Is there any good in Scientology?

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by Wedinn, Dec 28, 2018.

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  1. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    I got that message Gibby.

    I don't know exactly what he meant in saying that he failed. He apparently wanted to be some sort of planetary El Primo Maximo and he wanted to produce "Homo Novis" with extraordinary capabilities. One of his students, Leonard Cohen came up with words which might have been inspired by him and seem to fit him; "he was starving in some deep mystery like a man who is sure what is true" and "he was looking for that card so high and wild he'd never need to deal another"

    It was good to hear he said that. It reeks of sanity. I remain among those who are both impressed by and grateful for the man's many successes. The materials which are not confidential available, back then, at CLIV orgs contain astonishing insight into the mind and spirit which in the hands of men and women of good will, and I would add most particularly those who bind themselves to judeochristian sensibilities, have great practical value.


    Very pleasant to have you on speaking terms with me Gib.
  2. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    Agreed. I was particularly impressed with Ron's greatest success--traveling to Target II.

    That win was beyond my wildest dreams! After I heard that Ron went into deep space after having killed his body, I was off auditing for quite an extended time on a persistent F/N.
  3. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Behave yourself Hoaxie or I'll get Immigration Services to deport you back to Helatrobus
  4. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Cohen's probably turning over in his grave hearing you attribute his words to that shyster Hubbard. 'Stranger Song' was recorded in 1967 and probably conceived a lot earlier whereas he never got involved with scn. until 68/9.
  5. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    A soul so transcendent as Leonard Cohen is not so terribly bound to time...

    We know when he was active but it is highly likely he was engaged with discussion with friends about Scn and Hubbard for years before he took any courses. One would not think Leonard Cohen would just walk in cold off the street and sign up.
  6. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    If you read the background story (about how he drove past that big blue building, (the name of the dump escapes me momentarily) with Joni Mitchell) that is more or less what happened.
  7. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    If HelluvaHoax gets deported to Helatrobus I expect a HelluvaTrophy.

    After all, doing advanced research is difficult riding around in an intergalactic Bluebird MotorSpacecraft.
  8. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    I'd like to see that story if you can pony it up sometime.

    It was his recommendation that got me in the door. I was walking by the Berkeley mission in March of '71 and one of the things I saw in the window was Cohen saying "I always find something in Scientology".
  9. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    To be perfectly candid I'm more likely to deport Immigration Services to Helatrobus than you Hoaxie...
  10. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    1. I take he said he failed because he said he failed. What's not show in the vid is also he said he's not coming back. It might be in Lawrence Wright book.

    He failed and he's not coming back. What's the motto of the Sea Org - We Come Back. There have been no recorded evidence of anybody coming back claiming their pc folders. Nor the LRH.

    LRH is a scam and his dianetics and scientology are also.

    2. It's not sanity, he's a madman with a dream using classical rhetoric to persuade.

    3. If he said he failed, why did he allow the scam to continue. Why didn't he issue a memo saying such to all those involved in his mocked up game?

    4. Once you die, there will be no more judeochristian people here claiming LRH was a great man or some of his works are worthy.

    I'd like to here your views of classical rhetoric instead of your poety and whatever.
  11. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Well, your mentor L Ron Hubbard developed scientology to help the able become more able. If you cannot master simple computer skills such as copy/pasting and internet searching I'm afraid Hubbard would say you are beyond salvation and should be disposed of quietly and without sorrow. C'est la vie.
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  12. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    According to his biography, "I'm Your Man", one of the reasons he left scientology was that "disenchantment had set in, as well as anger that the organisation had begun to exploit his name" .

    That sign in the window could have been a major footbullet for the org.
  13. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    Er, I beg to differ. LRH HAS come back. Haven't you been keeping up?

  14. PirateAndBum

    PirateAndBum Gold Meritorious Patron

    Kinda appropriate that the returned Hubs is an ex-con.
  15. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    what's the color of his tie?

  16. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    I notice he describes himself as coming from an 'upper middle class' family. I wonder whether his grandfather owns a quarter of Montana.
  17. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    As it happens, I've never had an interest in developing computer skills and I'm now in my seventieth year in severely deteriorating health. The spirit remains lively and though the mind often fails to summon well known facts - good heavens! four days to come up with Paul Desmond as the composer of "Take Five"?!? I should be deported to Helatrobus - it too remains lively and both receptive and creative.

    Yeah, Ron might hang me

    Or he might not

    And you are quoting the worst flaw in SOS. I red-lined that passage in the book when I read it as I did other of Ron's writings which cut against the grain of my own flawed but fairly well developed judeochristian sensibilities.

    The strengths of his work remains. Auditing is a noble calling and in the hands of intelligent men and women of good will it can certainly be used to good result
  18. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    I wouldn't mind an opportunity to read Dean Wilbur but, not being a liberal I don't usually hold forth on subjects of which I know little. Hubbard's use of rhetoric in DMSMH was egregious and it was obvious on sight. Over many years I've made several attempts to give "Book One" a second reading none of them have lasted very long.

    Yes, Gibby, all ESMB members of judeochristian inclination who found value in the study have long since been run out of here
  19. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    When I said computer skills, that gave it more significance than it deserved. Not being able to cut/copy and paste is equivalent to owning a car but not being able to change gear (yes, I know most cars have automatic transmission but you can see my point - I hope). It's simply pathetic. Don't you use the computers in a public library? I'm sure one of the assistants there could spare the two minutes it would take to teach somebody of normal intelligence how to do it - although having said that I know people who still don't get it after weeks of coaching - the mind boggles!
    Bollocks! Pure, unadulterated bollocks.
  20. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    As it happens I am a bit distraught at the absence of support and assistance I've had. I had one truly great friend, Billy Martin and I've given account of the surcease I brought to him in his last weeks. His friendship was the single great asset in my life since the cataclysmic divorce I suffered. Other than that, the moments when I have made use with good effect of my skills as an auditor have been spontaneous and what I've done has been so absent of "I" that although I can see the result I've in no way fixated a person's attention on myself. Such conduct is the instruction from scripture.

    And if it's all "bollocks" to you so let it be.

    I do have a couple questions should you be so kind as to respond...

    How long were you on staff? What was your post? Did you spend any time in the chair as an auditor?

    What ideas and beliefs would you not consider bollocks?