Karen de la Carriere YouTube Channel Part 2

Discussion in 'Scientology-related Videos' started by Karen#1, Dec 19, 2015.

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  1. lotus

    lotus autonomous rebellous

    I couldn't find the proper word to describe the path as you did just perfectly.

    I my rom at Flag, there wasn't any door between the toilet and the shower...I let you imagine, especially in regard with the fact that many SOrgers are people without any education on good manners... some have been recruited almost in the streets ...

    But hey..no problemo..all this is okay...but if you are caught
    That speaks a lot for the fact that we were treated like a flock and also the total absence of critical thinking and evaluation of what is considered ''bad'' and out-echics versus what is okay per circumstances.

    That reminds me of how I was stunned at the fact we were to be naked all together and go pee while the other one was soaping next in the shower because we weren't allow sufficient WC and shower rooms , but when they caught a woman kissing a guy at night (I mean just a quick innofensive kiss) ..Whooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo the crime ...ladies and gentlemen..the crime...
    it got punished with a high ethics gradient...:eek:

    I mean the sea org is a psychotic mini-society , managed with a kit of sociopath rules applied by dehumanized people trained to treat their fellow like a flock...like in a slave camp.

    But hey..tough guys in the sea org are proud to be tought in standing those conditions..like soldiers on the war ground..but..there is no war..and this is not a war ground... :eek:
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2018
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  2. lotus

    lotus autonomous rebellous

    Guess that we did figure it out too.
    But unfortunately the shower was a tiny shower allowing only one to come while the other was going out while another one was peeing just aside and the other one was brushing teeth the other side...

    If it would have been possible, we would have been order to come 5 at the same time to save hot water and money..that is for sure..you bet.

    Also that would have make a nice bunch of RPF prospects to be ''prosecuted'' for homosexuality ...when they are short of EPFers... :cool:
     
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  3. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    I pretty much agree with your assessment. As a recruiter our favorite target demographic were 18 - 21, High School grads or first 2 years in college, while they were in a rebellious period and before they were invested in jobs, homes and family. They had to be the kind of person who would tolerate a complete bait and switch - the difference between what a recruiter promised them and reality, at least until they could be properly indoctrinated on the EPF. The other prime recruitment demographic would be 2nd and 3rd generation where they are conveniently pre-indoctrinated.


    In earlier periods people in the US were less focused on living standards. Now we are heavily focused on detailing our living arrangements. No private bath, internet, phone or plasma?! That wasn't in the brochure. Just look at Miscavige's obsession with pimping out Ideal Orgs. That was never Hubbard's thing and he even advised against it. Orgs were supposed to be clean, presentable and suitable to the purpose but not extravagant. Sure Hubbard put a bounty on opinion leaders and celebs and he wanted rich and influential public but it was still mostly a movement for the "capable" masses. DM is clearly aware of how people's preferences have changed so how do you build a work force that is supposed to cater to such a snooty public when staff need to be indoctrinated into tolerating such a low standard of living?

    So the eternal question: Why do otherwise intelligent people join the Sea Org and stay?

    I even thought about this while I was in the Sea Org living in a congested dorm, being eaten alive by bed bugs. We could see each other on post with big red welts on our arms and going up our necks and over our faces - so degrading. Rice and beans, no TP, bad teeth. Clearly there were mature successful looking people on staff. Higher echelon units like the CMO had better berthing, their own chef and servants. So maybe they selectively retained these people with another standard of treatment? Going "Over the Rainbow" to be closer to Hubbard was supposed to be normal and sane, unlike what we had because of somebody's failure to apply standard policy...which would eventually be corrected in the next LRH ordered Eval. But stick around long enough and you will see even those people eventually get RPFed or disappeared.

    The only answer I have to this is that people will endure a lot if they think it will enable them to attain Bodhisattva - the ability to recall past lives and full operational awareness between lives. To choose your affluent parents in the next life and remember where you put the keys to the bank lockbox in the last. Levitating ashtrays, curing cancer and saving humanity by virtue of the sheer number of OTs all being significant fringe benefits.

    Millions of very intelligent people for thousands of years have been willing to sacrifice a lot out of faith in spirituality and the many magical attributes to being a spiritual being. Maybe these things are possible and maybe they aren’t but for people to join the Sea Org and stay in spite of what they are experiencing they only need to believe that Scientology actually makes this possible. But if anyone could do it then why need Scientology? It must be difficult and because it is difficult it must require dedication and the subject will be complex. The complexity of Scientology is like an irresistible puzzle challenge to someone who thinks they are intelligent. They don’t get it yet so they must push on to the next level for it to make sense, read the same things over and over. Half a million dollars, 3 or 4 decades, and thousands of BTs later it’s truth revealed so do you eat crow and walk away or double down on all the bad choices that got you this far?

