OT 8's their views

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by lightweight, Jan 1, 2019.

View Users: View Users
  1. lightweight

    lightweight Patron

    Hello - was wondering if there were any ot8's on here that could tell me - is amnesia between lifetimes really addressed on this level (ie processes for it but as I now to believe, empty imaginations) or is it just a lie to get you to go up the bridge to ot8?

    Also does anyone know of anyone walking out of the room and leaving scn when they see the ot3 material?
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  2. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Hi, IDK about your first question, but I worked at AOLA for eight years and can answer the second question.

    Yes, many people walked out or blew after reading the OT3 materials. If they wanted to walk out of the courseroom, the supervisor escorted the person and stayed with him/her in the hallway until he felt they had a long enough break and then went back with them and had them go through the clay demos and other stuff. Lots of hand-holding, basically. There were rarely ever two people reading the OT3 materials for the first time at the same time, even at the busiest time of Scientology in the 80s, so this was not a problem.

    I remember Harold (OT3 supervisor) sort of laughing at the reaction and waiting for it. Everyone reacted, most thought it was absurd. He and I were friends for years and he was AOLA's OT3 course supervisor for something like eight years or more.

    We spent thousands of hours in call-in trying to recover those who blew after reading OT3. Many were recovered, only to leave Scn forever after finishing it.

    A lot of people also blew between Solo 1 (courseroom theory) and Solo 2 (audited level). Not sure of the reason for that because there isn't anything particularly objectionable on Solo 2, but mainly I think they didn't want to pay the big bucks for the OT levels and had enough of Scn.
     
    • Winner Winner x 4
    • Thanks Thanks x 3
    • Love Love x 1
    • List
  3. ILove2Lurk

    ILove2Lurk Lisbeth Salander

    We should probably ask the author/inventor/originator of the OT8 materials, Ray Mithoff.*
    He actually had to re-write them a few times. AFAIK, as the original rollout did not go well
    at all. He's currently locked up at Gold Base, presumably for the rest of his life. Odd, that
    no one has seen him at any events or on the street for the past twenty years.

    We should also probably ask the presumed author/originator of the OT8 marketing, Captain
    David Miscavige. Funny how this all works.

    :shrug:




    Caveat: I'm not OT 8 so how would I really know? :coolwink:

    Footnotes: * Ron was in rough shape by his early 70's. Left tasks to others.
    Hubbard was very physically ill on and off from about 1968 to his death in
    1986 (ages 57 to 75). Much more so than most people his age. He suffered
    from multiple bouts of pneumonia yearly at one time (admitted in a letter),
    heart attacks, strokes, pancreatitis (taken to hospital in early '85 for a very
    bad attack . . . could not walk by himself), among other things.

    From age 64 on, he exhibited early signs of dementia or senility. I'm not a doctor
    so I can't exactly describe it . . . but he had it. Something going on there. (From my
    readings of posts by people who worked directly with him face to face, including
    ESMB posters afaceinthecrowd, cowboy, and others.) He suffered from an uncontrollable
    temper and rages as he got older.

    Additional (medical doctor's) opinion about
    Hubbard's dementia or senility in his final years

    There's a video in this posting: Bill Franks Interview

    Highlight: from 1:03:30 to 1:08:30, Bill Franks talks about a visit to Hubbard's doctor,
    Gene Denk, and the doctor reveals that Hubbard is suffering from dementia, getting
    worse and is highly paranoid. Asks if Bill could help out in any way.

    Despite this, Hubbard claims to be very clear and full OT.
     
    • Winner Winner x 4
    • Thanks Thanks x 3
    • Like Like x 2
    • List
  4. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    I'm not OTVIII but I'm just as well-qualified to answer your question as anyone at that supposed level is since the whole subject is a fairy-story anyway, second-rate science fiction dressed up as a serious study of the human condition. It's all lies as you seem to have worked out for yourself, so any supposed amnesia between any supposed between-lives couldn't possibly be addressed with scientology 'tek' anyway.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  5. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    I've never really understood why anyone would be shocked upon reaching OTIII. If you were auditor trained before you did it, then you'd been exposed to implants and entities and the idea that things happened to you on other planets over the past trillions of years. And even if you weren't auditor trained (apart from the Solo course), you still had to get through OTII before you started OTIII. What on earth did people think they were auditing on OTII, if OTIII came as a shock to them? To me, if implants and entities and past lives and space opera shock a person, they should blow long before they reach OTIII. Even the student hat contains sufficient references to that kind of stuff to make it obvious what Scientology is about.

