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Islamic jihadists behead six-year-old boy because he was Christian

Student of Trinity

Silver Meritorious Patron
Which religion is a vicious cult of hatred? The sect of the jihadists who do things like this? Sure. Islam in general? No.

There are about a billion Muslims in the world. Islam is mostly an unorganized religion, with no official bodies to define doctrines. Any bunch of wackos can claim to be Islamic.
 

BunnySkull

Silver Meritorious Patron
Which religion is a vicious cult of hatred? The sect of the jihadists who do things like this? Sure. Islam in general? No.

There are about a billion Muslims in the world. Islam is mostly an unorganized religion, with no official bodies to define doctrines. Any bunch of wackos can claim to be Islamic.

I'm not a fan of any religion, but all the muslim "extremism" I see Christians gnashing their teeth about they tend to ignore when similar extremism and intolerance occurs in their own religious communities too. I've known many christians who think non-believers, gays, feminists, etc...have no place in society and firmly believe the western democracies would be much improved if run as a Christian theocracy. Violence? Sure they've killed gay people and assassinated abortion providers due to their beliefs.

As for this evilness in Africa cited above? Well the citation on this is a bit vague with any real news source, names and place mentioned but much like Hubbard using exact figures for his BS its used a tool to make propaganda seem more real. Africa is plagued with terrible crimes and violence like this, muslim related and non-muslim related. Violence like this occurs for religious reasons or because of politics or because of greed or because of poverty or because of ignorance/evil -- basically it occurs regularly for no good reason at all.

In Liberia last week you had people in the slums of Westpoint raid and loot an Ebloa isolation ward. There are many problems in Africa, religious extremism is just one of its plagues, and believe me the crazy christians cults there can be just as bad as the muslim. It's the ignorance and extremism that are the real problems, as always.
 

Student of Trinity

Silver Meritorious Patron
What's a 'religious community'?

More than two billion people self-identify as Christian, spread across all countries and cultures in the world, and none of them can do anything about it if anyone else decides to call themselves Christian, too.

Muslims are in a similar situation.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
I agree about the inconsistency of certain Xtians. But...I think there are inherent and intrrinsic problems in Islam, just as there are in Scn. There also are in other Abrahamic religions but I think not as much as with Islam and they've got a better track record in modifying their behavior and customs as a response to social and internal pressure.

IMO, fundie Moslems are far stricter than fundie Xtians or Orthodox Jews. Sharia law is a scary thing and it's very much alive. Fundie Islamists prohibit laughter!!! They have jihads. The only other religion I can think of that does that (there were the Crusades but those ended centurues sgo) is Scientology in its policy, carried out constantly by CofS.

There are numerous accounts of honor killings. The only analagous example I can find with Xtians is abortion clinic bombings and murders and there're far less of those than there are honor killings. Or maybe some of the FLDS' actions, though people tend not to call them Christian.

Btw, I'm a fan of Ayaan Hirsi Ali.
 

GreyWolf

Gold Meritorious Patron
I'm not a fan of any religion, but all the muslim "extremism" I see Christians gnashing their teeth about they tend to ignore when similar extremism and intolerance occurs in their own religious communities too. I've known many christians who think non-believers, gays, feminists, etc...have no place in society and firmly believe the western democracies would be much improved if run as a Christian theocracy. Violence? Sure they've killed gay people and assassinated abortion providers due to their beliefs.

As for this evilness in Africa cited above? Well the citation on this is a bit vague with any real news source, names and place mentioned but much like Hubbard using exact figures for his BS its used a tool to make propaganda seem more real. Africa is plagued with terrible crimes and violence like this, muslim related and non-muslim related. Violence like this occurs for religious reasons or because of politics or because of greed or because of poverty or because of ignorance/evil -- basically it occurs regularly for no good reason at all.