    The problem with intelligent people is they overthink things. We see it everywhere. Intelligent people buying into solutions that create or worsen the problems they are trying to solve. For all the complexity they miss the simple and obvious. I also think that there is an aspect of slavery or subservience that is part of human nature. On one extreme there is Stockholm Syndrome and on the other there is the innocent relationship between a child and a parent. I think Hubbard’s genius is that on some level he dialed into the sweet spot where an intelligent person could be enslaved. The smart young adult right out of High School is breaking away from parental control but doesn’t have enough life experience to recognize something like Scientology using their intelligence against them and manipulating their rebellion from one authority right back into another.

    So we have this strange dichotomy (a real word, not just used by Hubbard) where people who choose to endure severe abuse, deprivation and degradation are believed by affluent intelligent successful people with high living standards to be able to train and audit them to a state of Bodhisattva.

    I think this dichotomy broke down under Miscavige's abuse and purgings and he could no longer trust the workforce to run the con. It required people who had a semblance of compassion, sanity, free will and intelligence to convince the paying public that what they were being taught and the auditing they received was real and valuable. The more people were free to discuss the inconsistencies and logical fallacies of Hubbard and Scientology on the internet the more the bubble needed to contract to include only the most uninformed and vetted people. Uninformed doesn’t necessarily mean unintelligent. But people in the US, after nearly 70 years, are highly informed or at least have ready access to information so they must recruit people from countries with less exposure and where anything “USA” is held in high regard. But they need these recruits exactly because they are accustomed to denser housing and lower living standards so the staff vs public dichotomy deteriorates even further compounded with a lower level of fluency in English. This would help explain the abandonment of the lengthy Saint Hill Special Briefing Course and the obsessive emphasis on the more mundane Study Tech.

    With enough bubble censorship, information control and heavy ethics why bother to maintain the embarrassing, expensive and tedious appearance of training and auditing when you can get people to just give you money for nothing - IAS donations for Status, Ideal Orgs and all the other lofty world saving
    stated goals?

    I think the Ideal Org agenda is an admission that the old con had run it’s course and all that remains is a final milking of the faithful before this too runs it's course and the bizarre dystopian reliance on video screens and ScioTV belies the lack of faith that the staff can properly represent and sell Scientology to a sophisticated public.
     
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  4. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    I always knew SO wasn't for me, even at my most gung-ho. For me the quasi-military aspect was the big turn-off. The Vietnam War had just ended (1975) and I considered myself very fortunate to have missed it. Also there were no SO where I was (Hawaii) so I hardly ever saw them.

    I did share a few apartments/houses with other staff members and that got a little crowded and sometimes gross, but nothing like what you describe. And my parents lived not far away, so I could go over there once in a while and do laundry or stay the night and get a good night's sleep. We didn't talk about scn much. I think they were happy that it kept me away from drugs and that I was actually trying to talk to them for a change after years of no communication.

    Yeah, it would all be worth it if the promised gains were actually there, but as we know, they're not. And if scn really did make OT's, why couldn't the OT's mock up better conditions for everybody else? That's one of the things that drove me away: if the tech is so great, why are conditions so bad? Why can't we get paid? Why are people blowing all the time? If the "tech" is so great, we should be getting better results.

    I never experienced bedbugs while I was in scn, but unfortunately I have experienced them since. Really bad news! I recommend this stuff highly: DIATOMACEOUS EARTH. It kills bedbugs (and any other insects) and is non-toxic to humans. If you have bedbugs, this will get rid of them. You can get a 4-lb. bag (much more than you'll need) for under $10. If you have these critters, go for it. It's a life-saver! (As always, read the directions carefully!)

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2018
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  5. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    The bedbugs were pretty awful. I had them in several rooms on different floors in Lebanon Hall. You kind of roll around half asleep scratching yourself all over until you realize you are being eaten and jump out of the bunk to turn on the light to go hunting for them. I remember someone telling me how they were working at the Manor and lifted an area rug and found a lot of bedbugs under it so this was probably fairly widely spread amongst their buildings at the time. I got so I could walk into a room and recognize the acrid pungent smell of a bedbug infestation - one of the more lesser known OT powers.

    But you're right, this disconnect between the actual conditions in and around Scientology, the promised expectations and the rest of the world has always been a huge red flag for everyone to see and how people continue to disregard it is an amazing phenomenon.

    Many of these same people would turn right around and walk away from a hotel much better than this but they will commit their lives to the SO.
     
