More on Brian Culkin and the Lynch Mob

Discussion in 'Legal and Government Actions Involving Scientology' started by Isene, May 15, 2013.

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  1. Isene

    Isene Patron with Honors

    Part of what I wrote:

    Backdrop: Article on Tony Ortega’s blog and my blog post titled, “WTF? OMG! BBQ!“ (links on blog post)

    When this news reached the main Independent Scientologists Facebook group, all hell broke lose. Even before the comments to Ortega’s piled up good.

    Without any more data, without any due process. Brian was promptly proclaimed guilty. Not only that, but within minutes, a lynch mob gathered and called Brian anything from “traitor” and “slime boy” to “degraded being” and “sociopath”. He had clearly and intentionally back-stabbed every Indie Scientologist. Clear as day!

    Ortega’s view of this was taken as fact, and Indie Scientologists instantly cried out for “Disconnection!”

    What happened to “innocent until proven guilty”?

    There are reasons to believe that when the truth about what went down behind the scene with Brian and the CoS, it will do some serious damage to the church.

    More here: The Lynch Mob and the Creepy Church
  2. uncover

    uncover Gold Meritorious Patron

    Thats an abusive false accusation against all of those who could read the affidavits and did it - obviously in contrast to you.

    Not Tony Ortega´s opinion was relevant, it was Brian Culkin´s own confession in his affidavit (which was readable for everyone who wanted).

    As long as you can´t see that and act with such abusive false accusations you are not better than your "Lynch Mob" and nobody can take you serious.

    No, No.... he is not responsible for his actions, because it was not him.... it was his hand who signed the affidavit.

    Its really a mess with all of those evil body thetans who do so many bad things with the body of a big thetan.
    Last edited: May 15, 2013
  3. Purple Rain

    Purple Rain Crusader

    You are quite good at labelling yourself.


    Lynch mob.

    I call it opinion and a right to have your say. Nobody touched a hair on his head. And if you think that is ANYTHING like the KKK you are sadly deluded.

    If that was all the KKK did then there are many African Americans who would have lived to a ripe old age and prospered.

    To assert that INDIVIDUALS who expressed outrage at a member of a group acting in a fashion that betrayed the rest of the group is anything LIKE that... well, I just don't know what planet you live on.

    Go read Ida B. Wells. Go talk to some of the African Americans that can still remember the warning signs - of my age group! If that was what the KKK was - if that was what a LYNCH MOB was - they would have been freaking laughing.

    Go ahead and judge, yourself. You are doing EXACTLY the same thing - but oh wait - there's just one of you. Well, there was just one of me too. I could not help it that others felt the same way. I never had any intent to harm Brian - I simply expressed my opinion - which remains that he betrayed his friends.

    If it can be shown that I am wrong I am quite happy to amend that opinion. I can shut up about it - as you seem to want - and fine I have done so - but that is STILL my opinion and does NOT make me part of any so-called "lynch mob".

    I am sure there are plenty of people who will agree with you, and that is their right, but this positioning just makes me really angry.

    Edit: Why don't you just call us Nazis while you're at it?
  4. Isene

    Isene Patron with Honors

    It should be noted that many did not actually read his declaration before they started the name calling. And, the declaration itself is no proof of intent. One may read intent into it if one wish, but none of the people who formed the lynch mob knew the facts around his signing that declaration. And many were disturbed by a simple request to get facts on the table.

    What I object to is the emotions getting the better of one to the detriment of others. Several people I talked to back-channel admitted that what was done to Brian here would swiftly be labeled as "abuse" if it was done by the CoS.

    I wonder if it will ever be possible to discuss anything Scientology without it turning into a heated quarrel.

    As I said, Scientology tends to corrupt whatever it touches. I am trying my best to sort out what in me Scientology has corrupted. Blogging helps uncover uninspected areas and clear stuff up. Counter-opinions are useful to further that. So, thanks.
  5. Purple Rain

    Purple Rain Crusader

    If you use that term once more you're on ignore. I find it hugely offensive.
  6. Isene

    Isene Patron with Honors

    Most members at the peak of the KKK were not physical, with perhaps as many as 6 million members in the early 1920s.

    Back to the Brian situation: Lynch mob it was, and admittedly so by more and more of those who got it rallied.
  7. Purple Rain

    Purple Rain Crusader

    Thank you, your honour. No doubt the people still reading what you have to say will wait with baited breath for your pronouncement. You and your friend Brian have fun now, y'hear?

  8. SchwimmelPuckel

    SchwimmelPuckel Genuine Meatball

    That's covered in Hubbard's policies.. I think what happened was that the innocent are always guity, no proof needed. In fact, people who needs proof are Supressive Persons and are also guilty.

  9. Isene

    Isene Patron with Honors

    Yup. Nail. Head.

    Judgment by character (tone scale), by opinion (SP) and by whim (DM) are rampant.

    The rest of the world judge the results of actions (mostly).
  10. Emma

    Emma Mother of Dragons Administrator

    Geir I read your post & the replies and I must say I'm a bit surprised.

    When this news broke pretty much everyone was shocked & upset. Even you Geir. You were one of the first responders to that thread on FB and this is what you said:

    There were plenty of other responses similar to yours on the thread. Yes people were upset, but you can't pin this on a Scientology background. From what I read people were just as harsh & possibly harsher on Tony O's blog than in the FB group. Most of the posters on Tony's blog were never in Scientology.

    As I understand it, you have a relationship/friendship with Brian and are keen to not judge him - fair enough. Well most of us don't have any connection to Brian & are looking at this with no agenda. I have nothing to gain by judging Brian harshly or lightly.

