Churchill
Gold Meritorious Patron
The current DNC co-chairman, Keith Ellison was a member of the Nation of Islam.
Many of the CBC members are still tied to the Nation of Islam, even though they publicly withdrew from their 1993 "sacred covenant."
Leah Remini discusses Politics...and the Cult responds
- Thread starter Leland
- Start date
The current DNC co-chairman, Keith Ellison was a member of the Nation of Islam.
Many of the CBC members are still tied to the Nation of Islam, even though they publicly withdrew from their 1993 "sacred covenant."
Glenda
Crusader
My bolding.
Yes. We also have a real international human rights violation issue. Because of the strong need for adherence for religious freedom - the separation of church and state - the state is not able to effectively provide human rights protection to citizens which every man, woman and child is equally entitled to. There are so many documented violations of the human rights codes that scientology has been (is) involved with, it would take massive reports to prepare and present them to an international court if a pathway could be found to such an action.
Imo we need to move in that direction. I'm not kidding. If only we could get an international human rights lawyer to look over all this. The abuses have to stop. If govt agencies won't (or can't) intervene in accordance with the legal requirements to international covenants then maybe it is time to step out of domestic governance systems and play hard-ball.
I feel very strongly about this. I partly agree that domestic prosecution actions are valid and necessary but there are much bigger issues here. The fact is this is not just "an American problem". It is an international problem. Even if a nation does not recognise scientology as a religion (activating separation of church and state), there are inherent international human rights violations contained within the policies/directives of scientology. I will not list them out here for it would require a lengthy analysis.
I contend that citizens that participate in scientology (no matter where that may occur) are being opted out of sovereign nation human rights without their consent or knowledge. This cannot be done. Nations ratified into the international laws hold legal obligations to uphold international law to protect their citizens. So while there are alleged crimes (alleged until proven in due process i.e. a court), there is also the bigger issue of international human rights violations, abuses, erosion and dilution.
I've thought about this a lot over the years. Nations are hamstrung with the need to keep church and state separate. I strongly believe Hubbard knew that when he pushed for religious cloaking. In effect if an entity has religious recognition by a nation, it elevates that entity above various domestic laws. It shouldn't be but it tends to. Agencies are very reluctant to take on crimes reported from religious groups. There's probably various reasons (resources/budgets, etc) but there is also this requirement for church and state to maintain separation. Hence the members of a religious group - and those that leave that group - are vulnerable to interference and erosion of their internationally recognised human rights. It becomes a dangerous environment where abuses can go unchecked.
As unpopular as what I am about to say may be, I actually do not subscribe to the idea that the cult of scientology pays off agencies. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. In reality all the the cult has to do is hit the nerve "state messing with church" and bingo.
Let me put this in simple language. My government (NZ), your government (whichever nation you are a citizen of) is required by law to uphold protection to every man, woman and child to legally ratified human rights codes. International law. Scientology absolutely erodes/dilutes that and is getting away with it because of the elevation above law it is afforded by religious status. It has to stop!
How am I doing OSA? Which one of us is the most full of fear?
Glenda
Crusader
Not sure but a good question. I am a little over domestic courts dealing with this abusive group. But that I mean it is ineffective and does zero to slow down the abuses. Scientology just throws vast sums of money at lawyers and continues on its merry way to do exactly what is needs to do to be alignment with the abusive policies/directives as set down by L Ron Hubbard.
Here's an example:
Universal Declaration of Human Rights
“Article 19.
Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.”
Ha! Oh dear here we have a real problem. Freedom of opinion and expression….mmmm. Without interference? Oh dear. Both when in scientology and after I left this has been nothing but an eroded human right. Every ex-scientologist that speaks out fears disconnection from loved ones, fears all manner of things. That is an abuse of an international human right, and granted protection by sovereign nations that have ratified into the UN codes.
Scientology members are not allowed to freely express their opinions without interference. OSA holds all the power when it comes to interaction between scientology members and the world.
I could sit here all day and quote Articles, listing out the violations scientology is involved in.
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Glenda
Crusader
Exactly. To a fairly large degree their hands are tied. It is too hot for them to touch. It is too involved and too expensive to pursue. So...
There are many ways to skin a cat, as the old saying goes.
I for one, am totally over this abusive group violating human rights and not being held accountable. Even as I write this I am aware that OSA monitors this board and I could potentially per their own damn policies/directives start some sort of campaign to try to silence me.
I just got louder! I am a New Zealand citizen and no one, not any entity, not any person, can silence me . No one can opt me out of the rights that every man, woman and child holds per the internationally ratified laws my country upholds.
Universal Declaration of Human Rights:
“Article 12.
No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.”
Who is protecting me from scientology? Just because it has religious status does not remove my rights as a citizen, equal with all other citizens of NZ. My reputation and honour could be ripped apart by scientology (hate web site?) and I'm just meant to suck it up? I think not scientology!
Scientology had a go at my honour and reputation when it claimed it had never asked me to spy at the funeral of a dead scientologist (Paul Cooper). OSA claimed I lied, that "it never happened". I stood up to them then and took back my rights. I will stand up to them over and over until this abusive group is brought into check for the endless abuses it dishes out under the protective religious cloaking. I am tired of seeing broken hearts because of this groups cruel interference with families (ref: disconnection). I am tired of watching the heart-ache and shattered lives. It doesn't matter if scientology believes the man in the moon is made of cheese (I've always hoped that might be true cos it amuses me) or if it worships fluffy bunnies on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays. None of this is about belief. It's about behaviour and lessening the rights of citizens whether they be in America, New Zealand or Australia. It's about abusive behaviour which violates international human rights laws.