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  6. Karen#1

    Karen#1 Gold Meritorious Patron

    Adrian Vanegas was 17 years old and had just graduated high school in his hometown of Bogota. He had been attracted to Scientology by its study technology. He quickly signed a 2.5 year staff contract and was appointed as the Director of Communications for the Bogota Org. Located in a private home in an upscale neighborhood, it would be twenty-five years before David Miscavige would pull a rope to open the big new 8-story Scientology Org in downtown Bogota. Adrian recounts many interesting stories of his time on staff in Colombia and gives us a look into Scientology in Latin America. Adrian left Scientology in 2005 and did a slow fade out from the organization.
    He also worked at Los Angeles Org (LA Day for 5 years)

    *******New Video*******

     
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  7. Karen#1

    Karen#1 Gold Meritorious Patron

    Adrian worked at Los Angeles Org for 5 years. It used to be called LA Day before it merged with LA Foundation (night org) as it was not sustainable.
    When he worked in Bogota Org a Pablo Escobar bomb went off which impacted the org. His stories are really good...


    [​IMG]
     
  8. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    Yes, it slices up the exoskeletons of insects and they dry up. You can increase it's effectiveness if you mix it 50% with boric acid as this enters the slices in the insects exoskeleton and burns them to a crisp. You can even eat diatomaceous earth, as it is named for the million year old razor edged diatom skeletons it consists of and contains no dirt residue like "earth" implies, you can eat the stuff if you want an organic solution to intestinal parasites as the stuff is just made of calcium. I would think that the digestive juices inactivates it's effects on parasites quickly if you do eat it but many organic nutritionists do recommend it.
    I poured a small pile at the bottom of the interiors of each wall frame before it was sheet-rocked to prevent insects, especially termites when my house was being built, The results have been that I never have insect problems for very long as they get killed off after entering the house and find their way into the wall cavities to nest so I never have had to use pesticides inside though I do use them outside around the foundation.
    You could use a small funnel and pour some into your wall cavities through small openings inside your wall plates and in spaces around air vents. This would work almost as well as these are the most likes points of entry for small insects like ants and termites.
    When I first moved to Florida I'd get sugar ant invasions that would find their way in and they would follow each other in a wave of continuous sugar ants. I would sprinkle a little diatomaceous earth and boric acid on their path and watch them walk across it and begin to wobble madly and fall over dead right in front of my astonished eyes!
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2018
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  9. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    Actually, we do eat it, as it's mixed with grain when it's stored to kill insects that want to eat the grain. Then later the grain gets made into bread, cereal etc. that we consume.

    I hadn't heard of eating it for intestinal parasites. I wouldn't think that would work very well since my understanding is the stuff has to be dry to be effective, and your saliva, digestive juices etc. would immediately get it wet. I've heard of people mixing it with water to spray on plants so it'll stick to the leaves, but with the understanding that it won't start working until it dries out.

    I never got as creative with it as you did. I just put the powder in an old ketchup squeeze bottle and sprayed my mattress, couch and surrounding areas with the stuff. (Wear a mask when spraying. You don't want to inhale this stuff, or any fine particulate matter.) I've done this on two occasions. Each time, no more bedbug bites after one application. Works like a charm!

    I've also sprayed it in the kitchen behind my stove and refrigerator. Didn't see another cockroach for months. The effect wears off eventually, but it lasts for a long time.

    This is one of the few products I've used that really lives up to its reputation. Nice to find someone else who knows about this wonderful stuff!
     
  10. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    Yeah, I don't advocate it for intestinal parasite and can't use it for gardening during the time of the year that I need insect control - the summer rainy season. Gets washed off and dissolved.
    But it will outlast your house when dispensed into your interior walls as it's already millions of years old when it's mined and when put in a dry interior wall space there is nothing to break it down. After all it lasts in the bag indefinitely.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2018
  11. Karen#1

    Karen#1 Gold Meritorious Patron

    ****New Video****
    Former Sea Org member Peter Nyiri discusses stories from his time in the Sea Org. Stories include the gifts David Miscavige received from Sea Org Orgs twice a year; the BMW shown in the thumbnail references the BMW David Miscavige received from a forced collection of Sea Org's meager stipend. Other stories include 90 hour work weeks; loss of canteen privileges; sleep deprivations; and punishments for not meeting money targets. This is all part of the hellish and punishing life that is the Sea Org.
    The BMW you see is a Birthday gift from mandatory payments from staff pay for David Miscavige.
    Money was just taken out of the payroll for expensive gifts

    for El Chapo Miscavige.
     
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  12. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Yes, and it wasn't just Sea Org staff that were required to stump up for expensive gifts for 'The Founder' on his birthday etc. Even as a fully-indoctrinated zombie staff member in 1968 it rankled when I was asked to contribute towards buying an expensive hand-built camera (a Gandolfi) for the fat bastard. As if he didn't have enough money!
     
