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Discussion in 'Leaving Scientology' started by Chris Shelton, Dec 6, 2016.
Don't know Mims, hopefully Caroline will respond.
My gut feeling is that no matter what Mike and Marty were to write, if the church denies it happens, those papers are pretty much worthless to Gerry, but the church would use them as proof of Mike and Marty's malfeasance and justification of their being expelled. It's akin to sticking your head in a noose.
Gerry must know that is the case.
I think the world of Gerry and what he has done to expose the rancid underbelly of Hubbard and Scientology, and sadly that is the cross he will have to bear, until there is a new man (or woman) running Scientology who wants to clean up past sins. Personally, I'm not holding my breath.
PS it has been over 70 years since the bombing of Hiroshima - and the US has yet to apologize. Obama didn't when he visited that city. I seriously doubt Trump will step on that grenade either. See: http://www.snopes.com/obama-apology-hiroshima/
Yes, Gerry is an unsung hero in the recent news.
Obama wasn't involved in the Hiroshima thing, plus didn't they start it with Peal Harbor. Why would Obama apologize? It would be like me, a white dude, apologizing for black slavery in long years past, I wasn't there and had nothing to do with it.
Posted elsewhere by Mike Rinder (emphasis by me).
Understandably Gerry may never move on, may never receive what it is that he requires addressed to him specifically (a general apology like the one above would never suffice).
All I know for sure is that good things are being done now by Mike and Marty and as difficult as it must be for Gerry to have to watch them being applauded I will still continue to applaud because it's a step in the right direction and they are very definitely harming the cult.
The problem is that one can never know in this situation.
Depending on the jurisdiction -- which state, or U.S. federal, or even foreign country -- there are doctrines, such as (but not limited to) fraudulent concealment, equitable estoppal, equitable tolling, incapacity (e.g., the complaining party was mentally ill for some period of time), minority (i.e., the complaining party was a minor), that separately or in combination can suspend the running of a statute of limitations. (You can Google them.) It also depends on whether one is talking about criminal charges or civil liability for damages.
The bottom line is that if one has allegedly been involved in wrongful conduct -- and particularly alleged complex, ongoing wrongful conduct involving various jurisdictions -- one could never confidently conclude, "All of the statutes of limitations have run out on all of my alleged wrongful conduct, so I can now speak freely." That would be legally suicidal.
Bravo. May this too come to pass( actually happen). It might even be greatly beneficial to many others who want the full truth along with peace and healing.
I might just make this my non- religious daily prayer of hope.
Nice try buddy...but not so fast!!
Because, recently I ran a wholetrack incident (confirmed by both e-meter reads and my knowingness) where you were a slave-owner and I was personally the black victim of your oppressively tyrannical bondage & subjugation. I ran out an entire lifetime of picking cotton and being savagely whipped if my stats weren't up.
If you are still in doubt about whether this actually happened, I can assure you that when the incident blew I felt like my space was huge and the TA was floating.
I am seeking financial reparations for 50 years of servitude, plus overtime and compounded interest; the aggregate of all that re-calculated in 2016 dollars. Naturally, I expect prompt repayment.
ps: You needed feel this is all negative news. Because, after you repay me, you can go earlier than the mid-19th century on the wholetrack and find others who similarly enslaved you. If you can verify the incident by turning in your session worksheet with a clearly marked FN and VGIs, you will be able to begin collections actions to recoup the several million you are going to pay me.
Even if Mike (or others) admitted to illegal acts of fairgaming Gerry, and Mike (or others) went to prison... how would this change the legal aspects of Gerry violating his settlement agreement with CSI?
I see it differently Mimsey.
The benefits could be very wide spread.
The hearts of two good men could beat more freely and the door opened for compassion and forgiveness. Their minds could be freed of the dilemma of one of mankind's greatest quest, what is just?
AND the evil and hate that l ron Hubbard introduced into the world, would be vaquished hopefully for Gerry and Mike and others drawn into the heat of the portion of hell Hubbard purloined.
Sure we are none all virtuous nor all of vice, but to deny the dream and shovel it into a pipe and drive over it I say no.
Mankind is evolving. Let's see if we can keep striving to make it happen in the direction not of defeat but of virtue.
Fair enough. Hmmm maybe moving in the right direction?
