Marriage counseling in Scientology - total failure!

[clamicide]

Some of the very best people on this board just happen to be gay ... please know that if you plan on hanging around here.

OK, yeah... I have to admit, one of the things that helped me get out of the cult was meeting incredible gay people...and listening to all these insane rantings on tapes against gay folks that Hubs tended to do...

and also, one of my favorite PCs of all time.... of one of the sweetest people I have ever met, who got kicked out of the SO for his gayness, and he just kept waiting for me to give him the auditing command that "wouldn't make him gay anymore", because he also had listened the the shit Hubs put out...

 

[LongTimeGone]

Spinning around somewhere in my head is a memory of a Hubbard tape on Marriage, in which he berates some early philosopher for having the gall to give marriage advice when he himself had many failed marriages - Only later did I find out about Hubbard's ill-fated marriages - Hypocrite.
LTG

 

[Udarnik]

Yep...Cool Thread.

Scn Marriage Counseling: A series of procedures and processes written by a high school graduate that, amongst numerous things, falsified his academic record, military service record, professional credentials, experience background, abandoned his first wife and 2 children, subsequently committed bigamy then abandoned that wife, kidnapping their child then later denied the marriage or paternity and forsook that child, set up his third wife then ran away and left her to serve hard time in a federal pen for the criminal conspiracy he inspired and masterminded, then functionally abandoned her and their three children and grandchild.

Nuff said, IMO.

Face

I think the whole Jack Parsons / Moonchild episode deserves some mention in there.

 

[Idle Morgue]

Hot off the SP Press - 2 more Oat Tea Ates have been declared in my area! Reason: They "know"!

Two other OT Five's got divorced!

Another couple: Clear and OT 7 got divorced!

Another couple: Grade 4 and Clear who finished their "L"s split!

The HELP that Scientology gives couples is straight down to TOTAL SMASH!!

 

[still here]

Despite my fairly easy SO career, I don't think I was ever a very "good" Scientologist.

I was married for a few years however to a totally committed one, (and he still is!). He did have problems in the old 2D area and when I met him had been declared for out 2D at one point with almost all the female staff...(why marry him you ask?? - No idea!!!!) I don't claim to be sane.

Anyway - true to form he had an affair with one of my juniors and of course confessed all. (when I guessed anyway)

It was enough. I ended the relationship as a bad job, however, he was very keen to get off his withholds....and stood in our flat whilst I packed demanding to tell me - I absolutely refused to hear them and said I had no interest in making him feel better and absolutely no desire to hear them! He was dumbfounded...

I don't think he ever forgave me for that - and it still makes me laugh!

Still

 

[Loohan]

Hot off the SP Press - 2 more Oat Tea Ates have been declared in my area! Reason: They "know"!

Two other OT Five's got divorced!

Another couple: Clear and OT 7 got divorced!

Another couple: Grade 4 and Clear who finished their "L"s split!

The HELP that Scientology gives couples is straight down to TOTAL SMASH!!

One thing i noticed in the '80s not long after people started getting the HRD is that not long after they finished it, they would cheat on their spouses and get divorced. I can think of at least 2 such cases, and am probably forgetting about 1 or 2 more in Austin.
So much for Scn morality tech.

 

[Enthetan]

One thing i noticed in the '80s not long after people started getting the HRD is that not long after they finished it, they would cheat on their spouses and get divorced. I can think of at least 2 such cases, and am probably forgetting about 1 or 2 more in Austin.
So much for Scn morality tech.

I vaguely remember an upsurge in people leaving Scn after completing HRD, which may be why you don't hear much of it any more.

 

[La La Lou Lou]

I wasn't married, but did bring a 2-D into the org. She was into new age, and left Scn. after dumping me for a guy she met on course.
I asked for the marriage repair deal but was told by the C.S. we had to be married (We were in a 2-d for 6 years at that point but not married)
Turns out for the best. Shes nuts anyway.
The other 2-D I had was a slut. She was flirty and cheated on me a few times (and she was a staff member)
Not to mention all the 2-D flows and flirts I got from MARRIED women and girls with 2-D's. Have to also throw in the few GAY flows I got.
One from a "Out" fag on staff and one from a closet fag who later joined the S.O.
All in all, my experience with some people in Scn. was perverted. Of course, when I mention these stories to other Scn.'s They all say the same thing: "The 2-D is the most abberated"
Recently I found a staff member (not sure if she is still on lines) who put an ad for casual sex and maybe some 420 smoking online.
I contacted her and she ignored me after asking for a pic. I told her I was off-lines but got nothing anyway.
Shame, because she would send me lots of flows when I was in the org. Especially when I was with my ex-2-d. LOL

I have noticed that some people only find someone desirable if they have a partner. It's about power, steeling someone else's love. Breaking someone else's heart, getting a prize, using and discarding the prize.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zAB-WOpQEI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_Rr5J1bk0I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufbexgPyeJQ

 

[Markus]

Scientology only has ONE dating service that we know about and that is David Miscavige's COB's secret dating service provided to those that David Miscavige, leader, deems important enough to deserve it. The Church of Scientology lies about providing Tom Cruise this service - but the truth came out.

