Literally what to do!

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Whattodo, May 1, 2017.

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  1. Irayam

    Irayam Patron with Honors

    I had such a friend when I was in. No "invalidation" from him during all those years.
    He even resist the few poorly tries to suck him in.
    And when I finally left, he said nothing, not a single "See, I told you".
    This is a friend I have since 12 years old, and I hope he will continue to be my friend till I die.

  2. Whattodo

    Whattodo Patron with Honors

    I'd reveal more but i don't know who is snooping and who can be trusted.

    Things are getting worse however, they are becoming more involved and have got their children on staff now.

    Just feel like banging my head in frustration and telling them they are nuts and will potentially have huge regrets down the line. But their purpose is higher than anything else right now!!! Well and truly brain washed.

    They need to find money I am suspecting too going on a couple of comments.
  3. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    If they are asking you for money help maybe you could tell them you don't have any available but would recommend they contact a famous Celebrity who might be able to advise them on how to deal with getting up the bridge.


    Tell them they can contact Leah Remini through the A&E website. :omg: :biggrin:
  4. Boson Wog Stark

    Boson Wog Stark Patron Meritorious

    In GOING CLEAR, Wright introduced a trait of Scientologists which separates them from members of some other cults. He came upon it while pondering how Paul Haggis, a liberal, free-thinking, creative Hollywood type with a critical mind, could be a Scientologist.

    When Haggis was in Scientology, he associated with a lot of other people in the industry who are not Scientologists, and was aware of what was going on in the world, not cut off. He called the trait Haggis had, being a "contrarian." These are skeptical people who question the status quo, and accepted norms.

    You described it well, an example being the talk you heard in the sauna. Scientology attracts many skeptical people and some are like Haggis, enjoyed belonging to a group which is sometimes maligned for being so different and full of unusual concepts and what Scientologists think of as critical thinking about what you mentioned -- ruling elites, drug industry, psychiatry, etc.

    So when Scientologists are asked why they don't know the history of their own group, or of Hubbard, they bristle at the suggestion. That isn't important, they think. They are the group which challenges all else, including the status quo. They have the bridge to freedom and all the answers. That can't be questioned! It's something you do, and then it's something you know.

    What they don't see is that all the things you mentioned, questioning authority, the ruling elites, government, the evil psychs -- these are all things Hubbard did, so Scientologists, who think they are finding themselves, are being trained to think and be like Hubbard, complete with his cognitive dissonance, for example, his paranoia but feeling superior, including having superpowerz.

    One time on an outing with some followers -- his wife told this story -- Hubbard tried to make some ripe apples fall from a tree using only the powerz of his mind. He failed. He couldn't make one apple fall from a tree. On another day, a very windy day in a city, he went out and used the power of his mind to knock some people's hats off. He was more successful at that.

    If I were a Scientologist (I was never one), I think that if someone told me that Scientology was not about finding yourself as much as it was being like Hubbard, then I would be curious about who Hubbard was, and how Scientology worked in his life.

    I would then reason with them that since Hubbard's achievements in this science of the mind seem to have taken place from 1950 on, his life is very well documented, unlike the founders of older religions. Rather than seeking a glorified biography of his life put out by Scientology, which has an interest in selling Hubbard books and courses, I'd recommend to them to read Miller's Barefaced Messiah, which is a more accurate biography.

    Of course, this isn't going to reach someone who is deep in. But I think the question in your head, "Why then would you not question COS and its past if you are so skeptical about everything else?" is an excellent one to voice.

    Of course, one problem is that Scientology does two things: It creates a glorified past for Hubbard and Scientology, which is sanitized of things which aren't glorious, like Hubbard's 22 year old son Quentin committing suicide, although he was an expert in the tech.

    And the other problem is that it is forbidden to have doubt, and question things about Scientology, which trains you in loopy concepts like how to be certain about certainty. If there's one thing you can be absolutely certain of it's that Scientology works and it helps people. Any questioning of this constitutes having bad thoughts about Hubbard. Maybe a Scientologist could be asked, "Are they really good core concepts to have, if you really want to have an open mind, and learn to think critically? Shouldn't you be able to question everything, and look at both sides of things, including Scientology?"

    Scientologists are afraid of having those thoughts, because they might lose their "wins" and gains, and end up in the dwindling spiral, and darkness for the next trillion years.

    Well, unfortunately, I don't have any good suggestions.
  5. Whattodo

    Whattodo Patron with Honors

    A lot of valid points but it goes to show how trained their minds are that they can't think beyond reason!

    Creating doubt about the ethics of the org being out might be a route!
  6. Gizmo

    Gizmo Rabble Rouser

    Ah, on one hand people are free to choose the religion of their choice - how dare I infringe on that, it is none of my business ! Leave 'em alone.

    And, on the other hand, their are people have been lied to, deceived, had the truth hidden from them. Perhaps as a minor their parents put them in this religion & they made no individual choice. Help them ! Get involved !

