ThetanExterior
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Is it true that they're no longer using the tech and OEC volumes?
That sounds like quite a big org. The org that I was at only grossed £3k-8k at best. AOSH UK used to gross about £200k a week in the early 90s, if I recall correctly.For the first few months it was pretty routine to have the GI above 60k for each org, day and foundation.
That was the attitude. Get whatever management demanded, and disregard the cost in both money and people.But who really cares in the end when you have a bottomless resource, hypnotized donors!!!
Wow, what happened to the Orgs promising training and auditing in exchange for their work as a staff member, instead of just regging staff for those services?No, these were not all OT committee members. They recruit for ideal orgs now from all four corners of the earth. Promising everything, daycare, housing, training, wiped off org debt (freeloaders), and many others. They will give you an example of staff pay, which isn't really true, of course. Staff with bad credit were being helped by staff with goid credit. Personal loans were being arranged. I'm certain that there are guys holding the bag, as staff that got the loans can't pay. I've heard specifically that many orgs have hired quite a few NOI folks. They get CSW's to handle Ramadan, etc. My only point on that is these guys aren't really Scn'ists, just recruited under pressure and say yes, then suffer the consequences. We had failed staff from other orgs with unhandled ethics, then they came to our org and just caused more problems.
And yes, this org opened with a mission of SO folks, a large number. It was essentially opened with a full on bypass in most areas. Div 2, Div 7, Div 6, HGC operations were all essentially being run, or poorly run by SO. This is less so now but still happening. From what I saw, the most widely used tech was bait and badger, and poor 8-C on staff. Nothing really long term was being done or created, it was get the GI up. A very one sided view of business operation. Doesn't work in the long run.
Maybe even larger of a departure is the musical chair scene. Non-standard demotions, transfers, willy-nilly style sort of a fill this post du-jour. Like the Tech Sec post being held by four different people in a year. That's just one.
Now for the courserooms. Any old tech folks will appreciate how screwed up it is to have Div 6 students in the academy. It took only several months for Div 6 courseroom students to be in the academy. Transfers, people leaving staff, etc. brought that on. No one in management sees that as bad enough to correct. Not that I now really care, but they aren't even really trying to play by they're own rules.
I could keep going...
I was in Flag Bureaux in the 1980's. I've often remarked that most of the people there, myself included, were not qualified to manage a supermarket.Now I think the org management responds to upper management without a thought other than getting their asses reamed. Like upper management saying "get the such and such post filled", and local management moves a guy from a post he or she has been on for a couple months onto the post in question. Nothing that you would see in an "unenlightened" wog business, because if it occurred frequently the business couldn't run well. I think the SO datum of "you don't need to be hatted" is being used, that is they are willing to put guys instantly on a new post and expect them to operate as a professional on that post immediately.
I always felt there was a huge disconnect from upper management and orgs, and I now think this is systemic in SCN.
We watched a video of COB briefing org execs as part of exec training, where he said "do the usual" maybe 20 times. When you go back to the org it is nothing like that. It's like that was total BS or the management team doesn't know what the usual is.
When I was on Cl V Org staff, we had a Flag Rep from CLO pushing us to write Compliance Reports on Programmes that had been sent to the org from middle management. The programmes were bullshit. Every Thursday after 2pm, we would look at the targets, try to find easy ones that we could comply with, and then have to take photos of the evidence that we had done it. So you would put up a poster in Div 6, take a photo of it, then take it down again. Or put up a book display somewhere, take a photo of it, then take it down again. An UTTER waste of time. The targets also didn't really seem to apply very well to what we were actually doing, as I recall. So we never ACTUALLY followed the programme. It shocked me that people in the org even bothered to pretend. My attitude was, "this is bullshit, so why even bother doing it?" But I was the new kid on the block, so I had to sort of go along with the bullshit. I noticed very quickly that there was a lot of counter-productive nonsense going on that passed for 'management'. I couldn't believe it really. And the Thursdad 2pm thing seemed counter-productive in the extreme. There was no long-term planning at all. It was all about dismantling whatever you had built last week (goodwill with public, or whatever) to get this week's stats.Now I think the org management responds to upper management without a thought other than getting their asses reamed. Like upper management saying "get the such and such post filled", and local management moves a guy from a post he or she has been on for a couple months onto the post in question. Nothing that you would see in an "unenlightened" wog business, because if it occurred frequently the business couldn't run well. I think the SO datum of "you don't need to be hatted" is being used, that is they are willing to put guys instantly on a new post and expect them to operate as a professional on that post immediately.