    To me it's pretty simple. Getting his money back meant more to him than than anyone or anything else. He assisted the Church of Scientology in trying to get Luis Garcia's attorney removed mid case. He is on THEIR side. The Church desperately want this case to go away and they bought Brian's loyalty for $350k. He sold it to them.

    I'm really glad the Headleys & others who bravely stand up & tell the truth about the CoS do not have a price tag. Marc Headley said they'd tried that on him already but they didn't sell out.

    Brian did. The money was more important.

    If you think people are not going to be upset by that then you misjudge natural human emotion.

    I see Alanzo says that one day soon we will all be apologising to Brian. What for?

    "Oh Hi Brian. I just wanted to say I'm really sorry for getting so mad at you for assisting the criminal cult of Scientology try to destroy a very important legal case. Sorry I got mad that you threw the people who had tried to help you get your money back WITHOUT selling your soul under a bus."

    I don't think so.
  11. Purple Rain

    Purple Rain Crusader

    A comment left on Isene's blog post by Scott Pilutik.

  12. Mick Wenlock

    Mick Wenlock Admin Emeritus (retired)

    Well, Geir, I think you have a part of a point - it is always good to examine the outrage of groups with a clinical eye.

    But Scott's post is perhaps the best answer to your point in that it is a clinical analysis of what Culkin did and why it matters.

    I have no idea what "motivated" Culkin - I assume that it was the same overweening self interest that prompted him to donate $350 K in such a short time - the reason I say that is because overweening self interest, along with self aggrandisement and delusions of supreme power attainment are all prevalent among the believers.

    but it is an observable fact that in his deposition he gives information to Scientology and its attorneys that he obtained from his interaction with people - who, if they had known he was going to do that - would not have spoken or interacted with him.

    It is also true that he used information that people trying to help him gave to him in order to forward his own interests at their expense.

    It is things like this that lead me to avoid giving newly out members big huge welcomes and trust.
  13. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor

    Long version deleted.

    Short version.

    What are you smoking Geir?
  14. Purple Rain

    Purple Rain Crusader

    If only that Isene/Culkin business partnership had gone ahead! Something tells me there would have been cause to have a bit more commiseration for the Garcias' position. Unfortunately the Garcias did not have quite the same self-preservation instincts as Isene.

    In any case I totally missed the bit where, after accidentally allowing this dreadful thing to occur, Brian rang the Garcias immediately to apologise and ask what he could do. As one would think should be de rigeur after making such an awkward social gaffe. But Brian had Brian's shock to worry about - never mind that the Garcias were expecting this even less. After all, the existence of that legal document was no mystery to him - only everybody else. Although of course Brian's shock was not that he had somehow been "betrayed" (again) by the cult, but the outpouring of anger from other critics.

    Then, of course, stunned by the audacity of the cult in actually using his declaration against his former partner, Brian [STRIKE]explains the whole story and they work out what they can do[/STRIKE] lies about having done it - which is not only a manly response but also highly intelligent - to lie about the obvious. How long did he think he could keep that one under his hat?

    However, the cult has exerted pressure on Brian that people like Marc Headley could not possibly imagine nor withstand, and this is why we will be lining up to apologise when he gets around to telling his next version of the truth - wherein Brian Culkin single-handedly rocks the cult of Scientology to its foundations and alone and unaided sends it crashing into oblivion.

    My breath is so bated for the next chapter. I can't wait till all is revealed. It's like waiting for OT IX.
  15. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor

    I haven't been too much involved in the Brian C. Thing. But I will happily apologise to him.....for 350 0000 bucks.
    Last edited: May 15, 2013
  16. Isene

    Isene Patron with Honors

    I am not pinning this on a Scientology background. What I am saying is that this shows in no uncertain terms that there is no visible difference with people handling such a situation even after years and years of auditing and training. That is my point of the OP. That, and that I have personally never seen anything this extreme up close.

    And I stand ny what I said in the group where you quoted me. This is fucked up. But I reserve judgment as to why it is fucked up until I have sufficient data on the situation. Other are free to go off like a rocket and "know" everything about why this is so. And I reserve the right to comment on such rocket launching.
  17. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor

    So are they still KKK?
  18. Emma

    Emma Mother of Dragons Administrator

    Ok Geir. I'll accept that you are just finding out these things that a lot of us have known for years.

    There are no Homo Novises. We are all just human beings - even after OT8!
  19. Purple Rain

    Purple Rain Crusader

    I was just getting over it until Isene turned up chucking a Godwin and calling me a Klansman and accessory to murder for daring to criticise his good buddy Brian, along with all the others who independently and amazingly felt the same way. I didn't realise this OUTRAGE constituted the equivalent of those actions, but now I have been thoroughly disabused of the idea that it's okay to criticise the actions of another person.

    Who am I to criticise Hubbard for throwing a couple of kids in the chain locker? I did not know his intentions. I have not heard the full story. Never mind the EFFECT of those actions. And likewise with Miscavige. Tom Cruise is right. This makes me little better than a lynch mobber or somebody who stomps on the heads of babies born to pregnant women while I am lynching them. So they do say one lives and one learns.

    Last edited: May 15, 2013
  20. Isene

    Isene Patron with Honors

    I miss the original intent of Anonymous. The lulz.

    When things became "serious business", many of the lulzy guys and gals went other places, and a lot was lost methinks.

    Dexter made a pertinent comment on my blog about the whole "we are at war"-thing that seems to instill drama on many sides of this table. To the point where human decency is relegated to peace times. Because WE ARE AT WAR. Etc.

    If I only could bring the lulzy back to the sandbox...

    Crap, I was too late and the party had turned sour when I got out of the church.