    So, my friends that are in that " church " ( that I damn well know is a cult no ifs, ands or buts about it ) & are happy to burn through all they earn, all they inherited, & all they can mortgage their home & max their credit cards because they think they are helping " save the planet".
    They are happy doing what they are doing.

    Then, there is SO staff, here in a foreign county ( or not ), dead broke, no friends outside the group, no skills to get a job,etc etc etc but they are very afraid to leave - now wrap that in fearing their eternity is at stake if they leave !

    So, I have a choice of what I think I " should " do - just like a person in a cult has to make a decision about their own future.

    As long as someone wants to be in a cult there is nothing legal I can do to get them out - dragging 'em out kicking & screaming ain't it.

    All I can do is figure out a subtle way to roll in a grenade of truth with the pin pulled & hope it opens a crack in the armor.

    I suspect there is no one size fits all - - - - - - or everybody would have already been gotten out. But, Hey ! Lots are leaving ~!

    Keep up the good work !
  7. Whattodo

    Whattodo Patron with Honors

    Very true when put like that, now where can I find that grenade! Although I nuke might be quite fitting!
  8. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    I understand you are just using metaphors but grenades and nukes are kind of a racket anyhow. Now hurricane Leah, with her blowing truth from those who have, been there done that, is still I think very effective.

    From what I am understanding I am more concerned about you and your employment are you giving some thought to a possible alternate?
  9. EZ Linus

    EZ Linus Patron with Honors

    It is such a catch 22, for sure. I personally don't think the person deep in the cult is capable of making a decision about their future because they don't live in reality. They don't even know what the future even means. But still, you can not drag them out and prove to them what IS. You can only plant you seeds and be there for them. Just make sure they feel safe to call on you when they want to leave.
  10. Gizmo

    Gizmo Rabble Rouser

    I'd guess most people have had - or are having the experience - that I'm having now :

    # 1 Absolutely nothing could ever get me back in the cult.

    # 2 I have friends that where they sit right this moment intend to be a scientologist forever.

    With some remarks that cast doubt on Ron would net them disconnecting from me forever.
    With others, same holds true casting doubts on the greatness of da monster.

    Talk about disconnection as wrong ? Bam ! Disconnect !

    Short of brutal miscarriage of justice by an MAA or comm ev most people aren't going to walk over doing conditions they know ain't right.
    Well, getting declared is a sudden departure, too.

    But - and this is a big but ! - for most ( as it was for me ) it was a SLOW process of getting disenchanted enough to start finding out facts.
    That light bulb seems to come on slowly & end up going from very dim to at least somewhat bright. It ain't no flip of the switch where darkness turned to brightness !

    It was a slow seduction into the cult. And, a slow seduction getting most - not all - out.

    I've started to see some chinks in the armor of friends I thought would die " loyal " & they are starting to screw up their face at some quirks that can no longer be hidden,

    Yes, it is maddening when I want to scream at my friends who share their wins & praise the tek & LRH & doing the same stupid course over up to 5 times.
    Don't even get me started on ot8's doing CCH's !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Where is the academy ? Where is the Briefing Course ? Where is the 8 course ? What is auditor training these days ?

    Perhaps one day those in will see what we see - meanwhile it's nudge ..............................nudge........................................nudge

    We are getting 'em out ! Keep doing whatever you think works !

    Well, some of us are getting old & tired - keep those fresh out - that are willing - supplied with the info they need to slow the roll of the cult even more than it has been. What info ? ESMB !
  11. Whattodo

    Whattodo Patron with Honors

    Yes but it's a little complicated and not so straightforward if you read between the lines. But I do have a backup plan or two.

    Yeah Leah remini's series has been great but I would imagine it's having a bigger impact over in America than here. It's not really had too much publicity here in the uk and not alot of people actually know who she is!
  12. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    There probably is doubt there already. It just hasn't rooted and sprouted fully yet. Nurture it if you can.
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2017
  13. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    The Aftermath has been shown at least twice in the UK
    and is currently being broadcast on the Crime and Investigation
    channel here.
  14. Whattodo

    Whattodo Patron with Honors

    Back after a short break, got a bit of catching up to do.

    Development - They came back from the rundown and then suffered from a incident where they had bleeding on the brain and had to rush to hospital. Extremely lucky for it not to be more severe and a full recovery will take time, anything mentally strenuous tires them and concentration levels are much lower. I can't help but think the stress and demands of the travel to America, the course run downs, auditing, other pressures and working on top of these may have been a cause to this. However they believe it can happen at any time and not coincidental.

    To help deal with the symptoms and aid recovery they have booked them-self in for a little help at East grinstead so no idea what they may actually be doing down there and what they can possibly do as this is a physical condition but no doubt they will believe its mind over matter and they have some sort of tech to help!

    I was hoping this event might be one of the new seeds to sow doubt but obviously not as more Scientology is the answer!!