New member. Currently reading Dianetics...

Discussion in 'New Member Introductions' started by bonaqua, Sep 6, 2018.

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  1. Bill

    Bill Gold Meritorious Patron

    No it doesn't. You don't understand science and you don't understand placebo effect. Your inability to think with the subject of Scientology is astounding.

    EDIT:
    Let me help you.
    A good technology must have these qualities: Predictability, Consistency and Reliability.
    Placebo effect is unpredictable, inconsistent and unreliable.
    Predictable: Hubbard's "tech" has specific and exact promised results -- they are on the Grade Chart and in HCOBs. The actual results are unpredictable and never the promised results. That's placebo effect.
    Consistent: Each process should always produce the same result on every "pc". With Hubbard's "tech" one never knows what will happen to the "pc", if anything. That's placebo effect.
    Reliable: With application of a good technology, no unexpected or undesirable effects should occur. That's not Hubbard's "tech". No one knows what's going to happen, good or bad. That's placebo effect.

    Hubbard's "tech" results are consistent with placebo effect and not the slightest like a good technology.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2018
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  2. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    Stop encouraging all this introversion and attention on mental issues, it's gone way too far ... mental health is a lucrative business these days and scientology was at the very forefront of it!

    Society seems to be fixated on 'mental health' and much of it is self-created by drug (street and prescription) and alcohol abuse ... put your efforts into getting that reduced or help people with very real issues like the lack of clean water and food if you genuinely want to contribute something positive and STFU about hubbard and his ridiculous tek!

     
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  3. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    Sigh.

    I've wanted to say that for years ... it isn't really aimed at you Birdie, it's aimed at the world in general.



    :)
     
  4. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Seems I accidentally posted this to the wrong thread a few minutes ago.
    For what it's worth, this is the thread where it was meant to be placed.


    __________

    Making blanket negative statements about every bit and piece of Scientology may feel good, but it may also drive a person further into Scientology.

    ___________


    When confronted by a person, who is in the process of being lured into Scientology, and has just pleasantly used his newly acquired "Comm Course" skills to establish communication with, and happily extrovert, a withdrawn little old lady neighbor, and is very pleased with himself about his good deed, and equally as impressed with his success applying the "tech," don't go

    [​IMG]

    on the person, because that probably won't help free him from the sucking power of Scientology.

    The fact is the little old lady did feel better, and was cheerfully extroverted.

    Recognize that, and then take it from there.
     
  5. pineapple

    pineapple Patron Meritorious

    People who leave scn often start out thinking the problem is the organization, not the "tech." But after you're out of the scn environment, where the tech is constantly lauded and you constantly rehearse your "wins," the tech begins to pale, too, and you realize it wasn't all it was cracked up to be.

    And if the tech is so great, why is the organization so effed up?
     
  6. F.Bullbait

    F.Bullbait Oh, a wise guy,eh?

    OK here is some cheap advice from a Scientology angle.

    Go to eBay and purchase a copy of Self Analysis. Get a new copy as it will have a cardboard platen in it that tends to get lost in used copies. Try it. It is not very demanding and quite effective in the short run.

    Download Self Clearing found here (scroll down) :http://freezoneearth.org/downloads/files.html

    It is a compendium of Scientology-type processes. Again it is not very demanding and can be quite effective.

    Some of the author's ideas should be read with skepticism; it is the processes that are of interest.

    Hope this helps. ;)
     
  7. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Silver Meritorious Patron

    Although it is true results are not necessarily predictable I was surprised by often getting the exact predicted result. In fact, I had an S&D run on me and later studying the tech on S&D was surprised that Hubbard's description of what it feels like to get the right item was exactly what I had felt

    Again...

    I'm confident much good result does come from placebo effect but far more does come just from the tech even though it is less than 100% consistent
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
  8. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    Where's a link to Paul's robot?
     
