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Mischief at large.

mischief

Patron with Honors
I got two books in the mail today.(no decent bookshop here and I find they're cheaper thru the Book depository UK with no shipping costs).
The small one was a copy of 'DMSMH'.It was supposed to be a 1950's edition but what arrived was a 1977 one instead.I had read Nibs tape transcript on the 'Early days on the Apollo' thread and wanted to check out afew things he said, along with afew other considertions I had-my faulty memory and someone mentioning that you cant let go of something if you dont realise you are hanging onto it.

the big one was my brand new copy of 'Going Clear' by Lawrence Wright. Yay!!!
My big read for the next little while.

When I pulled the dmsmh book out of its package, I noticed that on the front page was the $2 price up on the right hand corner.
I immediately thought of the time when Ian (my PES), came to me to complain that he had been in the bulk books storeroom and found heaps of old dianetics books,how they were damaged and he had been told to sell them anyway and for the current price.
He disgreed with this and so did I.
He wanted to set up a bargain bin for the grotty ones to get rid of them, but we were not allowed to do this per policy.
So....we had to 'sell' them.
A solution presented itself in the form of my 'partially paids' list.-all those little amounts people had in their accounts that were usually leftovers somehow, rather than an actual payment For something.

We packaged up the books and sent them out to those people, invoicing the last little amounts that they had.I think we only had one ever sent back.

This solved alot of problems.
It got rid of books we didnt feel comfortable selling at current prices.
Because we went out of our way to send out books from the price range like this one with the $2 tag to those whose had money in account from that time frame, it sort of covered our arses. =The org was out exchange with them, there was some half hearted disagreement with doing this, but we obviously 'handled' it enough for them to cover Their arses.
It cleared out my list of 'partially paids'-so I did not need to waste either my or their time by calling them, or writing to them as part of my Treasury Sec hat.
Because they now had empty treasury files, they fell off the radar so to speak.For the most part probably 99% of them, were never going to come back in and nobody really wanted to call them to try to get them in either, but because there was money in account we 'had' to.....God the stupidity.
So, if you got a book and invoice in the mail, out of the blue and didnt know why....now you know.

One of my explanations to New Era Pubs Anzo-cant remember his name now, was the exchange thing but also..'well you know, it might just revitalise their failed purpose and remind them that when they first read Dianetics that they wanted to go clear....'

Funnily enough.....one person did get his book, read it and after 20 years out, walked back into the Day org.
He bought auditing, attested to clear and bought his OT levels.
The night before he left to go to the AO, he and Marion Moffat came to see me.....to growl nicely at me for sending him the book at the price I had. 'It was worth more than that you know'
'Well,' I said, 'the whole purpose ws to get the org in exchange with you so you would want to continue to move up the bridge...it worked, didnt it?'
'Well yes, but......' Marions' face was saying...'Oh,Trish what were you thinking?'
Jeeze, you gotta laugh, once again, we did something that worked, got the result and got growled at while 'they' got the reward-GI,someone in session....and the fsm commission when they went to the AO.....big sigh....oh well Ian and I got what We wanted too.
 

mischief

Patron with Honors
This story is for Chris B.
I think I freaked him out one night with my strangeness, I'm not sure what he really thought about what happened, he never said.

When I was 8 months pregnant with my daughter-number three, I used to catch the bus home after work.
If I left afew minutes early, I could catch the 10.30pm one, if not then it would be the last one which I think left at 11pm. Took about an hour to get home.
I didnt actually have problem with this, but afew things had started to happen, that gave me the creeps.
The bus stop I had to get off at was at the top of the Waikemete cemetary,I had to walk for about 20 minutes long the top edge of the cemetary to get home.
I have always known people lived in the cemetary since I was a kid,my catholic friends used to have to go to the church in Glen Eden on sunday to do their confessions and sometimes I would go with them and sit in the church, just looking around it, while they did their thing.
We used to walk through the cemetary to get there and on the way would 'tease' 'people', they didnt like it and it made me feel bad doing it....anyway, I just accepted that they were there.