Sure harming the cult can be seen as fruitful but how about digging deeper and clear away the poisonous seeds which were injected into the scene which yielded injustice etc.
Well, I believe the poisonous seeds are being cleared away generally but in this specific case it's up to the people who were involved, it's not up to us ... and the people who were involved may not want to do that or may not even believe that they need to do that.
Well prior to 1980 (when I believe this began) any half awake staff member (and I assume many public) knew what the cult were capable of (what the GO/OSA was/is like) so I assume when Gerry poked the nest of vipers he also knew they would come after him with a vengeance.
I'm not saying it was right (because it was most definitely not right) but he's an intelligent man so surely he knew what he was doing and how it was likely to play out?
You are so right!
And to add....didn't Mike Rinder just apologize the other day....to anyone he might have hurt?
What more could be of want?
I'd be curious to know the "insiders" scoop on the Wollersheim Trial in downtown Los Angeles.
I got to the Complex one day....and was told I was needed Downtown immediately...by some Sea Org personnel.
The SO had buses there to take anyone that happened to come to Pac Base....that day...and take them downtown...to "save scientology"
So, I got talked into it.
I ended up at a Pro-Cult protest at the Court House down on Hill St.
I asked why we couldn't go inside the court room to see what was going on....and was told "ONLY OTVs and above could go in." Then something about "beams."
I'd love to hear what a former high ranking Cult Executive has to say about that Cult Operation...!
Mike made a general apology.
Gerry wants Mike (and others) to admit to specific details that can stand up in a court of law.
Now do you understand?
I understand....I'm just being a jerk?
But thanks for putting it so nicely.
Lest I be misunderstood, I will say as the gate raises, I applaud with gratitude what Mike Rinder has done to bring harm to a halt.
I am not sure if I recall this correctly but I understand that it was the facetious cult which went illegal first on that settlement by its recommencing further Fair Game upon Gerry AND Gerry in his rights took back his promise because it was apparent that a promise with the devil, is a promise to be rescinded should the devil act above the law under which they themselves had agreed to honor.
But as I see it, call it civil disobedience if you want, i would rather call it holding to the fundamentals of justice upon which contracts acquire their validity, are subsumed and not brought back into place by those whose responsibility is to monitor and correct that injustice, it fell solely upon Gerry to assert his, justice for each and all, right to act, as true justice would dictate.
Obviously I am not a lawyer but do raise the question : are there not similarities to the the wrongly and wrongly convicted of murder the innocent. Do we not see that the legal system failed to serve justice?
Again I applaud all actions which strive for liberty, civil equity and justice.
I' all try to stay off my soapbox for a while but it is not easy to be quiet on the subject even when it may seem to others that it might not recognize Mike's great strides towards justice.
..andddd.. Ahhhh enough
I thought he took the settlement money and kept on blabbing, which would be a breach of contract, and then they went after him. I thought Mike and Marty were offered a settlement, and passed on the money. David Mayo, the underaged kid who was harmed at Bridge Publications, the PI's and Debby Cook took the cash and shut up. Mimsey, on the other hand, hasn't been shown one thin dime to date, so he doesn't have that bridge to cross.
On the other had, perhaps Scientology is just a very thick web of bullshit?
Like, joe public scn is old "ONLY OTVs and above could go in." Then something about "beams."
Then OTVs are told only OTVIII can survive the CI flowing in there..
And OTVIII are told only GO ops are cleared by COB to step inside
While GO are told hey don't risk it .. legal are fully hatted for this.
Then, public spots a lawyer and rushes over 'the beams man, stay safe in there!'
Lawyer: 'are you shittin' me?'
I was at the Courthouse, and I had already resigned from COS. I wrote quite a few posts on ARS about my experiences as an "SP" at the Courthouse.
COS had these poor SO members standing and sitting in line to check out the OT 111 packs that had just been introduced into evidence, and were ( briefly) available to the Public. They didn't want them leaked!
The funny thing was that any Class V111's in the Field already had them if they wanted them. They were being passed around freely.
Gerry, this is from a document you have on your web-site. Long ago I believe I watched the undercover video - is that available somewhere? What say you about your truthfulness in this? Does it help you to understand why Mike & Marty might not be so motivated to assist you? Could you point me to where you have refuted/explained this?