New, grew up in Scientology (NYC), trying to peice things together.

Discussion in 'New Member Introductions' started by Tuppence, Sep 18, 2017.

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  1. Tuppence

    Tuppence Patron

    Naive feels to me to be the wrong word, ignorant might be better, as I was a child and was unaware of this personally. I saw in the last couple years before LRH's death and it intensified shortly after DM seized power/came to power, there was a real crack down on children within the COS. I recall watching a snipit of a film of LRH saying children were of great value to the church and any religion in fact. Indoctorate them when they're young, this is how you grow the church, you instill the beliefs from birth and you're more likely to raise scientologists who live, eat and breathe scientology. Not sure when this was recorded, it was an old black and white film, and it was during one of the many COS gatherings I (as a child) got to attend. I had seen, probably starting in 1983, families disappearing overnight, they were there one day and gone the next, no goodbyes or anything. Nothing said about them, no explanations given, nothing, they were just gone. Then came 1988 when my mother was declared. The only warning we had was from my step-father at the time, he warned my mother DM was getting rid of families with more than 2 children. This is probably where the idea/thought/understanding that DM was the one behind it originated.

    When he warned her, she went immediately into action, was able to get my step-father to take custody of my older sibling as they were already in the sea org, my younger siblings were given to their father leagally, and there I was. I came with her because although she didn't want to tare me away from the only world I had known, she could not find someone to take custody of me. I moved with my mom, and though I still have issues with how it happened, I lucked out. My mom found the love of her life, I had a Daddy who loved me so unconditionally and I can look back and see it was a blessing in disguise, but the hurt and such is still there around losing that world.

    Again, not trying to argue anything here, but peice things together. There is what I know, from experiences and then there's what I feel, and some of it still hurts. I don't want to hurt anymore when I think about my siblings, I also don't want to detach from the love and memories. I don't want Scientology to be able to steal that away too.
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  2. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Hi Tuppence, and welcome.

    That's an interesting period in Scientology. I know there were some who felt a great sense of emptiness after the announcement, despite having been told it really was a "win," since - as Scientologists were supposed to believe - Hubbard had such confidence in the capability of International management, that he considered that he could leave Scientology in their hands, and "discard his (healthy) body and go off to do research at a completely new level," etc.

    The complete January 1986 event.


    People have been leaving the CofS since 1954 when Scientology was incorporated as a Church. Before that, people left Dianetics, some of the better remembered are J.A. Winter (who wrote the Introduction for 'DMSMH'), and John Campbell (who published the first article on Dianetics in his 'Astounding Science Fiction' magazine). They left in 1950 and 1951.

    Then came the transition to Scientology, after Hubbard lost the rights to the name 'Dianetics', and decided to drive former business partner, supporter and benefactor, Don Purcell, bonkers by concocting - pretty much overnight - "Whole Track Maps," and then the book 'History of Man' ("This is a cold blooded and factual account of your last 60 trillion years.") And more left.

    Richard DeMille, who wrote some pieces now attributed to Hubbard, left around 1953.

    In 1955, Hubbard, in his Manual on Dissemination of Material, instructed Scientologists to "attack the attacker," and "ruin utterly" with frivolous lawsuits those who used Scientology counseling - or any variation thereof - without permission from the Organization, and more left.

    In 1959, L. Ron Hubbard Jr. left.

    Lots of people left in the early 1960s with the era of 'Sec Checking', deciding that any group that insists that its members undergo metered interrogation, with such questions as "Are you a pervert" or "Have you ever had any unkind thoughts about L. Ron Hubbard?" was not for them.

    By 1965, Hubbard wrote 'Keeping Scientology Working', invented the SP Doctrine and SP Declares, Disconnection, the Fair Game Law, and the confidential, "deadly serious," and vital to your survival, history of the universe&your mind, and starting calling himself 'Source', and many more people left. Amongst them was the first person to have be a 'Doctor of Scientology' (the Class 12 of that day), Jack Horner.

    In 1967 came the Sea Org and Xenu, and more left.

    By the late 1960s and early 1970s, the Commodore and his ashtray-carrying 13 year old girl servants were a law unto themselves on the 'Flagship', the "safest and sanest place in the universe," and more left.

    John McMaster, 'The World's First Real Clear', was Declared an "SP," and left.