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  9. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Silver Meritorious Patron

    I'd like to indicate there was some bypassed charge on that but the tone arm is now back down in range with a loose and lively needle

    so...

    Put down the cans...

    Thank you.

    Feel that computer screen

    Good

    Feel that mouse pad

    Good

    Feel your left knee

    Thank you

    Give us a little can squeeze

    That's just fine, end of session. There's no examiner nearby but it's no big thing...
     
  10. F.Bullbait

    F.Bullbait Oh, a wise guy,eh?

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  11. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Yes, you are a unique person. There is no doubt in my mind that any result you got from Scientology would absolutely thrill you, that any memories you have of Scientology will always be wonderful (the painful and bad ones pushed aside), that you will always go on exScientologist sites and proclaim the wondrous virtues of it all, and no matter who dies, who suffers, who loses their family and children, no matter how rich people get at the top and how bankrupt they get at the bottom of the Scientology pyramid scheme, you will always believe, you will always have L Ron Hubbard as your god and you will always, always be the faithful follower and no amount of evidence or tears or sadness or lack of success in your personal life will ever dissuade you.

    We know. For some reason you never got past ARC Straightwire, though, despite all your writings and expoundings of how amazing it all is and how nothing compares to it and your commitment to L Ron Hubbard. You're not getting any younger, so why haven't you pursued your dream of being like L Ron Hubbard and buying his stairway to heaven? Why did you stop at ARC SW? I would imagine with all the praises you heap on the man year after year, your life must be amazing. So why do you just write about it? Why haven't you done it?

    Are you afraid it won't live up to the illusion you have in your mind?
     
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  12. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Silver Meritorious Patron

    JS...

    No, I don't edit my memories like that. In fact, as I have often stated my exwife's brother Greg Wilhere played a significant role in the wrongful death of my son.

    Hubbard is an enigmatic figure to whom I am NOT committed. However, inasmuch as he developed theory and techniques which have made it possible to do many very good things for many people it would be dishonorable of me to fail to express sincere gratitude and respect

    If you measure success by what a person owns I am an abject failure, currently dying on the street

    I am myself pleased with what I have produced in life and in fact I have composed a proposed Amendment to The Constitution of The United States of America which deserves to reach the floor of Congress where it might be approved.

    If so it will surely be ratified by the states
     
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  13. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Clay Pigeon (Commander Birdsong),
    Memories fade, whether we want them to fade or not. It's just what happens. In Scientology, we were taught to ignore the bad and move past it. That's okay short-term, but bad things need to be addressed by more than a knowledge report and committees of evidence that are little more than a gang-bang on those who aren't true believers or big financial contributors.

    Yes, you mentioned your proposed Amendment a few years when you were using a different ID. I remember about your son, too. Very sad. :bigcry: Birdie, I hope you found some sort of inner peace. If not, I hope you can use this Board in a different way and open up a bit so you can. There are good people here.

    Back to you and Scientology and my original question: why haven't you continued past ARC S/W? It certainly isn't from you not believing in the tech; you spend thousands of hours writing about your love and gratitude to L Ron Hubbard. If this is what you believe in, then, what are you doing about it?

    You are a Life Repair completion, right? Do you believe your life has been repaired so that you can move on with your goals? Did you attain the EP or not? If not, Birdie, it's not too late to just open up and chat with people here. Life is too short not to have heart-to-hearts with others while we can. If what you want more than anything is to do more in Scientology and you haven't done more in decades, well, you sound kind of stuck.

    Birdie, no matter how many thousands of times you write here how grateful you are to Hubbard, there will never be enough people with sufficient THANK YOUs! I GOT THATs! :) Because YOU, Birdie, need to figure out what it is you really need acknowledged and acknowledge yourself.

    So how about changing something then? You've done the same thing, written the same undying love and gratitude toward Hubbard for years. Why don't you write about you, Birdie. Just you. Not about Hubbard, about you. You might be surprised how people will listen when you open up the door to your heart.
    I wish you the best, and hope you attain your goals, whatever and wherever they may be. :rose:We are here, Birdie, whenever youare ready to open up and try to get a bit unstuck.