    There's nothing shocking about OTIII, if you have done the steps to reach that point - it's entirely consistent with what preceded it in Scientology on the Bridge, not to mention that people are TOLD way in advance by sales people that OTIII is about a catastrophe that happened 75 million years ago, and its effect on the individual. People just mustn't have been paying attention if they reached OTIII before suddenly being shocked. Yes, the way the elements are combined may be unexpected, but none of the elements of OTIII should be shocking to an OTII completion (with all the prerequisites entailed in that). Anyone who reached OTIII and was shocked (in a disbelief sort of a way) by the content can't have understood a fraction of the Bridge they did prior to that, in my opinion. Which is bizarre, given the emphasis on study tech, checking people's understanding, etc.

    Presumably there's a reason for people's shock. I'd be interested to hear from people who had that reaction of "this is fucking ridiculous", and why they didn't think that when they read History of Man or stuff on the Class IV course about implants, or all the other stuff that built up a picture of roughly where the OT levels would be going.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  6. lotus

    lotus autonomous rebellous

    Hello and welcome!

    I am no OT8 , but as many of us read those ''materials'' from OT3 up to 8.
    AS previously said by Straty, this peudo hot stuff has been taken from old LRH sci-fi books to be recycled into a pseudo spiritual degree to be attained. (and thus make $$$$$$$$$ with it)
    If you do a thorough search on internet, you will be provided with those materials, could read it as we did and remain healthy and alive ....)

    My reply would be to first address the prior question: Is there other lifefetimes after death ????

    Actually, no human being could answer this question and proove it is the case. No one came back and said: Hey..here I am again,I was your mother!

    Despite LRH claimed so, an theSO motto is: We come back""
    No one ever came back....

    So addressing amnesia between lifetimes is pure speculation of such alledged amnesia.

    Aunty Lotus , after all those years of $cientology finally discovered someof the life secrets in the true nature of life and it's simplicity ; It just takes the courage and ability to recognize it and acknowledge it....even if it doesn't appear fair.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  7. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    I got as far as OTI, and I had drunk so deep of the Kool-aid that I imagine I would have accepted anything in my OTIII pack had I got that far. But when I look at it in the cold light of day it is astonishing that highly intelligent people I had enormous respect for like John Parselle for instance must have taken it at face value, since he stuck around after he did it and went on to the first Class VIII course at Flag.

    The OTIII narrative is riddled with inconsistencies and ludicrous situations, millions of people being called in for tax audits for example or hogwash about needles in lungs, thetans frozen with glycol and alcohol, volcanoes that didn't even exist at the supposed time of the incident, DC8's flying between galaxies at superluminal speeds, oh, the cognitive dissonance is deafening!

    If I only knew then what I know now!
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
    • Winner Winner x 3
    • Like Like x 2
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    • List
  8. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    • Like Like x 4
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  9. lotus

    lotus autonomous rebellous

    Oh and why those truths weren't told between delluded $cientologists ???
    Because of the ''confidential'' nature of the material and $$$$ civil suit attached to any leak about it.
    People would just blow and let it behing them, withouth getting into any fairgame and civil legal procedures done to them by OSA.

    Perfect examples to his would be:

    1) Gerry Armstrong who leaked the LRH affirmations materials and how his life had been maade a misery
    2) the COS spies who l ook after Pat Broeker to make sure he remains silent
    3) The fair gaming of Arnie Lerma (who released OT materials)..and the tragical issue of a life being made a hell...

    Although, you still can get much information on Gerry Armstrong and Arnie Lerma websites.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  10. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Gold Meritorious Sponsor


    REASON: Because being on the Solo 1 Course at an ADVANCED ORG would necessarily mean one would be in proximity to OTs. Any prolonged exposure to the characteristics and behavior of Operating Thetans would have an inversely proportional effect on one's willingness to achieve that mentally deluded state for oneself.

    This proves the exception to Hubbard's technology called THE ARC TRIANGLE, where purportedly the more one is near and communicates, the greater the affinity and understanding and love one would have for that "terminal". This exception to the ARC TRIANGLE tech was first noted in experiments where people were intentionally locked inside of burning buildings and scientists noted that their affinity for the fire diminished as they "communicated" with, got "reality" on and "occupied the same space" as the flames.

    Scientologists locked inside a cult, likewise experienced 3rd degree burns on the aptly named 3rd OT level. (Wall of Fire)
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
    • LOL LOL x 5
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    • List
  11. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Gold Meritorious Sponsor

    OT VIII addresses "wholetrack amnesia".