    Writer William Burroughs came along, was involved briefly, did the Clearing Course then, upon completion, when asked if he wished to sign up for OT2, said, "No thanks," and left.

    Many others left.

    Then came the RPF and the RPF's RPF, and the Children's RPF, and more left.

    By early 1977, Hubbard had written his "LSD, Years after they had Come of off' HCOB, in which he described people who had ever taken LSD as "zombies," and soon after told them that they were required to wear rubber suits and run around for hours, and more left.

    Then, in July 1977 came the FBI raids, and two years later came the court-ordered release of thousands of pages of previously secret Scientology documents, and Hubbard's super-secret spying and covert attack tech, and even more left.

    Then Hubbard decided that almost everyone was "Clear" and needed to exit Missions (which he was in the early stage of looting), and go "up lines" and spend their money there, and more people left.

    This was followed, a few years later, by Hubbard responding to the first Mission Holders Meeting by sending his #1 henchman, David Miscavige, to "handle" the 2nd Mission Holders meeting, and more left.

    Then, roughly around that time, came the partial unearthing of Hubbard's past by way of the "Shannon documents," obtained through the Freedom of Information act, and more left.

    By July 1984, there was Gerry Armstrong vs. Church of Scientology, and the further unearthing of Hubbard's past, and even more left.

    Then came books like 'Messiah or Madman?' and 'Barefaced Messiah', and many more left.

    Then came the Internet.


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  3. Tuppence

    Tuppence Patron

    No, she won't even talk with me about scientology, and hasen't in almost 30 years, so I suspect she would not be ready for a message board of any kind.

    I respect she's dealing with things her way, and I know how painful it is to talk about my siblings, so we don't. I need to talk about it and them though because although it's been almost 30 years, I still think of them often, I still love them and they're still family. On top of that I need to peice it all togeather. I think when she's ready to talk she will.
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  4. This is NOT OK !!!!

    This is NOT OK !!!! Gold Meritorious Patron


    You say you have questions.

    FIRE AWAY!!!
  5. Tuppence

    Tuppence Patron

    Hello, and thank you for the welcome.

    Where there have always been people who have "blown" or even left voluntarilay, there seemed to be a purge of families with more than two children after DM rose to power. I say purge for lack of a better word to use. I was there in NYC when the announcement came. I was quite saddened to hear of his death, it was one of those times when I can recall what I was wearing when I heard the announcement. It was a very big deal to Scientologists and their families.
  6. Tuppence

    Tuppence Patron

    I am not exactly sure how to word them just yet. I know I have them and they've been sitting there, but it's hard to ask, as for the last 30ish years I have been supressing them and kept thinking "nope, can't ask that" whenever they came up. Now I have a place to ask, and they're all running away.

    First question, am I wrong in my understanding that the stance on life (in COS) is that it is a punishment? I recall reading or hearing somewhere (can't remember where exactly, but it seemed to be an understanding) that we are all evil, and we did something bad which landed us in a prision of coporal bodies so we can't go galivanting around the galaxy causing more harm. We are scentenced to live out ___ # of lives for our crimes or until we learn our lesson, then we'll be ready to rejoin our fellow theatens. This is where reincarnation comes from. Or did I misunderstand something?
  7. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    One of the cruel jokes that Scientology inflicts on people is the idea that you are responsible for everything. The KRC Triangle for example: With Knowledge come Responsibility and with Responsibility comes Control.

    Then there is Dirty Harry: A good man knows his limitations.

    The truth is somewhere in between. There is only so much one can do with other family members and often the lessons they have to learn can't or shouldn't come from you. Collectively efforts like ESMB and The Bunker and Rinder's Blog put the truth out there and this increases the chances that these people will stumble over the truth on their own.

    The Sea Org motto is Revenumus, “We Come Back”. People rightly understand this to mean that having signed a billion year contract that after they die they will rejoin the SO in future lives, but what is not typically understood is that Sea Org members believe that they already fought the good fight under LRH as Loyal Officers in an intergalactic war in another previous life and by joining the Sea Org they also came back.