The divorce rate in Scientology are staggering. Those stats are straight up and vertical. Here is how it works:

If you are new to Scientology and having marital problems, you will be told they provide marriage counseling. This consists of paying $700 for an auditor in training - to take you and your spouse in session. They will put one on the cans (e-meter) and ask that person in front of their spouse - WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO YOUR SPOUSE? WHAT HAVE YOU WITHHELD? This will go on until they cannot find any more sins committed against each other.

Then you will get a communication course - where you get indoctrinated into the first level of control - this is where they start to control you. Of course, because the PTS/SP course actually tells you all about suppression - you least expect the Church of Scientology and have no idea what extent the Church of Scientology will go to so that the truth is hidden and nothing but lies are promoted!!

It is too much to even conceive and all the clay demos in the world would not give you the conceptual reality of what you have really entered - an evil cult that will take everything from you in exchange for a broken spirit, a broken heart, sometimes a broken mind. Why do you think they have you sign all the legal documents? They will tell you that SP's are out to get em - but it defies reason. The only problem is - by now they have set a trap and you want more!

You may feel better after all of this - who wouldn't? You admit the things you did to your spouse and talk about them. Then you confront each other and continue talking. That makes sense.

But lets say one of partners has a problem with spending $$$,$$$ for more auditing the other one WANTS!! Well, then they are routed onto the PTS / SP course where L Ron Hubbard states: "Anyone critical of Scientology is hiding huge crimes - sordid ones like eating babies etc".

This gets the other party thinking that their spouse must be doing something really bad but is keeping it secret. This is the wedge that is slightly tapped into the consciousness and then the rest of Scientology's tech can get poured in.

Scientology now becomes a 3rd party to the conflict between the two spouses. If one wants to continue Scientology - the other one better just accept it or their marriage will be over.

So typically what happens is the other one just keeps quiet while the one doing Scientology trashes their finances. They will donate money without spouses knowledge or permission. This is encouraged by the regges and heavily promoted. "It is your freedom" who is suppressing it? One will pay for many PTS rundowns etc....and if the spouse keeps showing up as the one who is suppressing their spiritual freedom - well, time to divorce that SP!! Of course, Scientology will not tell you that directly. They covertly mask it with the tech.

If the spouses don't have a common budget and financial rules within their household solidly in place - they will be destroyed. Many families don't have this so they get creamed!

Finanical ruin is the EP of Scientology.

Don't believe me - talk to Scientologists. Many will say with no change of facial expression - "yeah, I am losing my house to foreclosure - but I got up to Grade III". "I filed Bankruptcy but I did my L11". Yes, I did refinance my home to become a humanitarian but I want to help clear the planet. No - my house is not worth what I owe on it so I think I'll just give it back to the bank".

I wish I could name names here and post the public information - but 95% of the Scientologists I know still active are broke, bankrupt or have had their houses foreclosed on. Dedicated staff members that have given everything to Scientology - losing their homes and filing bankruptcy. No emotional reaction at all from them either.

The spouse that wants to do Scientology - will be regged for courses and auditing at a rabid pace and not told to check with their spouse...in fact, discouraged. Scientology creates divorces and their marriage counseling is another "front".

Scientology creates an environment in the family where everyone is a suspect EXCEPT Scientology. Soon - marriages crumble, the families are destroyed and left broke and broken.

Very well done summary. The Church of Scientology promised my parents to handle all their Problems. My mum spent month after month in Copenhagen to get Scientology marriage counseling instead of being with her children as she did all the years before. And I can tell you we needed her more than ever at that time because only some month earlier our brother Jürgen died only seven years young. Shortly after all these lies which the Scientology registrars told them my parents split up, then two years later they were divorced.

Love

Markus

 

[Idle Morgue]

Very well done summary. The Church of Scientology promised my parents to handle all their Problems. My mum spent month after month in Copenhagen to get Scientology marriage counseling instead of being with her children as she did all the years before. And I can tell you we needed her more than ever at that time because only some month earlier our brother Jürgen died only seven years young. Shortly after all these lies which the Scientology registrars told them my parents split up, then two years later they were divorced.

Love

Markus

HI Markus ~ good to see you again!!! I am sure you have heard about the Leah Remini debacle which stirred up the David Miscavige cheating on his wife, who has been missing for several years! I have been thinking of you and hoping justice is served for the horrible things Scientology does to families!!