Scientology interferes with family and privacy, and consistently attacks the honour and reputations of people. How many hundreds, if not thousands, of instances could be documented of just these types of human rights violations? Then after that we could gather another small army to document how scientology violates Article 18.
Universal Declaration of Human Rights
Article 18.
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.
But who is going to listen? Who is going to call to account this group called scientology which charades as an ethical group and hides behind religious cloaking as it pisses all over international laws?
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It is not only those who speak out who fear it, those who don't say anyting, won't out of fear. Disconnection is a tool used by Scientology to control those who are, were and have loved ones in the organization. Some speak out knowing full well the reprocusions of "the church", but cannot be silent any longer. Others hold their tounges in hopes (sometimes in vain) it'll allow their other familiy memeber connect or reconnect.
I would like to say in all honesty people are waking up, and the end is near, but I fear this is not true. Scientology has withstood thus far, but people are outraged now. I recall in the 80s they were then too. Scientology had been recieved it's "religious standing", then lost it, then won it back. If the number of scientologists vs exscientologists were to drop (direction they're going) and EVERY ex-scientologist was to speak out against the church, then it might stop Scientology. The fact is, that isn't about to happen, there are still too many in scientolgy that will deny it, there are also so many who still believe scientology's fundimentals are not flawed and then add to that the number of people who won't speak out to try and hold onto the lines of communication with their loved ones still within the church.
They day may come, but all this was said about Christianity too, and over the last 2,000 years it's prevailed.
As for the political, within Scientology, not as a public member but as a Sea Org member, I cannot recall there EVER being anything political, it was the stance of CoS that the government was evil and we're not taking part in it, we have to clear the planet. Even as a child in Scientology it wasn't hard to pick up that message
cleared cannibal
Silver Meritorious Patron
I think all churches tend to be nervous when the government goes after a religion for what ever reason and tend to protect that religion thinking they could be next. Let's face it I am not sure the beliefs of Scn are that much more strange than many other religions. It is absolutely a losing strategy to go after Scn based on beliefs, rightfully so in my opinion.
Human rights abuse are a possibility but many SO from 3rd world countries may think they have died and went to heaven in the SO. I am not sure but I think we are seeing more and more from these places where the situation is truly desperate. To them rice and beans beats no rice and beans and a verbal face ripping is better than a sword across the neck. It is hard to go after them for human abuse when so many in think they deserve the abuse, a true mind fuck or they are in the best situation of their lives.
Human rights abuse are a possibility but many SO from 3rd world countries may think they have died and went to heaven in the SO. I am not sure but I think we are seeing more and more from these places where the situation is truly desperate. To them rice and beans beats no rice and beans and a verbal face ripping is better than a sword across the neck. It is hard to go after them for human abuse when so many in think they deserve the abuse, a true mind fuck or they are in the best situation of their lives.
EZ Linus
Cleared Tomato
Maybe you can't see it now, but since the 1980s the Internet was born and it has all but ruined Scientology's numbers bit by bit. People did not speak out the way they do now. Books have not been published they way they are now. More and more train tracks get laid and maybe you have not been able to see the evolution, but it's there.
By the mid 1990s ARS arrived and the key trailblazers set the movement into action. You might think it was Haggis' letter. It looks that way because he's a celebrity, but it really started back with the Fishman Affidavit. As a matter of public record, people were able to see what was on the OT levels and some of the sneaky shit the cult was doing, however, it was former Flag cramming officer Dennis Erlich (though Wikipedia denotes Arnie) as the first to post the actual OTIII materials to ARS, among other confidential Hubbard bulletins. This resulted in a years-long copyright lawsuit on Erlich, DM raiding his house, confiscating and deleting files and hard drives, books, etc. (LA Times footage). Later the Lisa Mcpherson Trust was formed by Hemet hole escapee Stacy Brooks with the man who aided in her rescue, Bob Minton. These people did so much for the anti-Scientology movement, it isn't funny, yet they were criticized for various moves they eventually made after DM's multi bully corporation backed them into corners, but some people were able to "sell out," as some have accused. And as far as I know DM has not even tried to slap any lawsuits on Leah or Mike.
I think it is getting better. Don't fret.
By the mid 1990s ARS arrived and the key trailblazers set the movement into action. You might think it was Haggis' letter. It looks that way because he's a celebrity, but it really started back with the Fishman Affidavit. As a matter of public record, people were able to see what was on the OT levels and some of the sneaky shit the cult was doing, however, it was former Flag cramming officer Dennis Erlich (though Wikipedia denotes Arnie) as the first to post the actual OTIII materials to ARS, among other confidential Hubbard bulletins. This resulted in a years-long copyright lawsuit on Erlich, DM raiding his house, confiscating and deleting files and hard drives, books, etc. (LA Times footage). Later the Lisa Mcpherson Trust was formed by Hemet hole escapee Stacy Brooks with the man who aided in her rescue, Bob Minton. These people did so much for the anti-Scientology movement, it isn't funny, yet they were criticized for various moves they eventually made after DM's multi bully corporation backed them into corners, but some people were able to "sell out," as some have accused. And as far as I know DM has not even tried to slap any lawsuits on Leah or Mike.
I think it is getting better. Don't fret.
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