I always felt there was a huge disconnect from upper management and orgs, and I now think this is systemic in SCN.
We watched a video of COB briefing org execs as part of exec training, where he said "do the usual" maybe 20 times. When you go back to the org it is nothing like that. It's like that was total BS or the management team doesn't know what the usual is.
I was in Flag Bureaux in the 1980's. I've often remarked that most of the people there, myself included, were not qualified to manage a supermarket.
But, yet, there we were.
I always liked the policy letters on Time Machines. Given the way staff followed the letter of whatever policy letter they were focusing on this week after they'd imbibed OEC management tech for several years, it always surprised me that nobody set up a time machine in the Org. It seemed to be the one piece of management tech that people instinctively thought "nah, that's bullshit" and didn't try to implement.That
That's awesome !!! Lol !
We had FEBC OEC folks around. Always an adventure waiting to see what they came up with. Like how to pay the rent.
What I've noticed is that people with little business experience get partially hatted on some admin tech datum, but not really understanding it, poorly apply it and there it all goes to hell. Then those same people go to some business and apply that same data and oops, another failure.
I always liked the FBO doing some analysis, and announcing the results to staff. We sat there and said to ourselves, what do we do with that? And then your pay for the next month totals $ 10.
Total disconnect from the world and how to run a business, but you've got LRH Admin Tech!! What could go wrong?
Yeah, back in the early 70's orgs were much more kosher in their conductWow, thanks for all the welcomes !!
I will start with the ideal org "strategy", and opening ideal orgs.
I noticed in the midst of the fundraising for the org I was involved in that service and delivery, the actual functioning of an org took a very big hit in regards to priority. It was ok to have a miserable, failing org during the evolution of fundraising. This bothered me as a gung ho scn. But god forbid, you couldn't say that. This org didn't even have a C/S for a long while. But they did have a group of "say anything and do anything " recruiters from the SO.
Then there was the reging. Unbelievable amounts of off policy, financial irregularities.
I will say that when I talk about things, you might note that I speak as a scn'ist when I describe something while I was inside and a part of the "church". Part of my complaint was the willingness for that group to go by the obvious things that were wrong. But as a whole now I see the current church as a HUGE FINANCIAL IRREGULARITY !!!
I had a friend that had vast experience in the construction and development game. It was explained to me that the way that they were going about the whole evolution, start to finish was incredibly stupid and expensive. Partly because it was being run by a group of novices, snotty nosed SO kids with a bit of "training", and a utter disregard to cost that could only be compared to a government. If you really want to screw something up, have it controlled by a government, or the Church of Scientology!!!!! Just notice the horror stories around that exist in last minute disasters. I've heard a few and seen a few, and these cost donors lots of money, and many were avoidable by building selection, handling by smart experienced builders, contractors. But who really cares in the end when you have a bottomless resource, hypnotized donors!!! There is a term in construction called Value Engineering. I'm not an expert, but essentially if you know how to build anything, there are several ways to do it, some are less expensive than others, and the eye can't even really tell what was done. But you have to build with an eye on that at all times. There wasn't an effort by the church to limit costs, that we could see. I know you could watch those painful videos, how the church was so smart and buying in volume from manufacturers, I'm actually not sure I believe that bull shit, because they didn't do it in building their buildings.
Then there was the "Exec Training" in LA. That's a farce.
More later...
I supposed that's possible, but what org are you thinking of that was more kosher in its conduct? Was there one in particular that you know about?Yeah, back in the early 70's orgs were much more kosher in their conduct
And there were still crappy things going on
Where the fuck were you whenever there weren't a shitload of crappy non-kosher things going on?Yeah, back in the early 70's orgs were much more kosher in their conduct
And there were still crappy things going on
I started in San Francisco in 1971. It had just become a CLIV org in 1968. There were a number of pretty groovy old-timers from ARCBA which had formed in Oakland when Ron had lectured there in 1950. Then I was on staff at FCDC from 1972-74 which was groovy as the office of LRH was the actual office where he had worked in the fifties with the original Sequoia University PhD on the wall. I used to audit in his bedroom sometimes. The worst I'd say of day to day was children were treated well enough, but just barely...I supposed that's possible, but what org are you thinking of that was more kosher in its conduct? Was there one in particular that you know about?