 

[Enthetan]

I have noticed that some people only find someone desirable if they have a partner. It's about power, steeling someone else's love. Breaking someone else's heart, getting a prize, using and discarding the prize.

Back in my unmarried days, I noticed a phenomenon where I got much more interest when I had a girlfriend than when I didn't. And these women did not initially know one way or the other that I had a girlfriend. I think it has something to do with the attitude of somebody who doesn't need their attention, versus somebody who's trying to attract it, that attracts these women. Did that communicate?

 

[La La Lou Lou]

Back in my unmarried days, I noticed a phenomenon where I got much more interest when I had a girlfriend than when I didn't. And these women did not initially know one way or the other that I had a girlfriend. I think it has something to do with the attitude of somebody who doesn't need their attention, versus somebody who's trying to attract it, that attracts these women. Did that communicate?

I think I get your drift.

Something you give off when you are happily partnered can be sensed, and it makes you more approachable.

Certainly ogling and dribbling does put potential partners off, staring eyes and giggling, looking at their chest only, grunting, all those single man things make a man quite unlovely. It's also about confidence, when you are loved you will be more confident and so more noticeable, and more loving too. People in love do tend to shine. Desperation is an enormous turn off.

 

[Enthetan]

I think I get your drift.

Something you give off when you are happily partnered can be sensed, and it makes you more approachable.

Certainly ogling and dribbling does put potential partners off, staring eyes and giggling, looking at their chest only, grunting, all those single man things make a man quite unlovely. It's also about confidence, when you are loved you will be more confident and so more noticeable, and more loving too. People in love do tend to shine. Desperation is an enormous turn off.

If you're in a relationship, you're also "pre-qualified", as in "Well if she's been with him for a while, then it means that he doesn't have any hidden bad qualities".

Plus there might also be, as you pointed out, a competitive aspect: "If I can take him away from her, then I'm better than her!"

 

[Lulu Belle]

Personally, from what I've seen, marriage counselling, inside or outside of Scientology, never works. Not in keeping people married, anyway.

I don't know whether it's the counselling itself or the fact that by the time the couple gets there the marriage is totally beyond repair.

I've never known any couple who have been in marriage counselling who actually stayed together for any significant period of time afterwords. Both Scn and non-Scn counselling.

Usually it seems like one person in the relationship is pushing for it and the other one is going through the motions out of some sense of obligation or whatever, but has actually already checked out.

I think this article is very good. And very true.


http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/07/04/1057179166685.html

(excerpt)


Till therapy do us part


Counsellors are supposed to help couples save their marriages. But, asks Bettina Arndt, is their main goal to fix the relationship or to rescue the individuals in it?

"They sit and judge you. You get the feeling it's not a big deal if you stay together or if you don't. The counsellors never seems to be pushing you to hang in there. I don't think they treat as precious the history you have together or care that this man is the father of your children. It's like it's all a bit too hard. Why don't you just leave?"

This is Linda Boswell*, 49, a Mosman physiotherapist married to a man prone to negativity and depression but still "a good, loving husband". In their 19 years together, they have seen a number of marriage counsellors, particularly during the difficult early years, when they were struggling to conceive using IVF. While some counselling has been helpful, sometimes she's emerged outraged at the failure of the counsellors to value her marriage.

She mentions one counsellor, who announced soon after they walked in that he was recently divorced. "I had the overwhelming feeling he wanted everyone else to end up in the same boat. He never said anything positive. If I mentioned my husband was being unsupportive, the counsellor would come back with: 'Oh, that's only going to get worse.' "

Boswell feels her marriage has survived despite, rather than because of, the marriage counselling. It's a sentiment also felt by people on the other side of the counselling room.

Professor William Doherty, the director of the marriage and family therapy program at the University of Minnesota, says: "If you talk to a therapist about problems in your marriage, I believe you stand a good risk of harming your marriage. Doherty has just toured Australia, promoting his two latest books, A Strong Marriage and Confident Parenting (Finch Publishing).

Doherty says therapy can be "enormously helpful in the right hands" ("I do this for a living. My job is to train therapists"). But he also believes therapists and marriage counsellors can undermine marriages, through incompetence and by promoting individual fulfilment, rather than supporting commitment to the marriage. ("Counsellors", in theory, are trained to deal with day-to-day problems, while "therapists" tackle more complex, diagnosable complaints. But, in practice, there's little difference between the two. Unqualified people are able to use either label.)

Doherty takes issue with therapists who claim to be neutral, who see their job as simply helping each person decide on their best option. Being neutral is an undermining stance, he says, arguing that the therapist who uses the language of individual self-interest - "I have needs, I have a right to happiness" - tends to side with the more self-oriented spouse, colluding to undermine the marital relationship.