There were two old girls who would accompany me along the first stretch of road,tsk tsk'ing that I should not be out in my condition so late at night and a nasty male who would try to freak me out by making footstep noises behind me, along the top/last stretch before I turned down into my street.

Then there was the streetlight at the end of the road-top of my street, that for some reason, would always go out when I got halfway along the top road-where the nasty guy hung out and wouldnt turn back on again until I got halfway down my street.
scene set.

One night, it was absolutely pouring with rain and I was feeling quite sorry for myself as I walked home.
My two old dears were tsk tsk'ing making me feel better cos somebody cared about me, when all of a sudden they yelled "Look, look out behind you" and spun me around.
There was a car stopped at the top of the rise with it door open-no lights, and the driver tip-toe'ing with no shoes on half way between me and the car.
"Do you want a lift", he says.

I swore my best street kid-speak.
Next thing,I find myself further down the road to the intersection and then across the road-he's still standing in the middle of the road watching me, then takes off to his car and spins off backwards.
(Sometime later,when I had my car, I stopped it where he had parked and 'went thru it again'.
There was no way in hell I could have moved myself so fast to get down to the intersection and no time did not stand still while I ran, one sec I was there, next, I was there, somewhere else.)

I still had the long stretch along the top road to go before I got to my street and I walked as fast as I could,still having to turn around to make sure it was 'nasty ol' fart' making the footstep noises behind me and not the man in the car.
I hadnt heard the car because the rain was hitting my raincoat,I couldnt hear anything over the noise of that, but somehow I could still hear those footsteps.
The dog who lives long here always used to come out to bark at me but his time came out just as I turn to yell at the ol' fart to fuck off, and decided to run back to his kennel instead of barking at me, (the look on that dogs face,made me laugh and I felt like a complete idiot yelling at 'nobody').His house had a streetlight right outside it.
Once again that damn light at the end went out again, making that last leg really dark.

I did get home in one piece and didnt catch the bus and walk home from that point onwards.
Chris, I dont think knows all about that bit.

When I got to the org again, the next day-a saturday, I went to HCO to report what had happened.Not sure if I told them about the ol'fart though,or the light.
They organised for me to get a lift home from then on.
One night,Chris gave me a lift, not too sure why him cos he lived in the complete opposite direction of the org from me, but I definitely appreciated him for it.
As we were getting to the half way mark on the top road I said "watch, that damn light at the end will go out now", and sure enough it did.I told him about it and how it would turn on again when we got half way down my street..and sure enough it did that too.
 

mischief

Patron with Honors
The mass graves for the 'flu victims had been forgotten about,til the friends of the cemetary group was formed up to help clean it up and maintain it.
My old lady neighbour, Mrs Bell, knew about it as she had lived in Glen Eden as a child and would hear the night train arriving in the station that carried the bodies.
Its actually a really nice place to walk thru during the day although there are some parts I would hurry past,or not go into-more in the middle of the cemetary. Funnily enough, those ghost gums just looked impressive,I never got any bad vibes from them.
From memory, they are across the lane from the mass graves.

When I was a kid, there was a huge fire along the main road side.All the pine trees along there made a very impressive fire that we could see from our house.The flames were so high and intense I thought they would burn the sun, a very frightening time for everyone who lived out our way.The fire brigade wasnt sure that they would be able to contain the fire to the cemetary, but they did.
 

mischief

Patron with Honors
This is why I was so gutted after reading SallyD's story.

I got her ex 'on lines'-I did his eval and regged him for his first service, the comm course I think.
When he finished that I saw him again as the Div 2 reg and signed him up for his Purif.
He had to go back home-not a local at the time, so I kept in touch with him on a regular basis til he came back-afew to 6 months later.
He had decided to change jobs and move up to Auckland, so he had quite afew things to sort out in order to do this, and no I didnt pressure him to hurry it up.

After he finished his purif, he resigned onto his training bridge , I think the Tours reg saw him.
He had done afew of his courses when I recruited him for the TTC to train up and eventually go into the HGC.

He like many many others, was one of my babies.
If I got you in or recovered you, you were one of my babies.
I get sick and tired of people telling me I was controlling people giving the impression that I got my jollies off doing this to people.
Yes, when I was good, I was very good and yes, when I was bad, I too was a nightmare.
I have absolutely no problem with people who were on the receiving end of me coming on and letting rip-your right to do so.Please do.