    Exscn helped me with that. Someone here can help you, too.
     
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  14. TomKat

    TomKat Patron with Honors

    For a new perspective on the HISTORICAL JESUS, check out this 15 minute clip:



    Jesus was a political figure declaring a Jubilee year to forgive everyones' debts -- sin means debt, not a moral transgression. But the creditors couldn't have that.

    So Hubbard's implant-Jesus might be closer to correct than the Christians'
     
  15. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    Thanks for this.

    To my knowledge this is all of the stuff Scientologists do between the Purif and Clear.

    Free of charge in the comfort of your own home.
     
  16. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    Feel my hand across your ugly mug!

    :D
     
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  17. TomKat

    TomKat Patron with Honors

    The most basic principle of scientology is that bringing yourself into the present alleviates uncomfortable feelings (causing you to drink). I suggest reading Eckhart Tolle's The Power of Now. But most important, when you want to drink, do an exercise to bring yourself fully into the present: start touching things, really feeling them, looking at things, really looking at them, until you feel better. If this is working for you, read up on the scientology process CCH's 1 - 4 and find a non-church ("independent") auditor in your area to deliver them to you (after you've stopped drinking) -- make sure they are familiar with doing them for hours and hours, most are not.
    And read up on co-dependent relationships.
    And hopefully eventually you can find a way to make a living that you don't hate.
     
  18. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron with Honors

    That's a strange reply for a dyed-in-the-wool Scientologist to make to the declaration that you would like to be "more aware". "More aware" is the kind of thing that a Scientologist would say. In fact, I'm surprised you stated your goal in that way, as a non-Scientologist at the time. I don't think I've ever heard a non-Scientologist say that.
     
  19. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron with Honors

    I somewhat agree with the observation that Scientology 'looked like' a cult (though I can't speak for what it looked like 50 years ago - I got involved in the late 80s). From the moment I got involved, I was thinking 'this looks like a cult', and I was only a teenager at the time. But at the same time, the promises made were very alluring, so I consciously decided to explore it further and suspend my incredulity for a while.

    Scientology is a much more systematic and internally-consistent set of ideas than any other spiritual movement I have encountered. It has an explanation for all occasions, most of which are derived from its first principles. At the time, I took that as a sign that it had more chance of being 'it' than other spiritual systems I had encountered.

    One comment made to me by others (non-Scientologists) at the time was 'but he's a science fiction writer'. With hindsight, this could be an explanation as to why Scientology is so internally consistent: Hubbard may simply have written Scientology as a sort of participative novel. He wasn't bound by the constraint of having to actually validate whether his techniques worked (which would be an awful bore); it just all had to LOOK internally consistent. Having said that, many people DO get wins at the bottom of the Bridge, so I don't think it was ENTIRELY just made up as a novel. And that's what gives it such a potent hook with which to hook people in at the outset.

    I used to look at the behaviour of the members and think "this is a cult" and then look at the teachings and think "but these seem very plausible".
     
  20. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron with Honors

    Your description doesn't sound like placebo effect to me. The characteristics of Scientology auditing that you describe sound to me like being consistent with the idea that Scientology's explanation for the generated phenomena is not an accurate explanation of what is actually going on when somebody is audited. So it's more like "incorrect explanatory model" than placebo effect.

    Placebo effect, like 'confirmation bias' can be used by people as a proxy for the principle "if it doesn't fit my view of the world, then it's a placebo effect/confirmation bias/[similar scientifically-sounding collocation]'. Such people will accept the evidence of their own eyes when it fits with their preconceived model of the world, but reject it as 'observational error' in all other cases. That's not really science, in my opinion. I'm not claiming that "such people" include the poster - I'm just generalising my point a bit to cover other reactions that I observe frequently in people.
     
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