............

(my favorite part)


Yet marital problems have pretty good odds of turning themselves around, says Halford, referring to recent research by Linda Waite, a psychology professor at the University of Chicago. Her team followed a group of 645 people who described themselves as unhappily married. After about five years, 176 of them had divorced or separated and, of these, about half were happy. About two-thirds of those who stuck it out were happy.

Most couples in the study who reported improvement in their marriages said it was a question of endurance - they didn't resolve their problems, they outlasted them.



That last line is so true.

 

[Claire Swazey]

Scientology only has ONE dating service that we know about and that is David Miscavige's COB's secret dating service provided to those that David Miscavige, leader, deems important enough to deserve it. The Church of Scientology lies about providing Tom Cruise this service - but the truth came out.

The divorce rate in Scientology are staggering. Those stats are straight up and vertical. Here is how it works:

If you are new to Scientology and having marital problems, you will be told they provide marriage counseling. This consists of paying $700 for an auditor in training - to take you and your spouse in session. They will put one on the cans (e-meter) and ask that person in front of their spouse - WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO YOUR SPOUSE? WHAT HAVE YOU WITHHELD? This will go on until they cannot find any more sins committed against each other.

Then you will get a communication course - where you get indoctrinated into the first level of control - this is where they start to control you. Of course, because the PTS/SP course actually tells you all about suppression - you least expect the Church of Scientology and have no idea what extent the Church of Scientology will go to so that the truth is hidden and nothing but lies are promoted!!

It is too much to even conceive and all the clay demos in the world would not give you the conceptual reality of what you have really entered - an evil cult that will take everything from you in exchange for a broken spirit, a broken heart, sometimes a broken mind. Why do you think they have you sign all the legal documents? They will tell you that SP's are out to get em - but it defies reason. The only problem is - by now they have set a trap and you want more!

You may feel better after all of this - who wouldn't? You admit the things you did to your spouse and talk about them. Then you confront each other and continue talking. That makes sense.

But lets say one of partners has a problem with spending $$$,$$$ for more auditing the other one WANTS!! Well, then they are routed onto the PTS / SP course where L Ron Hubbard states: "Anyone critical of Scientology is hiding huge crimes - sordid ones like eating babies etc".

This gets the other party thinking that their spouse must be doing something really bad but is keeping it secret. This is the wedge that is slightly tapped into the consciousness and then the rest of Scientology's tech can get poured in.

Scientology now becomes a 3rd party to the conflict between the two spouses. If one wants to continue Scientology - the other one better just accept it or their marriage will be over.

So typically what happens is the other one just keeps quiet while the one doing Scientology trashes their finances. They will donate money without spouses knowledge or permission. This is encouraged by the regges and heavily promoted. "It is your freedom" who is suppressing it? One will pay for many PTS rundowns etc....and if the spouse keeps showing up as the one who is suppressing their spiritual freedom - well, time to divorce that SP!! Of course, Scientology will not tell you that directly. They covertly mask it with the tech.

If the spouses don't have a common budget and financial rules within their household solidly in place - they will be destroyed. Many families don't have this so they get creamed!

Finanical ruin is the EP of Scientology.

Don't believe me - talk to Scientologists. Many will say with no change of facial expression - "yeah, I am losing my house to foreclosure - but I got up to Grade III". "I filed Bankruptcy but I did my L11". Yes, I did refinance my home to become a humanitarian but I want to help clear the planet. No - my house is not worth what I owe on it so I think I'll just give it back to the bank".

I wish I could name names here and post the public information - but 95% of the Scientologists I know still active are broke, bankrupt or have had their houses foreclosed on. Dedicated staff members that have given everything to Scientology - losing their homes and filing bankruptcy. No emotional reaction at all from them either.

The spouse that wants to do Scientology - will be regged for courses and auditing at a rabid pace and not told to check with their spouse...in fact, discouraged. Scientology creates divorces and their marriage counseling is another "front".

Scientology creates an environment in the family where everyone is a suspect EXCEPT Scientology. Soon - marriages crumble, the families are destroyed and left broke and broken.

I was deprived of mine. J and I were married in the cult and were supposed to get 2d counseling as part of the package. But, see, we were staff and our stats were low, which meant a lower condition in Ethics, which meant that I couldn't have auditing, which meant we didn't get our 2d counseling cuz we wuz naughty naughty staffers.

Oh, and the stat of mine that was low? It wasn't even my stat but they gave it to me anyway.

Oddly enough, despite this deprivation of LRH marriage counseling that'd have been delivered by a Cl VI OTV, well, shit, years later, we're still married.