Right back to the story.
He decided that he wanted to continue to pay for his training rather than have it invoiced at a no charge staff invoice.
I pointed out that he didnt have to do that,but thats what he wanted, I didnt understand it but ..his choice.

Finally, I had someone training for the HGC.
I had been under alot of pressure to get this div staffed up but was working one a policy which gives the tech/admin ratios and laid out the best sequence for manning up the org-cant quote it/dont have it.

It didnt take long for he and the course sup to realise that because of his lisp, he could not get/pick up on an 'instant read'.
They came to see me with ....at least one other, there might have been two backups...they did need all the help they could get and they knew it.

'No, fix it!, there must be something you can do?more drilling?'
There wasnt and I was upset,very upset.
It was decided that he would transfer over to course sup training instead-they couldnt see the point of continuing his auditor training.
I didnt understand how if he couldnt pick up an instant read, how he was going to be able to audit on his OT levels.
I felt the sup had let me down and our relationship soured from that point.
While my intention for 'my' org was to have a strong training org where everybody co-audited their lower bridge,I still Had to have an HGC as well.....but I had to train the auditors first to get that.Big sigh.another long story.

Eventually he did take over as the sup.

SallyD and he invited me/my family, along with afew others to their place one night and we spent a wonderful time soaking in their spa pool drinking cider.
One or the few moments when I actually got to get social contact with friends I wanted to make.
Unfortunately that was the only time we got to get together,our schedules just didnt allow for social life with each other.I missed that and wished we could have had more of that-just wonderful.

When I left, Sally was having afew troubles, but I thought she had him to support her through it and that as a couple they would live happily ever after, I didnt have to worry about her.
I always felt guilty at leaving 'all my babies' behind and hoped that they would be okay without me,they had to be cos I no longer thought I was of much use to them-too burnt out.

Hope, as I said earlier is a powerful bitch and very hurtful when she lets you down yet again.
I found it so hard to understand how someone so nice could ..............
 

mischief

Patron with Honors
This damn song just wont get out of my head
Jerimiah was a bull...no thats not right,start again

Xenu was a Bull Frog,
and wat a bull frog he be,
dancing n prancing in this sweet wee pond,
wow to you and me.

Wow to you and me
All the girls and boys,
all sorting sits n doing real fine,
wow to you an me...

ha now maybe I can get some work done.
 

mischief

Patron with Honors
I've tried a couple of times to post but keep coming up with ...why bother.
I was not going to continue with fighting it out with XenuBF on somebody elses thread, thats not fair to them.
SO I switched over to my emails and had a good ol' rant to my friend instead,switched over to my 'mischief' email address to check if anyone had emailed me wanting to sort things out.
After reading Mikes email, I once again am feeling completely fed up.
So rather than rant n rave all over again,......


Email to RandomX today,

Yeah,I got my first slapping and 'disagree' button pushed not once but
twice for my post in the individuation thread.
I feel like yelling 'wakey,wakey, people...OSA arent the only sharks
trolling the net'.

I probably shouldnt have put that bit about them and us in it, thats
not what I was really bitching about.

I see someone caressing the help button....a scio's help button is
always going to get an erection, even if they think its been hammered
into another universe,

Then, they follow up with a 'this is my understanding of this'....

which then becomes, another mindnumbing monotonous and dare I say-
hypnotic lecture on how screwed up and perverse hubbard really was...

Concluding with yet another hammering at all SO/staff members pointing
out that they are all just a bunch of complete and utter arseholes and
all they were about was ripping each other off and doing each other
in...

No,that does not describe me,you or most of the others at all.
Its almost like there is no point in posting anything positive-you're
seen as still stuck in the whole mindset that everything about scn is
great.

No balance there.No real reason to tell stories the way they were
unless they agree with the 'tell us how gory it was for you'.
Wasting my time, and I feel like telling them so.