    Naturally, Dr. Hubbard did scientific research on this and wrote many scienfitic books. He is widely considered the world's greatest scholar on the subject of wholetrack amnesia, having written millions of words on the subject.

    Due to Dr. Hubbard leaving our planet sooner than we, as homo sapiens, were able to predict or really fully understand---he never completed his research into THIS LIFETIME amnesia. Thus all of the millions of people who went CLEAR forgot that they are supposed to have perfect memory. This unfortunately resulted in millions of inadvertent false attests to the state of Clear.

    When Dr. Hubbard returns, he will certainly create a remedy for Clears who don't remember what superpowers they are supposed to have. I am guessing this will all be done in "20 hours or less processing", exactly the same tech estimate that was given in DMSMH for DBs like us to go Clear. I don't know what they will charge for that rundown, but whatever it is to buy it, it's going to be well worth it. I say that as a being who has personally had hundreds of hours of auditing. As you may know, Dr. Hubbard guaranteed that a person's IQ goes up one point for each hour of processing. Thus, if I purchase another 20 hours of auditing when Dr. Hubbard returns, my IQ will rise to an unprecedented highest ever of 330.

    NOTE: Even with my current IQ (374), Einstein looks like such a dope, it's really embarrassing to me as a Homo Novi that earth people talk about him like he is really smart or some junk or whatever. They should be saying all those things about Dr. Hubbard, who (having audited himself daily for 36 years) is confirmed to have an IQ of over 12,000. Do the math people!!!!

    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
  12. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Gold Meritorious Sponsor

    EXPLANATION: As a being advances to the upper echelons of the OT levels, they have less and less attention units stuck inside the MEST universe. Thus, when one sees an OT III or above stumbling, mumbling and drooling---it is scientific proof that they are leading gloriously supernatural existences on other planes and within other (non MEST) universes.

    Dr. Hubbard, for example, because so miraculously OT and "at cause over MEST" that he became unable to even drive a car. That's how few attention units he had left on our miserable MEST slave planet. Thus, it is a known scientific fact that he had to be driven around in the back of a BlueBird motorhome. Many cynics have sharply questioned why Dr. Hubbard needed to be driven around inside a BlueBird motorhome wherever he went. The answer is so obvious--he did that because it was before Uber.

    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2019
  13. phenomanon

    phenomanon Canyon

  14. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Wilbur, just because you bought into the whole sci-fi story as actual reality, doesn't mean everyone else did. Some, like you, weren't surprised. From my own observations at AOLA and from many talks with the OT-3 sup, Harold, people who thought like you were a minority, maybe 1 out of 4 or so. Everyone is different. That's why the "One Bridge for All Will Save Them, One Bridge to Set Them Free" was more an assembly line to make us all think alike than something that addresses individuals.

    L Ron Hubbard was a sci-fi writer. I didn't take most of his sci-fi comments seriously while I was in Scn because he was a fiction writer. Past lives were a possibility to me at the time and plausible. Some sci-fi was also possible, but there were so many things wrong with OT3 and it was so ridiculous and contrary to actual known facts that I was pretty pissed off when I read it. Earlier comments by others give you some of the specifics on that.

    I was also disappointed that rather than some big revelation, it was a throwback to the old, "you're all possessed by other spirits" medieval BS. The only difference was it had a poorly written sci-fi story to it blaming spirit possession on aliens. Yawn. Same ol, same ol. I was raised Catholic, hell, I had a gutty of hearing about demon possession from people looking to blame some external source for their own thoughts, lives and actions.

    Most evil can be blamed on individuals giving in to various personal indulgences and temptations and giving up their integrity for an easier, more profitable way. Other evil can be blamed on physical deformities and malfunctions. Still more evil can stem from a twisted childhood with a lousy moral compass. There may or may not be demons and evil spirits, but my view these days is they can't have any effect on me anyway if I am truly honest and live my life inside and out as sincerely as I can and try every day to be a better person. I also believe in God as a higher power than myself. That makes all the difference.

    Others here may or may not have had similar experiences reading OT3 and afterward and of course we all have different beliefs, but unless you were really sucked in all the way in Scn, OT3 was some shithouse poor fiction.
     
  15. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    I agree. From my observation the vast majority on OT 3 dutifully did the level and were happy when they finally completed it, so they could continue on to their next level.

    Because OT 3 and Xenu, etc. are so ridiculed in the media some have revised their memory of the experience.

    There are, however, some who went crazy - or became unstable - on OT 3, mostly because they found the level incomprehensible. They didn't blame Hubbard but, rather, felt there was something wrong with them.