  13. TomKat

    TomKat Patron Meritorious

    Prior to his death, LRH was more or less worshiped as the originator of the scn tech. After his death that worship was transfered to Miscarriage. I've never understood how people who stayed in the church rationalized this. Anybody here who made that transition from worshiper of LRH to Miscarriage? How did you rationalize it? Thanks.
     
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  14. George Layton

    George Layton Silver Meritorious Patron

    If a person could rationalize worshiping hubbard for the origination of his scientology tech couldn't they rationalize worshiping little dave for Keeping It Working?
     
  15. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Karen,

    Could you ask Peter if staff are being ordered or coerced to voting Republican, such as in Big Blue's district, or given other voting instructions?

    TOBB
     
  16. Karen#1

    Karen#1 Gold Meritorious Patron

    The Original Big Blue.

    I did ask Peter about Scn cult coaching on voting and this is what he said(in summary)

    Although OSA was very careful to state they do not deal in politics, an issue would come out in all in baskets.
    It would state so and so is pro psych and so and so voted for increased funding for psychiatry
    So and so is hostile to Scientology. Everyone should draw their own conclusions and vote accordingly.


    This is the cult workaround telling people who to vote for.
     
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  17. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Thank you Karen.

    That is about what I would expect. Seems the takeaway is that they actively steer staff voting couching their position in Scientologese in a way to not trigger a backlash based on the individual's political leanings. I would expect that since staff do not have time to keep up on politics and are essentially banned from viewing or using devices that provide political content, that they are essentially dependent on what little direction the organization gives them.

    It is informative to know that they are not overtly pushing a left or right position or openly indoctrinating crew to vote Democrat or Republican or the equivalents in other countries based on general leftist vs rightist platforms. On one hand they seem to be fielding political candidates who lean distinctly right but on the other they are attempting to co-opt NOI which I take to be far left. However, it would be interesting to know if Miscavige is discretely trying to push a personal political orientation down the organization that can ultimately alienate one side or the other. I have the sense that that is happening.

    TOBB
     
  18. Cat's Squirrel

    Cat's Squirrel Gold Meritorious Patron

    But this reliance on "whales" is a highly risky strategy because if they made their money themselves, they're going to be the kind of people shrewd enough to notice things and ask questions.

    Sooner than later some of them are likely to start asking what is happening to all the money they've been handing over and what the end product is, and it won't be as easy to pull the wool over their eyes as it will a bunch of well-meaning twenty somethings at an outer Org. And after that happens Miscavige's lawyers will be up against theirs ...
     
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  19. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Another way to look at the whale strategy is as a lack of portfolio diversification. Scientology was successful as a grass roots type new age movement that was affordable to everyone. Hubbard himself made the calculated shift away from that to an elitist strategy with the "Inflation" increases in the late 70s. Official inflation generally runs between 2 - 4% annually but not 5 - 10% every month! We can speculate that his personal reasons for doing this were a final push for money to fund his bugout bag following the FBI raids or paranoia led to a mistrust of raw public and higher prices would serve as a kind of prequalifier to vet out the nuisance DBs and SPs. Miscavige was an 18 year old messenger when this was happening around 1978 so I'd expect this to be his most basic indoctrination orientation and the 82 decimation of the Mission Network seems to support this.

    It does seem strange that otherwise affluent and business savvy people would just give away money like this but I suspect much of this serves as a cost of doing business within Scientology business networking circles. I could be wrong about that but there does seem to be a very incestuous relationship between the Scientology organization, it's vendors, Scientology public owned businesses and each other. These dealings in Colombia seem to hint at even deeper incestuous relationships with public officials and possibly even interpol so is there a revenue stream from the trading of information and paying current or former officials as lobbyists?

    We often characterize Scientology as a kind of mafia but the truth may be closer than we think and I would not be surprised to learn that the Ideal Org strategy was just a good old fashioned money laundering scheme. At this point the "Scientology" in Scientology looks more like a front for something completely unrelated to what they want us to believe they are. Is Scientology a Chinese Laundry with a counterfeit money print shop in the back?

    The numbers just don't make any sense. Estimating 4000 - 5000 Sea Org members, their real estate portfolio, legal & PI expenses and things like SMP & ScioTV - no matter how you look at it they have a very high overhead in relation to Scientology services delivery. We have largely accepted that these donations derive from people's earnest belief and faith in Scientology and that shore story might hold true for some people but I have to think there is more to it than that.
     
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  20. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    I have always believed that these desperate worshiping sycophants are the most vivid example that there really are such things as degraded beings. How could one be anything else if one worshiped BOTH of them? It's like double jeopardy as each is and was the very essence of unworthiness of worship, adulation or even basic respect. MONSTERS!
    Of course there were many who got in to Scientology and Dianetics for legitimate and honorable purposes but the common denominator of the group is the lack of L. Ron hysteria later transferred upon DM. And this would seem to be the larger group.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018