I kept posting after I said-no sore spots anymore mainly for those out
their in 'my' little pond.I was going to just leave it there but feel
like I have an obligation to all the others here in Our pond to keep
going with it.
Trying to destim them and get them to see that individuals are not the
whole...not saying this too well....I am not a bad person and most of
what I did was good with what I knew.

Still seriously fucked off and feeling like I just walked into one of
XenuBF's favourite traps and got shat all over by a jackoff playing
headfucked mind games with everybody.and they all buy it,will they
ever learn to stop buying into others' BS...I dont think so.

Is the 'EP' of writing 'my story' -"I was a complete backstabbing,KR
writing arsehole, climbing all over the next guy saving my own arse at
the expense of others'?

Its bit like me telling them that because they are American, they are
all responsible for the abuses done in the rest of the world by their
govt/army/corporations....cant see them buying into that.

Yeah, I need to see Karyn, I have to explain how/why we lost contact
in the first place after I left.same with Helen,
I'll mention her to step sis to see if she wants to get back in touch
with her too.If Karyn had tried to contact her,she wouldnt have been
able to cos Suz moved since they last spoke.

You need to let me know what your schedule is so I can work everything
in.I cant always say when I can/cant get up, but if I know when is a
good time I can work around that.
haha, I forgot it was Waitangi Day-wednesday was a stat, I could have
come up then.
Next week is alittle busy but I told my daughter I would come up for her.
She's finding it tough going being a new mum.
Dont think I will get the time for detour anywhere else tho.So maybe
the week after.

Yeh,yeh,I'm breathing....
xx

Then I switch over to my mischief's email address and get this: osa nz


Mike F
Feb 6 (2 days ago)
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cleardot.gif

cleardot.gif
to me
cleardot.gif





Hi Trish

I was hoping to catch up with you and that you might reply.


Of course I have read your postings on ESMB and was concerned that you might be getting a little entrenched
in being right about this activity. We all like to be right, but the former-adherent viewpoint can quite quickly become
a refusal to look at a more balanced view.


Sure things have happened in the church and I recall many of the things you have written about concerning Div 6 etc. Hell,
I was there and worked on the Day org while Ian and Neil did the Fdn.


But for whatever reason you left, lets not start down the slippery slope of all the wrong in Scientology. People may have done things wrong--we all did and you included I'm sure. But I'm sure you can also understand the virtue in rising above that. I don't think you've left Scientology behind Trish, it looks more like you're attempting to reinforce that you were right in leaving it behind.


Get in comm, there's lots to talk about. Maybe even put a few things straight.


Oh, and Wright book. Clearly a hatchet job, but we shouldn't expect anything from a journalist. He is the second journalist to have written a book about Scientology in recent times. There are two more either writing or due to be published shortly. There are great efforts being mustered to try to halt the progress of what we are doing. The ESMB site is but one of them.


Our published corrections about Wright's book can be found here: http://www.lawrencewrightgoingclear.com/wright/introduction.html#.URHUex0w06w




Love to hear from you sometime.


All the best
cleardot.gif



Sorry Mike,
I am out, and out for good.
IJC was sent my letter of resignation in 1998 and nothing has changed my mind since then.

We were friends once and as I told you in my earlier reply, it is as friends, I wish to part.
Scientology has nothing I want(nor does XenuBF either,).
My posting here is to find balance not just for myself but also those who have ever had contact with me while i was 'in'.
---------


Stop with the head fucked mind games and let people get on with sorting their shit out.Everybody.
All this flaming makes it really hard to sift thru what the hell went on.
It might make you feel better, having vented your spleen, but some of us want facts not yet more BS.

Maybe whats missing on this board is a 'Thunderdome'-you want to go hammer at someone,rant and rave-take it there.

What gave me that idea was remembering when we first moved down, my two younger kids started 'hating' each other.
"she not a girl, she's my sister" and hammer away at each other they would.
I got fed up with it.
'You want to beat each other to a pulp? then take it outside,right down the back of the yard and let rip! I dont want your blood on my floor!'

They glared at me, glared at each other and off they went...right down to end of the back yard.
Having been to martial arts, they knew how to throw punch and they werent holding anything back.
Stand up knock down, humdinger......I know cos I snuck out to peek.