In Liberia last week you had people in the slums of Westpoint raid and loot an Ebloa isolation ward. There are many problems in Africa, religious extremism is just one of its plagues, and believe me the crazy christians cults there can be just as bad as the muslim. It's the ignorance and extremism that are the real problems, as always.

Agreed re the "Christians" in Uganda.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Phuck Islam and all fault ridden abusive beliefsets...even if one were friends with them on Facebook. (Kidding)
 

BunnySkull

Silver Meritorious Patron
IMO, fundie Moslems are far stricter than fundie Xtians or Orthodox Jews. Sharia law is a scary thing and it's very much alive. Fundie Islamists prohibit laughter!!! They have jihads. The only other religion I can think of that does that (there were the Crusades but those ended centurues sgo) is Scientology in its policy, carried out constantly by CofS..

You might want to read deeper about some of the orthodox Hasidic Jewish sects. When it comes to their treatment of women I don't see much difference between their laws and behavior and very strict muslims and in some ways its worse. Women are second class citizens, baby machines. They must have all their skin and head covered at all times (the truly strict make women shave their heads - they then wear wigs as head coverings in public). Their husbands are allowed NO contact with them while they are "unclean" - (i.e. during their period) and women must have a ritual bath (milkvah) after their period ends before their husbands can touch them.

If there's any question if they are still unclean (mensturating) they have to submit their underwear to a rabbi for inspection. (Not kidding) He can then declare the women clean or unclean.

Sons are to be educated, but only in Jewish religious law. Women, no education at all except for homemaking skills. Women are not allowed to talk to other men without their husbands being present. Birth control is forbidden. Marriages are usually arranged and at a young age - under 18.

I could go on. As I said the problem all comes down to the extremists in a religion. I don't think any Abrahamic religion has proved to be one of "peace." Regardless of what is written in their scared texts the reality is they have caused much war, suffering and misery.
 
You might want to read deeper about some of the orthodox Hasidic Jewish sects. When it comes to their treatment of women I don't see much difference between their laws and behavior and very strict muslims and in some ways its worse. Women are second class citizens, baby machines. They must have all their skin and head covered at all times (the truly strict make women shave their heads - they then wear wigs as head coverings in public). Their husbands are allowed NO contact with them while they are "unclean" - (i.e. during their period) and women must have a ritual bath (milkvah) after their period ends before their husbands can touch them.

If there's any question if they are still unclean (mensturating) they have to submit their underwear to a rabbi for inspection. (Not kidding) He can then declare the women clean or unclean.

Sons are to be educated, but only in Jewish religious law. Women, no education at all except for homemaking skills. Women are not allowed to talk to other men without their husbands being present. Birth control is forbidden. Marriages are usually arranged and at a young age - under 18.

I could go on. As I said the problem all comes down to the extremists in a religion. I don't think any Abrahamic religion has proved to be one of "peace." Regardless of what is written in their scared texts the reality is they have caused much war, suffering and misery.
I have a Jewish friend who's daughter married an orthodox Jewish boy - she wears a wig the same color as her hair over her hair - he is studying to be a rabbi. While my friend's thrilled to have a grand child, I was a bit taken aback by the wig bit. I know plenty of Jews that have essentially two kitchens ( double dishwashers, sets of plates etc,) in one, because of their religious food beliefs, but I was unaware of the way they treated their women. Oy! Mimsey
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
You might want to read deeper about some of the orthodox Hasidic Jewish sects. When it comes to their treatment of women I don't see much difference between their laws and behavior and very strict muslims and in some ways its worse. Women are second class citizens, baby machines. They must have all their skin and head covered at all times (the truly strict make women shave their heads - they then wear wigs as head coverings in public). Their husbands are allowed NO contact with them while they are "unclean" - (i.e. during their period) and women must have a ritual bath (milkvah) after their period ends before their husbands can touch them.

If there's any question if they are still unclean (mensturating) they have to submit their underwear to a rabbi for inspection. (Not kidding) He can then declare the women clean or unclean.