    The SO is a Spartan society where the children are essentially considered owned by the government at birth and Scientology absolutely considers themselves a self contained government that is or should be ethically and technologically superior to every other government on Earth. They may not leave new borns out overnight on a rock so only the tough ones survive but they do just about everything else that they can get away with in today’s society to vet them. But vetting babies and young children is just too expensive and presents too great of a legal and PR liability.

    People at the top like LRH and DM can also see the real stats on staff retention and I think most people leave within 3 to 5 years. It may be more like 1 to 3 years under DM. The retention after a child is born probably dropped significantly to the point that the parents just weren’t worth keeping around and the longer they stayed after that point the more experiences, observation and intel could be accumulated which could be used against the Church later. Parents who routed out as a consequence of having a child were also probably more inclined to be more vocal and damaging to the Church than those without children.

    This was something I always had a difficult time rationalizing as a Sea Org member - all the talk about families and children which was clearly just intended as fodder for the public and the reality that families and children were at the absolute bottom rung of any consideration within the SO. You even have to CSW your Commanding Officer to get married. You’d think they would be holding Church dances to pair people up like most sensible cults. They expend tremendous resources to recruit and train SO members and then treat them like crap then they leave and here they have a built in recruitment pool and they treat it like crap also.

    BTW, in the following LRH correspondence, this is exactly how LRH wrote in internal orders and advices when excitedly trying to impress upon people that due to his genius he had figured out that one thing that no other person on earth ever could: Parents are The Why! Whee, Yeow!

    "Hey Toby! I just found out why I couldn't really get the child scene up on Flag and why they got offloaded.


    "I never before had this datum.....

    "This was what cost the kids FLAG. I found this in interrogating someone who had been on the lines -- it never came up before; it was thought to be totally correct. YOW WOW! It's a total offload of SO responsibility. As well as a Comm Ev offense to cross order. So this was why nothing could be handled. AND I AM CERTAIN THAT IS THE PAC WHY. It is a cultural aberration.

    "Give me the scene, give me the scene, give me the scene! I've had losses on this area and I got the why. I knowed there was catamounts in them mountings!

    "The only way this can backfire now is counter propaganda like 'They are costing us our chillun' or some such nonsense.When we are trying to give them top grade A spunky be-proud-of em offspring!"

    LRH - Despatch to LRH Comm US 28 Aug 73 i
  8. EZ Linus

    EZ Linus Cleared Tomato

    I too have heard, Tuppence, that we are all criminals and non-conformists, but I can't say where I heard this data exactly. I always just "knew" this information the entire time I was involved in Scientology before I even walked into my first org. I knew we lived on a prison planet, but I had no idea what the OT levels were all about. I did, however have, or at least I thought I had, inside information by the way I was originally introduced to Scientology. I never heard about the "sentence" you speak of -- of living out X number of lifetimes as punishment, or life itself being a punishment. Life was a game as far as I knew.

    I finally got more officially involved, got on staff and went as far up the Bridge to Clear. I never did my OT levels and only learned about them after I left via the Internet.
  9. Tuppence

    Tuppence Patron

    Mind if I ask how long you were a Scientologist and how long ago you left?
  10. EZ Linus

    EZ Linus Cleared Tomato

    Well, all in all I was "in" for 20 years, give or take. My start was complicated (a few years with "squirrels" and reading all the books), and then when I first left, I left as a member but still called myself a Scientologist and practiced for a year+ until I poked around on the Internet. I've been out for a long time: 17 years. All of this makes me seem (feel) really old.
  11. Tuppence

    Tuppence Patron

    Old is relitive LOL
  12. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    The following HCOB isn’t exactly what you are looking for but it is derivative of the concept and exemplifies how the rational is applied in reality. You will notice that this provides an iron clad exemption for any Church responsibility for anything other than forcing Scientologists to provide deeply personal information which we now know is consolidated into a digital file and used by OSA against people who speak out.

    What I think you are looking for is the “Original Overt” where a presumably not in a body yet thetan way back on the whole track decided that the best way to damage another thetan was to convince them that they could be harmed - since killing a thetan was impossible, they could only be degraded and they could only be degraded if they themselves made the postulate that a thetan could be harmed. This of course presents a problem, because the thetan doing the convincing of another thetan by doing so makes the observation and postulate that a thetan can be harmed and then accepts that postulate themselves, and so on…resulting in thetans being stuck in physical bodies in the Matter, Energy, Space, Time universe as they progress down this scale of degradation and lower levels of awareness.