Sometimes you just need somewhere, sometime to just let rip without putting blood on somebody elses carpet.Especially when the 'target' is right there in front of you.


 

Purple Rain

Crusader
I've tried a couple of times to post but keep coming up with ...why bother.
I was not going to continue with fighting it out with XenuBF on somebody elses thread, thats not fair to them.
SO I switched over to my emails and had a good ol' rant to my friend instead,switched over to my 'mischief' email address to check if anyone had emailed me wanting to sort things out.
After reading Mikes email, I once again am feeling completely fed up.
So rather than rant n rave all over again,......


Email to RandomX today,

Yeah,I got my first slapping and 'disagree' button pushed not once but
twice for my post in the individuation thread.
I feel like yelling 'wakey,wakey, people...OSA arent the only sharks
trolling the net'.

I probably shouldnt have put that bit about them and us in it, thats
not what I was really bitching about.

I see someone caressing the help button....a scio's help button is
always going to get an erection, even if they think its been hammered
into another universe,

Then, they follow up with a 'this is my understanding of this'....

which then becomes, another mindnumbing monotonous and dare I say-
hypnotic lecture on how screwed up and perverse hubbard really was...

Concluding with yet another hammering at all SO/staff members pointing
out that they are all just a bunch of complete and utter arseholes and
all they were about was ripping each other off and doing each other
in...

No,that does not describe me,you or most of the others at all.
Its almost like there is no point in posting anything positive-you're
seen as still stuck in the whole mindset that everything about scn is
great.

No balance there.No real reason to tell stories the way they were
unless they agree with the 'tell us how gory it was for you'.
Wasting my time, and I feel like telling them so.

I kept posting after I said-no sore spots anymore mainly for those out
their in 'my' little pond.I was going to just leave it there but feel
like I have an obligation to all the others here in Our pond to keep
going with it.
Trying to destim them and get them to see that individuals are not the
whole...not saying this too well....I am not a bad person and most of
what I did was good with what I knew.

Still seriously fucked off and feeling like I just walked into one of
XenuBF's favourite traps and got shat all over by a jackoff playing
headfucked mind games with everybody.and they all buy it,will they
ever learn to stop buying into others' BS...I dont think so.

Is the 'EP' of writing 'my story' -"I was a complete backstabbing,KR
writing arsehole, climbing all over the next guy saving my own arse at
the expense of others'?

Its bit like me telling them that because they are American, they are
all responsible for the abuses done in the rest of the world by their
govt/army/corporations....cant see them buying into that.

Yeah, I need to see Karyn, I have to explain how/why we lost contact
in the first place after I left.same with Helen,
I'll mention her to step sis to see if she wants to get back in touch
with her too.If Karyn had tried to contact her,she wouldnt have been
able to cos Suz moved since they last spoke.

You need to let me know what your schedule is so I can work everything
in.I cant always say when I can/cant get up, but if I know when is a
good time I can work around that.
haha, I forgot it was Waitangi Day-wednesday was a stat, I could have
come up then.
Next week is alittle busy but I told my daughter I would come up for her.
She's finding it tough going being a new mum.
Dont think I will get the time for detour anywhere else tho.So maybe
the week after.

Yeh,yeh,I'm breathing....
xx

Then I switch over to my mischief's email address and get this: osa nz


Mike F
Feb 6 (2 days ago)
cleardot.gif
cleardot.gif

cleardot.gif
to me
cleardot.gif





Hi Trish

I was hoping to catch up with you and that you might reply.


Of course I have read your postings on ESMB and was concerned that you might be getting a little entrenched
in being right about this activity. We all like to be right, but the former-adherent viewpoint can quite quickly become
a refusal to look at a more balanced view.


Sure things have happened in the church and I recall many of the things you have written about concerning Div 6 etc. Hell,
I was there and worked on the Day org while Ian and Neil did the Fdn.


But for whatever reason you left, lets not start down the slippery slope of all the wrong in Scientology. People may have done things wrong--we all did and you included I'm sure. But I'm sure you can also understand the virtue in rising above that. I don't think you've left Scientology behind Trish, it looks more like you're attempting to reinforce that you were right in leaving it behind.