Sons are to be educated, but only in Jewish religious law. Women, no education at all except for homemaking skills. Women are not allowed to talk to other men without their husbands being present. Birth control is forbidden. Marriages are usually arranged and at a young age - under 18.

I could go on. As I said the problem all comes down to the extremists in a religion. I don't think any Abrahamic religion has proved to be one of "peace." Regardless of what is written in their scared texts the reality is they have caused much war, suffering and misery.

I have read about all those things and they suck. It's a major beef I have with them. But they still aren't holding their daughters down while they suffocate them. Or their sisters.
 

Leland

Crusader
I was channel surfing last week & this interview caught my eye... it clearly represents the complete bastardization of the Muslim faith.

[video=youtube;p5a60F8AgpI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5a60F8AgpI[/video]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/08/...slim-cleric-makes-911-joke-during-soundcheck/

Just like to add.....

ISIS is not just killing Christians...and Kurds.

They are also killing Muslims that won't "convert" to their brand of Islam......and their brand of Islam leaders...
 

Student of Trinity

Silver Meritorious Patron
I agree about the inconsistency of certain Xtians. But...I think there are inherent and intrrinsic problems in Islam, just as there are in Scn. There also are in other Abrahamic religions but I think not as much as with Islam and they've got a better track record in modifying their behavior and customs as a response to social and internal pressure.

IMO, fundie Moslems are far stricter than fundie Xtians or Orthodox Jews. Sharia law is a scary thing and it's very much alive. Fundie Islamists prohibit laughter!!! They have jihads. The only other religion I can think of that does that (there were the Crusades but those ended centurues sgo) is Scientology in its policy, carried out constantly by CofS.

There are numerous accounts of honor killings. The only analagous example I can find with Xtians is abortion clinic bombings and murders and there're far less of those than there are honor killings. Or maybe some of the FLDS' actions, though people tend not to call them Christian.

Yeah, once one accepts that Islam is not just one simple thing but a sort of an extended clan of related things, with a lot of variation, I'd agree that there are some basic features in Islam that seem problematic. I don't think of them as fatal flaws, but rather as weaknesses; issues where the tradition itself provides too little net help against bad things.

By 'net' help I mean that there will be some strains of tradition pulling in different directions, and so although you can point to some that are great there will be others, with a lot of weight of tradition behind them, that pull the other way. For instance you can find a few Koran verses that sound very egalitarian, but against them there's quite a mass of verses and interpretative traditions and sayings attributed to the Prophet, all tending rather to subordinate women. So what I'm talking about with 'net' help is a kind of aggregate.

I think it's possible for a religion to change that kind of net balance, in a reform from within that decides to emphasize some strains of tradition over others. You can always declare one verse to be basic, give it a strong and simple interpretation, and insist that everything else be interpreted in light of that basic verse, and made to conform with it. To me it seems that Islam as a whole stands in need of a few such reforms.

In one way it seems that could be especially easy in Islam, because the main (Sunni) tradition of interpretive authority is that it is the general collective belief and practice of all Muslims together that is infallible. As I understand it, if a majority of Muslims just decide to go with a shifted interpretation, then the shift is — not just in practice but also in principle — Islam. In some ways, though, I think this may also make it harder for Islam to change. The Christian churches have a centuries-long tradition of church councils in which designated clergy hammer out official positions, and to this day even quite small Christian denominations make a point of defining and re-defining just what they believe. There are no comparable authoritative bodies, as far as I know, in Sunni Islam; just a lot of independent academics and lawyers who can all offer their individual judgements.

I've always thought that the saving grace of Christianity is that, even though it has gone through long periods of political power and cultural dominance, it began with political failure and cultural impotence — and by the nature of Christian belief, the beginning of Christianity is permanently authoritative. So it has always been possible for Christians to hark back to Jesus and say, Hey, stop now: we are not really about any particular language or custom or social structure; Christ's kingdom is not of this world.