    This ties into the whole implant thing. Alien societies with an understanding of thetans and electronics intuit that they can’t destroy a thetan so they degrade them into unconsciousness with pain, drugs and hypnosis to the point where they are mindless BT clingons. And this in turn ties into the whole anti-psychiatry thang because in all these intergalactic societies doing all the implants it is their equivalent of psychiatrists who are doing all the PDH and having been reborn into bodies on Earth they get back into psychiatry because they are either dramatising their old lives as psychiatrists or their old lives as people being PDHed by psychiatrists.

    Hope that clears things up for you.

    (Also issued as HCO PL 31 Dec. 59R, same title)1; 2
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  13. Tuppence

    Tuppence Patron

    EZ Linus, how did you reconsile the we're all bad and on a prison planet with the idea that we choose our parents, our lives etc? These two concepts seem to be at odds with each other.

    One clearly states it's a choice and the other indicates there is no choice in it.

    Also, If you don't mind my asking, how do sea org members "come back", what's the point of the billion year contract if when you reach Clear or even better OT (considering that's supposed to release you from this prison)?
  14. EZ Linus

    EZ Linus Cleared Tomato

    Hi Tuppence,

    These are interesting questions both personal and general. I can answer best I can.

    I never said I had an understanding that we were all "bad," just that we were nonconformists. I never thought of this as being bad. I thought that the people sent to this "prison planet" were the innovators and the artists of whatever stupid society out in outer space that had the power to send us here. They didn't know what to do with us, so they sent us here.

    I personally did not ever think we chose our parents. But I thought on some level, IF we'd done Scientology in our previous life, we'd make sure we had access to it in our next life. Maybe I never thought this picking parents thing was real because both my parents were real pieces of work.

    Sea Org members have the slogan "We come back" even if they reach the higher levels of the Bridge because they still want to be in the Sea Org with the purpose of clearing the planet.
  15. Tuppence

    Tuppence Patron

    Sorry EZ, (I hope you don't mind it I call you EZ; if you do, please tell me) I did not mean to imply you agreed with this, or any other aspect of it. I was currious how these two conflicting schools of thought do not contredict each other, and then the idea behind going Clear and then having a billion year contract.

    As I've stated, just trying to understand ideas that conflict. You've explained it beautifully. Thank you
  16. EZ Linus

    EZ Linus Cleared Tomato

    No problem, and don't be sorry at all. :)

    For the record, I do not believe any of this stuff anymore.
  17. Tuppence

    Tuppence Patron

    Some of it I never did, some of it I still do, maybe because I grew up with it all and some stuff made sense while other stuff didn't make any sense if I held the other information as truth
  18. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    What you noticed was Miscavige taking over in the last couple of years before LRH died. There was a greatly heightened fear of "disaffection", because they no longer had LRH's ability to charm and con people, so they had to increasingly rely on intimidation.
  19. Miss Ellie

    Miss Ellie Patron with Honors

    I was out before LRH died but spent from age 9 to 18 in. I had an easier time than it sounds like you did. I found healing here and hope you do too. I am posting under my real name and no one has hassled me. In fact they have never tried to punish me, etc. for my posts. You may or may not be as lucky - I think they have bigger fish to fry than us.

    Some good conversations with your mom and other family members that are not in might help you get to the facts and causes of issues. Soft and loving... listen and share. Do not blame but ask why - give feed back on how you saw and felt it at the time and what it means to you now.

    Communicating with love, honesty and kindness may get some of the answers you are looking for. But remember that it might or might not give you "closure" or peace. What ever you get from us, family & friends I hope will be worth the time and effort.

    We are here, we will listen, we will share, we will support you.
  20. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    Hey Tuppence, Welcome!

    During the 80's I was on staff at Boston Org, but did make a couple trips to the CLO between 1984-86. I know a number of people who worked up there during that period, including several who used to work in Boston but got recruited for the Sea Org and ended up in NY.
    Joanie Gambino and Jon DeVries were a couple of former staff that moved up to NY from Boston.

    Anyways, I've been out since 1989, and for twenty years thereafter I rarely talked about Scientology with anyone, until I got onto this message board actually. ESMB has been very helpful for myself and many others over the years; hopefully for you as well.