Get in comm, there's lots to talk about. Maybe even put a few things straight.


Oh, and Wright book. Clearly a hatchet job, but we shouldn't expect anything from a journalist. He is the second journalist to have written a book about Scientology in recent times. There are two more either writing or due to be published shortly. There are great efforts being mustered to try to halt the progress of what we are doing. The ESMB site is but one of them.


Our published corrections about Wright's book can be found here: http://www.lawrencewrightgoingclear.com/wright/introduction.html#.URHUex0w06w




Love to hear from you sometime.


All the best
cleardot.gif



Sorry Mike,
I am out, and out for good.
IJC was sent my letter of resignation in 1998 and nothing has changed my mind since then.

We were friends once and as I told you in my earlier reply, it is as friends, I wish to part.
Scientology has nothing I want(nor does XenuBF either,).
My posting here is to find balance not just for myself but also those who have ever had contact with me while i was 'in'.
---------


Stop with the head fucked mind games and let people get on with sorting their shit out.Everybody.
All this flaming makes it really hard to sift thru what the hell went on.
It might make you feel better, having vented your spleen, but some of us want facts not yet more BS.

Maybe whats missing on this board is a 'Thunderdome'-you want to go hammer at someone,rant and rave-take it there.

What gave me that idea was remembering when we first moved down, my two younger kids started 'hating' each other.
"she not a girl, she's my sister" and hammer away at each other they would.
I got fed up with it.
'You want to beat each other to a pulp? then take it outside,right down the back of the yard and let rip! I dont want your blood on my floor!'

They glared at me, glared at each other and off they went...right down to end of the back yard.
Having been to martial arts, they knew how to throw punch and they werent holding anything back.
Stand up knock down, humdinger......I know cos I snuck out to peek.

Sometimes you just need somewhere, sometime to just let rip without putting blood on somebody elses carpet.Especially when the 'target' is right there in front of you.



I guess when you have damaged people you have a lot of this sort of thing happen. I have personally had enough of being damaged and am seeking help where I can find it psychologically and philosophically. What I notice on this board are a vast range of experiences both inside and outside of Scientology. I don't think you can put such a diverse group into pigeonholes. When a person is being dogpiled it does feel like the whole group is against them but that is unlikely to be the case.

I tend to agree with my partner, that certain things in life are dealbreakers. Like it doesn't matter if a girl is gorgeous and funny and smart and sexy if she's a cheater. That's a dealbreaker for him.

Of course, nobody is all good or all bad. You could say the same of any tyrant or despot. But there are certain things that individuals or organisational managers do that simply cross the line - either legal or moral or both. It does not matter to me that Hubbard or Scientology were not all bad, because the bad things they did are dealbreakers.

Hubbard locking up a deaf mute child for days or sending a small child to a chain locker is a dealbreaker for me. I don't care if he cures cancer. That doesn't matter. Scientology's harrassment of Paulette Cooper alone is a dealbreaker. I guess for some people such as Mike Ferriss, those things are not dealbreakers because the end justifies the means. At the end of the day, we all have our own values. However, my experience is that an individual seldom holds the same values while in Scientology as he or she did before they became involved, and it takes a while for them to remember who they really are and get back in touch with their own sense of right and wrong.
 

mischief

Patron with Honors
Thank for your response.but....

(see me groaning in my hands)

I am not hubbard,I did Not put that child in that locker, I did not kill Lisa,.......

When do we get the chance to separate us from hubbard?
Or are we not supposed to be doing that, cos That is what I feel is getting shoved in my face.

I may have run an org for 5 years, been on staff for however bloody long it was.Now I have to cop it for what happened to Lisa, even tho it happened ..what 17 years after I left.
Doing that sort of thing to people is Not helping them sort out what is what.

to be quite blunt..and i am still seething here,trying to keep it civil...
right now do not give a flying fuck about hubbard.

I am not talking about him,I am talking about me,...who did I damage?
 

Purple Rain

Crusader
Thank for your response.but....

(see me groaning in my hands)

I am not hubbard,I did Not put that child in that locker, I did not kill Lisa,.......