But whereas Jesus was executed as a criminal, Muhammed died as the successful theocratic dictator of Arabia. Islam did not spread by mass forced conversion, but it did spread through conquest: Arab armies overran the whole Middle East and populations gradually adopted the religion of their new rulers — in part, to get tax breaks. So the foundational ideal of Islam is about a specific society that was exactly what God commanded, and in whose establishment violence had played a legitimate role. I don't think that makes Islam inherently jihadist, but I think it does mean that Islam has a jihadism vulnerability that will be tough to patch.
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Which religion is a vicious cult of hatred? The sect of the jihadists who do things like this? Sure. Islam in general? No.

There are about a billion Muslims in the world. Islam is mostly an unorganized religion, with no official bodies to define doctrines. Any bunch of wackos can claim to be Islamic.

Islam has a body of defined doctrine. It is divided into the Quran (which according to Islam was divinely dictated to Mohammed) and the Sunnah, which is further divided into the Hadith (quotes from Mohammed), and the Sira (biography of Mohammed). The collection of sources define Islamic doctrine, just like the New Testament defines Christianity, and the Old Testament and the Talmud define Judaism.

Taking an analogy from Judaism, you can have a spectrum from Utra Orthodox to Reform, with one end demanding strict adherence to the scriptures, and the other end being pretty loose, but ALL points of the spectrum agree on what strict adherence means, and differ primarily in their views of what degree is necessary.

Similarly for Islam, you can have people who call themselves Muslim, but who do not adhere strictly to the precepts. This does not mean that they don't understand what strict adherence means. And then there's the serious Muslims.

Islam, by its founding nature, is a religion which was founded by a desert bandit -- by a caravan robber who graduated to pillaging towns and then entire regions. Mohammed was a robber, a murderer, an enslaver, and a rapist. His actions are recorded. There can not be any denying of who he was.

And the Quran explicitly proclaims Mohammed to be the model which all Muslims should emulate.

For a Muslim, there is NO wiggle-room about what Islam wants from its adherents: partake in jihad until the entire world is brought under Islamic domination. The only wiggle-room is in the degree of participation.

A Muslim may directly participate in violent jihad. Financially supporting a jihadi, though, is also counted as participating in jihad, as is giving aid and comfort to jihadis in other ways. As an example, the "sexual grooming" scandal in the UK is part of jihad: taking the girls of the infidels and making them sex slaves is a way of imposing domination on the infidels. Mohammed did it, therefore it's OK.

What a Muslim may NOT do, and still be considered a Muslim, is to directly oppose jihad. He may speak out and say a particular jihad action should not have been done because the out-PR hurts Islam, but he may not say "jihad is evil because non-Muslims have equal rights and therefore it is intrinsically wrong to harm them"
 

Leland

Crusader
Islam has a body of defined doctrine. It is divided into the Quran (which according to Islam was divinely dictated to Mohammed) and the Sunnah, which is further divided into the Hadith (quotes from Mohammed), and the Sira (biography of Mohammed). The collection of sources define Islamic doctrine, just like the New Testament defines Christianity, and the Old Testament and the Talmud define Judaism.

Taking an analogy from Judaism, you can have a spectrum from Utra Orthodox to Reform, with one end demanding strict adherence to the scriptures, and the other end being pretty loose, but ALL points of the spectrum agree on what strict adherence means, and differ primarily in their views of what degree is necessary.

Similarly for Islam, you can have people who call themselves Muslim, but who do not adhere strictly to the precepts. This does not mean that they don't understand what strict adherence means. And then there's the serious Muslims.

Islam, by its founding nature, is a religion which was founded by a desert bandit -- by a caravan robber who graduated to pillaging towns and then entire regions. Mohammed was a robber, a murderer, an enslaver, and a rapist. His actions are recorded. There can not be any denying of who he was.

And the Quran explicitly proclaims Mohammed to be the model which all Muslims should emulate.