Not the Sea Org in LA.
In the early 70s, when ASHO and AOLA weren't at the complex yet Sea Org members left their children at the Melrose Org slum building all night long. That went on for years and years. Parents weren't ever allowed to bring their children home. They saw them for hygiene time or liberty (every other week if stats were up) and :45 family time daily. The children weren't even allowed to eat with the parents because they were only paid to eat at the Melrose. That practice didn't end until 1977 or 1978 when they were moved to the Fountain Avenue building.
L Ron Hubbard customarily sent married couples to work in different orgs for months or even years at a time, too. Sea Org members sent on Mission often didn't see their children at all during the mission, which could last a year or more.
The Melrose building was an overcrowded, rat and cockroach infested slum and the children rarely ever got out of their playpens. Some were 2 or 3 years old before they saw grass for the first time. I saw it.
ASHO and AOLA weren't better in the early 70s. Which orgs do you mean?
Thanks. I heard that SF and FCDC were pretty wild in the 60s and 70s, but then, I am also aware of much worse things with the children than "treated well enough." It sounds like you didn't have children when you were a staff member so didn't have the inside information. Staff were obligated to present a nice picture to new recruits and public.I started in San Francisco in 1971. It had just become a CLIV org in 1968. There were a number of pretty groovy old-timers from ARCBA which had formed in Oakland when Ron had lectured there in 1950. Then I was on staff at FCDC from 1972-74 which was groovy as the office of LRH was the actual office where he had worked in the fifties with the original Sequoia University PhD on the wall. I used to audit in his bedroom sometimes. The worst I'd say of day to day was children were treated well enough, but just barely...
45 minutes family time daily? What a waste of production time. Did they subsequently find the SP and put his/her head on a pike?In the early 70s, when ASHO and AOLA weren't at the complex yet Sea Org members left their children at the Melrose Org slum building all night long. That went on for years and years. Parents weren't ever allowed to bring their children home. They saw them for hygiene time or liberty (every other week if stats were up) and :45 family time daily.
That's a quaint euphemism. Did you wear a condom? Or did they have plenty of loo roll at that org at the time?I used to audit in his bedroom sometimes.
Millie and I would go to the Melrose bldg and pick up Justin, and Ali, and a couple other kids and take them to the park, ( at Melrose the kids had only concrete to play on), take them home and feed them, or maybe let them sleep over. The conditions there were deplorable.I supposed that's possible, but what org are you thinking of that was more kosher in its conduct? Was there one in particular that you know about?
Not the Sea Org in LA.
In the early 70s, when ASHO and AOLA weren't at the complex yet Sea Org members left their children at the Melrose Org slum building all night long. That went on for years and years. Parents weren't ever allowed to bring their children home. They saw them for hygiene time or liberty (every other week if stats were up) and :45 family time daily. The children weren't even allowed to eat with the parents because they were only paid to eat at the Melrose. That practice didn't end until 1977 or 1978 when they were moved to the Fountain Avenue building.
L Ron Hubbard customarily sent married couples to work in different orgs for months or even years at a time, too. Sea Org members sent on Mission often didn't see their children at all during the mission, which could last a year or more.
The Melrose building was an overcrowded, rat and cockroach infested slum and the children rarely ever got out of their playpens. Some were 2 or 3 years old before they saw grass for the first time. I saw it.
ASHO and AOLA weren't better in the early 70s. Which orgs do you mean?
That's awesome !!! Lol !
We had FEBC OEC folks around. Always an adventure waiting to see what they came up with. Like how to pay the rent.
What I've noticed is that people with little business experience get partially hatted on some admin tech datum, but not really understanding it, poorly apply it and there it all goes to hell. Then those same people go to some business and apply that same data and oops, another failure.
I always liked the FBO doing some analysis, and announcing the results to staff. We sat there and said to ourselves, what do we do with that? And then your pay for the next month totals $ 10.
Total disconnect from the world and how to run a business, but you've got LRH Admin Tech!! What could go wro