When do we get the chance to separate us from hubbard?
Or are we not supposed to be doing that, cos That is what I feel is getting shoved in my face.

I may have run an org for 5 years, been on staff for however bloody long it was.Now I have to cop it for what happened to Lisa, even tho it happened ..what 17 years after I left.
Doing that sort of thing to people is Not helping them sort out what is what.

to be quite blunt..and i am still seething here,trying to keep it civil...
right now do not give a flying fuck about hubbard.

I am not talking about him,I am talking about me,...who did I damage?

Well, I am not Hubbard either. However, I did damage people while I was on staff not the least of which were my own children.

:(

I don't think I was an evil person, but I do believe I worked for an evil organisation, forwarded their agenda and helped relieve public of money that went to pay for private detectives to follow Pat Broeker and ordinary IRS agents, and to fund some of the 2,400 lawsuits that helped them achieve tax-exempt status and religious recognition.

On a personal level, I supported things I thought were wrong, didn't talk to friends if management declared them suppressive on a whim, told public things I knew were untrue, such as that they could continue practising their own religion if they joined Scientology. I helped talk one man who is now dead into spending his redundancy package on getting Ls for his wife because this would improve their marriage - this was over a hundred thousand dollars. She came back and ran off with another man. The list goes on. I don't dwell on it mostly. I do live with the resentment and disrespect of my family and children. One of my children no longer speaks to me, nor does my grandmother.

At university, for example, I am still feeling the effects of the fear I experienced in two cults.

Basically I'm just trying to become a person I can respect and feel whole in myself.
 
"Re: Mischief at large.

Thank for your response.but....

(see me groaning in my hands)

I am not hubbard,I did Not put that child in that locker, I did not kill Lisa,.......

When do we get the chance to separate us from hubbard?
Or are we not supposed to be doing that, cos That is what I feel is getting shoved in my face.

I may have run an org for 5 years, been on staff for however bloody long it was. Now I have to cop it for what happened to Lisa, even tho it happened ..what 17 years after I left.
Doing that sort of thing to people is Not helping them sort out what is what.

to be quite blunt..and i am still seething here,trying to keep it civil...
right now do not give a flying fuck about hubbard.

I am not talking about him,I am talking about me,...who did I damage?"


A very good question. And one which only you can answer, in your heart of hearts.

I don't see anyone here accusing you of anything personally...I don't think any of us know you well enough to do that! And yet you are responding to it as if someone is, and it has gotten you in touch with a great deal of anger and you seem to be taking it very personally.

Maybe unpacking and understanding this reaction on your part will be helpful to you, and might even be an important part of healing in some way?

Who, and what, are you really so angry at, and why? Is that worth exploring for you? If not, just let it go. Or if not now, then maybe look at it more in a couple of days when the current intense level of feeling has passed or become lighter? This current conversation is just the trigger, but there must be something else behind it. (Maybe something about being judged for someone else's mistakes, their actions or lack of action?) I think it's worth exploring, if you want to.

We all have to redeem the past, our personal pasts, with all our mistakes or missteps, misspoken words, bad decisions, etc. to some extent, for ourselves. All of us do. We also all have to make amends to others we may have hurt or injured along the way, to the extent that it is practical (or even symbolically when it is not practical), in order for us to feel whole and worthy of happiness and a good quality of life.

Even if that only entails recognizing our previous errors and making a conscious effort to do better now that we know better (to the extent that we do). :) This is a process of dealing with one's own conscience, of coming to terms with one's self, and recognizing and claiming one's own very personal internal core values that we all have to do as we become older and wiser about ourselves, and about life...
 
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mischief

Patron with Honors
........."Maybe unpacking and understanding this reaction on your part will be helpful to you, and might even be an important part of healing in some way?

Who, and what, are you really so angry at, and why? Is that worth exploring for you? If not, just let it go. Or if not now, then maybe look at it more in a couple of days when the current intense level of feeling has passed or become lighter? This current conversation is just the trigger, but there must be something else behind it. (Maybe something about being judged for someone else's mistakes, their actions or lack of action?) I think it's worth exploring, if you want to."........



Good question.
Good idea.
I do.
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
Mischief, I think that's sage advice from S&L.