    Some thought they were Body Thetans.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 3
    • Like Like x 2
    • List
  16. ILove2Lurk

    ILove2Lurk Lisbeth Salander

    This is very true and very wise.

    This is sorta my takeaway from my readings of the Gospel of Thomas -- the so-called "secret teachings of Jesus."

    Not that you asked . . . but my understanding of them -- in a nutshell -- is that the Kingdom of God is spread out upon
    the earth, here and now. There is a divine light (of goodness) within all people and if people heed it and live a life like
    you, Sheila, described, then they will see this Kingdom of God on earth.

    Putting it in my own simple words . . . if you live a life of goodness, decency, and honesty, your life is like living in
    a heaven right here on earth. If you go the opposite vector, your life is like living in a hell right here on earth.

    Very simple. That's MY takeaway.

    I don't go to church at all, but I do tell people I was raised in a Judaeo-Christian world and follow Christian precepts
    in my life. It just communicates quickly. I usually don't mention the Gospel of Thomas bit. Most people wouldn't
    be interested anyways.

    Not a fan of Christianity as It exists today, I've studied the history of the early centuries of Christianity, and I do
    like the Gospel of Thomas best. Something I can live with.

    But it all boils down to what you said.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
    • Like Like x 3
    • Love Love x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  17. ILove2Lurk

    ILove2Lurk Lisbeth Salander

    . . .
    I'll share something with you: the main reason I got on Solo Nots (OT7).

    I got a "lump" a long time ago. Being an obedient OT, I went through MO lines at Flag
    to get permission to have it checked out medically. Long story short, they did not send
    me to a doctor, but told me that "solo nots handles EVERYTHING" and I'm being silly.
    Just get on the level. Pronto! I did.

    My inner thinking was . . . well, if this is something serious and this is the end, I want to
    at least finish OT7 this lifetime. I left for good a few years later when GAT came out
    and I was asked to pay for all of OT7 all over again. We're done.

    The lump? Went away on it's own, thankfully. It was nothing, I guess. (I did get checked
    by a doctor after the fact. Silly me.)

    This is a pretty criminal handling of a PC, but that's how it was during the "OT7 mania"
    back then in the Flag bubble world.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 7
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • List
  18. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    When I did OT3 I was one of those who just accepted it without question.

    My mindset at that time was similar to someone playing a video game. I didn't care what I came up against on the current level so long as I could deal with it and move on to the next level. I was reaching for those superpowers that I'd read about in Dianetics and which seemed now to only be available somewhere up at the top of the Bridge. Talk about chasing rainbows!

    I never reached OT8. I was hit with having to re-do some OT auditing and re-do training for the Golden Age Of Tech and agree to a nutty ethics action. That is when I just said "fuck it" and walked out.What a glorious day that was.:buzzin:
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Thanks Thanks x 3
    • List
  19. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Veda, I did OT3 on the RPF so already had a foot out of Scn. It was the 80s, then, and David Mayo's groups were in full swing and there were regular protests outside the complex, rallies because Wollersheim was suing COS... all sorts of wild things going on shaking people up. Turbulent times.

    It could have been as many as 1 out of 2 back then who weren't surprised at OT3, but that would be about it. 1 out of 3 or 1 out of 2, but the same percent that clapped vigorously at the LRH is Dead event and cheered, believing every word about L Ron discovering music, the whole track number, the upper research, etc. The rest of us at that event just looked strangely at each other and others and weren't buying it. I was on the RPF then, too, looking around at the faces of individuals at that event. My own ex-husband was cheering like a maniac and that kind of scared and horrified me. For me, OT3 and that event were two very major wake-up calls.

    When you were in, there was the original OT levels, there was more of a grassroots organization, the SO was newer and people then were always talking up spaceships, Loyal Officers and things like that. The old man was even around more. In my time, nobody I knew had even seen L Ron since the late 70s. There were a lot of questions in people's heads.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    • List
  20. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum What a long, strange trip it's been!

    I got out after reading the OT3 "data" while I was still at the bottom of the bridge, prior to my grades and "natural clear" eval & attest.
    I believed the information for a few years, even running the incidents on perceived masses.
    I realized then that it was seemingly all bullshit and felt he had turned us all into dogs chasing our tails, so I quietly left.
    Or so I thought it was "quietly" as my friends started getting called in to determine what I had spread around regarding OT3.
    You see, they had got me to sign 3 ten thousand dollar promissory notes that would come due if I told anyone what I knew when I was training up to class IV.
    They saw a way to pocket a quick 30 grand.
    This was why I never breathed a word about any of it.
    Plus I didn't want to mess up my friends minds by perpetuating psychobabble.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • List