to the threshing floor.



    P.S. Next time you see The Grammar Nazi Officer, tell her I have a vintage cask of Amontilado she might like to sample some quiet evening...
     
  8. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    You get clear simple answers because I'm a clear simple person.

    By the way, it's Einstein's theory not Einsteins' theory. Sorry.

    Mind yes, spirit no. Heart yes, soul no.

    Furthermore, I know I harp on about it, but you rubbish science at the same time as it is science itself which has provided you with the means to do it - by which I mean your computer (or in your case the library's computer).

    And doubtless you wish to remain willfully ignorant instead of taking up my suggestion of asking a library assistant how to cut and paste.

    Oh, and as for the Amontillado, I don't drink, sorry. You'll have to devise another cunning plan.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
  9. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Silver Meritorious Patron

    I certainly do not rubbish science. I am very much a scientist myself and as I have reported I used proper scientific method after my best friend's death to predict a method of early detection independently verified by MGH with the predicted blood test.

    Such things as art and the spirit don't rend their more profound truths to scientific method.

    Common usage does have it as Einstein's theory. He published his wife did not. I and many others accept Einstiens'
     
  10. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Close, but no cigar - sorry. :biggrin:

    By the way, music is all about mathematics and painting and drawing involves perspective, two very scientific factors I believe.
     
  11. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Silver Meritorious Patron

    Not you, you're the I/C

    And if the officer is also a teetotaler, why should I devise when the collected works of Poe have so much suited to a Grammar Nazi Officer.


    Mrs. Einstein produced a huge contribution to Relativity

    but

    Her name isn't on the paper

    You win.

    And I prefer cigarettes joints and exotic pipes
     
  12. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    It is a well known fact that Albert's wife contributed to his research. Too bad her name didn't get on the paper, perhaps it was because she was a woman. Speaking of which, Jocelyn Bell was responsible for "one of the most significant scientific achievements of the 20th century" but failed to get her fair share of the Nobel prize awarded to her male colleagues; probably for the same reason. Life sucks don't it?
     
  13. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    boolean logic, if hubbard's best seller was true, that would a "1",

    that ain't true, hence it get's a "0". Mathematics.

    Hubbard's DMSMH ain't on no best seller list as we speak. That's a "0".
     
  14. The_Fixer

    The_Fixer Class Clown

    My ex wife had it when she was 13 for behaviour management. In my opinion, she should have been shot not shocked. (Well, not really).
    Didn't find out about it until we were married. Among a host of other little goodies that she kept rather quiet.
    ECT is done only for severe things now under strict conditions and most importantly, with the patient's consent. I also believe it is performed under a general anaesthetic as well, which greatly reduces patient distress.

    At least it is in Oz.

    Here's a little personal story: http://www.ibpf.org/blog/my-experience-ect-0

    All I know about Thorazine is that it is an anti psychotic mainly used for treating bipolar and schizophrenia.
    Perhaps the question to be asking here is what is life like without it? I should imagine for some it would be a godsend and for others, the opposite. No one thing ever fits all.
     
  15. The_Fixer

    The_Fixer Class Clown

    Yeah I remember watching those shows as a kid.
    Sonny didn't have a lot of nice things to say about her either.

    But I also believe he thought he owned her, as would have been the prevailing attitude of the day.

    Who to believe? Maybe both..
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2019
  16. The_Fixer

    The_Fixer Class Clown

    You, CP, a scientist?

    Seriously?

    Seriously, seriously?

    Seriously, seriously serious?

    I think that'll do for now....
     
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  17. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Silver Meritorious Patron

    Yes sir.

    Very seriously. I am well grounded in scientific principles and method and can apply them with result.

    I am also into that which transcends science; art, philosophy, ethics, religion, faith, the heart, astrology, tarot, baseball and the next pretty girl to speak of luau and grass skirts with her hips as she moves gracefully down Haight Street
     
  18. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Silver Meritorious Patron

    My father was electrozapped twice and died at 53.

    I was railroaded into the clutches of the shrinks in '75 and again in '80 and dianetics was a big part of undoing most of the damage the filthy materialist shitbuckets inflicted
     
  19. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Silver Meritorious Patron

    Our esteem of dianetics is at wide variance Gib.

    What's your opinion of Bogart?
     
  20. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Silver Meritorious Patron

    Music is about whatever the musician makes it about

    And I suspect the mathemeticians would be hard pressed to come up with alogorithms to corral Janis Joplin or Lady Day.