For a Muslim, there is NO wiggle-room about what Islam wants from its adherents: partake in jihad until the entire world is brought under Islamic domination. The only wiggle-room is in the degree of participation.

A Muslim may directly participate in violent jihad. Financially supporting a jihadi, though, is also counted as participating in jihad, as is giving aid and comfort to jihadis in other ways. As an example, the "sexual grooming" scandal in the UK is part of jihad: taking the girls of the infidels and making them sex slaves is a way of imposing domination on the infidels. Mohammed did it, therefore it's OK.

What a Muslim may NOT do, and still be considered a Muslim, is to directly oppose jihad. He may speak out and say a particular jihad action should not have been done because the out-PR hurts Islam, but he may not say "jihad is evil because non-Muslims have equal rights and therefore it is intrinsically wrong to harm them"



Interesting....so when Muslims are called upon, in the West, to "speak up against the" what ever is going on......such as ISIS.....they can't and still be a Muslim.
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
You might want to read deeper about some of the orthodox Hasidic Jewish sects. When it comes to their treatment of women I don't see much difference between their laws and behavior and very strict muslims and in some ways its worse.

Does Hasidic Judaism condone "honor killings"?

Does Hasidic Judaism allow grown men to marry six year old girls, and start fucking them when they turn nine?

Does Hasidic Judaism allow Jewish men to enslave Gentile women?
 

Lone Star

Crusader
Islam has a body of defined doctrine. It is divided into the Quran (which according to Islam was divinely dictated to Mohammed) and the Sunnah, which is further divided into the Hadith (quotes from Mohammed), and the Sira (biography of Mohammed). The collection of sources define Islamic doctrine, just like the New Testament defines Christianity, and the Old Testament and the Talmud define Judaism.

Taking an analogy from Judaism, you can have a spectrum from Utra Orthodox to Reform, with one end demanding strict adherence to the scriptures, and the other end being pretty loose, but ALL points of the spectrum agree on what strict adherence means, and differ primarily in their views of what degree is necessary.

Similarly for Islam, you can have people who call themselves Muslim, but who do not adhere strictly to the precepts. This does not mean that they don't understand what strict adherence means. And then there's the serious Muslims.

Islam, by its founding nature, is a religion which was founded by a desert bandit -- by a caravan robber who graduated to pillaging towns and then entire regions. Mohammed was a robber, a murderer, an enslaver, and a rapist. His actions are recorded. There can not be any denying of who he was.

And the Quran explicitly proclaims Mohammed to be the model which all Muslims should emulate.

For a Muslim, there is NO wiggle-room about what Islam wants from its adherents: partake in jihad until the entire world is brought under Islamic domination. The only wiggle-room is in the degree of participation.

A Muslim may directly participate in violent jihad. Financially supporting a jihadi, though, is also counted as participating in jihad, as is giving aid and comfort to jihadis in other ways. As an example, the "sexual grooming" scandal in the UK is part of jihad: taking the girls of the infidels and making them sex slaves is a way of imposing domination on the infidels. Mohammed did it, therefore it's OK.

What a Muslim may NOT do, and still be considered a Muslim, is to directly oppose jihad. He may speak out and say a particular jihad action should not have been done because the out-PR hurts Islam, but he may not say "jihad is evil because non-Muslims have equal rights and therefore it is intrinsically wrong to harm them"

Very good summary. Unfortunately many in the west, and on this board, can't deal with this info. They'd rather say, "Oh but Islam is really a religion of Peace and these terrorists are just extremists who've hijacked the religion". Then someone points out how their reasoning is flawed and full of sophistry, they'll then say, "Well Christianity is bad too!!! Just look at the Inquisition! Or the witch hunts! Or the Catholic church pedophilia! Oh and those orthodox Jews!! Terrible!"

Yeah, okay. Just keep saying that and comforting yourself with how "open-minded" you are until you're either dead or under Sharia Law. You'll go from "open-minded" to "open-throated".
 
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