It takes a while for most people to settle in here. The joy of ESMB is that members get to try on their changing versions of truth (most folks here are still peeling) and sling those around. Doesn't mean they're "true," but everybody has the right to their opinion, at least up to a point -- the board rules draw the line at "Don't be an asshole."

The great value of ESMB derives from the facts that there's free speech allowed and people challenge each other. That does not mean everybody's ideas are fully baked or even well intentioned. "Disagreement" is the name of the game most days -- and that's how the sausage gets made.

I sometimes wind up admiring my opponents and finding value in their perspectives that are different from mine. Other times I think they're just assholes. Or both. LOL.

Also, the IGNORE button is here for a reason. You might want to use it when your energy levels are low.

ESMB isn't a required course, and attendance isn't taken. You are allowed to come and go as you wish. If someone asks you a question or challenges you, you're on your own timetable as to when and how or even if to respond.

Finally, protect yourself. It's absolutely permitted. :)

Don't you appreciate all this marvelous advice you didn't ask for? :roflmao:

TG1
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Thank for your response.but....

(see me groaning in my hands)

I am not hubbard,I did Not put that child in that locker, I did not kill Lisa,.......

When do we get the chance to separate us from hubbard?
Or are we not supposed to be doing that, cos That is what I feel is getting shoved in my face.

I may have run an org for 5 years, been on staff for however bloody long it was.Now I have to cop it for what happened to Lisa, even tho it happened ..what 17 years after I left.
Doing that sort of thing to people is Not helping them sort out what is what.

to be quite blunt..and i am still seething here,trying to keep it civil...
right now do not give a flying fuck about hubbard.

I am not talking about him,I am talking about me,...who did I damage?

I think you've nailed it. Scapegoating.
 

Student of Trinity

Silver Meritorious Patron
I was never in Scientology, I don't know most of these issues, but for what it's worth I have a straight answer that seems right to me:

You can separate yourself from Hubbard as soon as you decide to. You can just decide, any instant you wish, not to be whoever you were. The consequences of what you may have done in Hubbard's name may still live on, and you may want to do what you can — it may not be much — to remedy them. Old habits of mind may die hard. But consequences can come from the beat of a butterfly's wing. Habits of mind can be ingrained by a whiff of chemicals. Who you really are is something underneath all of that, and it's not hard to change who you really are, at all. You can just do it, any moment you choose.

That's my personal creed, but it's not quite entirely just my own crazy notion. It's my take on an old tradition. I think it's good news, if it's news at all, and I think it's true.
 

The_Fixer

Class Clown
<snip>

Yeah, I need to see Karyn, I have to explain how/why we lost contact
in the first place after I left.same with Helen,
I'll mention her to step sis to see if she wants to get back in touch
with her too.If Karyn had tried to contact her,she wouldnt have been
able to cos Suz moved since they last spoke.

<snip>

Sure things have happened in the church and I recall many of the things you have written about concerning Div 6 etc. Hell,
I was there and worked on the Day org while Ian and Neil did the Fdn

<snip>

Karyn Rodgers? I remember an Ian (name only) and Neil as in Liversedge, a photographer? He lived in the same house as I did at Herne Bay and collected Citroens. Buggered if I know why....

Hang in there girl, you are going through the process we all went through in various ways after we started talking. It's a very emotional journey, so don't get too disheartened. You do have many supporters and friends here, despite whatever else is going on.

I'm beginning to think the higher up one was in the church, the harder the landing is after the fall.

Your story is fascinating and you write it well. Moar please...
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
SOT, I agree completely with your philosophy. It's very workable and quite effective. Yours a very good post, and I endorse it.

However, I believe I heard Mischief saying above something different from what you might have heard her saying.

I didn't hear her saying "How can I separate myself from Hubbard?" I heard her saying, "I wish people here would stop identifying me with Hubbard. I'm not him!"

Some newbie exes here do complain about feeling like they're misunderstood. I remember feeling that way. :) And it's not just a Scientological phenomenon to be upset when you sense others are not hearing you accurately. Nobody desires to be misunderstood.

Of course, I might also just be muddying the water, so will hush now.

TG1
 
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