OT IX And X

Discussion in 'Scientology Technology' started by mockingbird, Dec 23, 2015.

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  1. CommunicatorIC

    CommunicatorIC @IndieScieNews on Twitter

  2. Jump

    Jump Operating teatime

    We might already have had the Golden Age of RPF. And the Golden Age of Disconnection - that just keeps rolling along like a broken record with really sharp edges that hurt people a lot.
     
  3. Some Random Guy

    Some Random Guy Patron with Honors

    Ja, this is the essence of scientology, its a marketing scheme with a captive market. Seeing that some people have advanced through to OT8 and still want more, why not launch OT 9 AND 10?

    As for all the objections, NAH, Tiny Fists will spin a story which will be believed. Something like that whole "All Orgs must be Old Saint Hill Size Before OT9 and OT10 can be released " was not pure LRH but some SP who got onto the comm lines to destroy scientology.

    As to the effectiveness of OT9 and OT10 levels and their stated abilities gained, well, the other levels produced shit so, why should the people worry about the results of the new levels?

    And, let us not forget the never blunt phrase: " the next level will handle that".
     
  4. Some Random Guy

    Some Random Guy Patron with Honors

     
  5. freethinker

    freethinker Crusader

    They released Superpower which is supposed to give you the ability of an OT right now.

    I always found this absurd because if you have the ability of an OT without the OT levels then why do you need to do the OT levels?

    An explanation I got for that was that you had to do your OT levels to remain OT and not sink back to mere aberated human being.

    Well, if that is the case, then do Superpower to give you the ability to get your OT levels done lickety split.

    The point here is that they are buying the Superpower bullshit so why not OT IX and X?

    A lot of these Scientologists only look at the Scientology phenomenon from what they experience and not what they think or see others can do and if they aren't able to leap tall buildings in a single bound then there is something wrong with them and not Scientology because they haven't had that magic session that clears the last shrub out of the way. It's always because of that thing, whatever it is, that keeps it just out of reach is just about to be smashed out of the way with the next session.

    They keep on believing because they have way too much invested for it not to be true. It just has to be true, because they know that everything they have read in Scientology is true, even if it doesn't always make sense or happen the way Ron said because they are just a different thetan who is resistive to auditing but that will break some day.

    For one thing, they have been lying to everyone about how well they are doing because of all they have done in Scientology. They know they have been lying and that that is possibly why it isn't happening but they're hoping that there is that one session where they can tell the truth and they break through and it becomes real.


    It never occurs to them that that session will never come because it's right around the corner as is all Scientology results.
     
  6. WildKat

    WildKat Gold Meritorious Patron

    Scientology....the religion of Total Hope and Empty Promises.
     
  7. mockingbird

    mockingbird Silver Meritorious Patron

    A lot of good points have made here on how superpower and the OT levels and even Ls have entirely failed to deliver on promised abilities. Hell, even the state of clear and all the releases have failed to actually deliver anything actually enduring. They deliver short term euphoria and the suggestion of gains with no empirical evidence.

    If Miscavige is foolish enough to try to get away with delivering some pile of garbage er I mean "advanced spiritual technology" and call it OT IX and X then he will surely lose a large percentage of his remaining staff and Sea Org members.

    His fear may be whistleblowers. Imagine if a new group of execs and staff fresh out of Scientology run into the Underground Bunker, Jon Atack and Arnie Lerma. And realize within a couple months that Scientology is, was and always will be a fraud and criminal organization.

    Some can give evidence against Miscavige in trials and to the press. Unfortunately for Miscavige eventually evidence he can't talk away may surface. Bank records. Funds used to pay for illegal activities.

    Miscavige is trying to hide criminal activities. That involves keeping as many pieces of the puzzle hidden as possible. There's no telling what details which staff can reveal. This is even compounded by the fact that Scientologists confess to each other and write up reports and O/Ws.

    A secret Miscavige thinks only one or two staff in the RPF know may have been told to an auditor or written up in a report.

    Holding onto as many staff as long as possible is important for hiding his crimes. So, if Miscavige loses a lot of people quickly it may help his enemies too much and help Scientology collapse. This is regardless of the billions he has hidden away.
     
  8. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    Maybe it was Dart Samoen, (not sure how it was spelled) or some other old timer that was saying here, they got real gains on the goals listing or some of those old sixties processes before Hubbard became invested in implant GPMS and the OT3 stuff. If I recall correctly, Hubs was jealous of the gains others were making, and put the kibosh on the delivery of those processes. Considering the feedback he was getting and the inventiveness of the original BC students - perhaps they were the ones who came up with the workable stuff. It is well known he stole word clearing, and I think he also stole correction lists, so what else did he rip off?

    For someone who was looking to smash his name in history - why didn't he make a really workable bridge?

    Mimsey
     
  9. mockingbird

    mockingbird Silver Meritorious Patron

    I think now that I have seen everything presented here some of the whales would pony up hundreds of thousands of dollars for ANYTHING labeled OT IX and X. The Nancy Cartwrights, Tom Cruises, John Travoltas and definitely Bob Duggans of the world would line up, trophies in hand, to donate a couple hundred grand to get the STATUS of being the first OT IX and X completions.

    Some of them would even donate MORE money after gaining absolutely nothing from the other OT levels. They simply cannot afford to admit being utterly wrong, completely duped and having wasted their lives.

    But after reading Eric Hoffer's book True Believer I believe this would solidify the contraction of Scientology into a cult that discourages contact with outsiders. In his writings Hoffer talks about phases cults go through. I think he has many interesting ideas.

    He describes a growing stage where mass movements take on new people and strong emphasis is placed on acquiring new members. Then over time a shift to just hanging onto the members they already have occurs.

    I think Miscavige is willing to do this, as shown by his destroying successful promotional actions like the Dianetics campaigns from Jefferson Hawkins. He also has gutted Division six in most orgs and replaced it with his videos. Which reportedly are completely worthless.

    I have also heard his commercials are entirely aimed at convincing people who are ALREADY cult members that Scientology is promoting and expanding. That's why the commercials mainly run in short campaigns in markets that already have wealthy Scientologists.

    This brings up some other interesting questions about his intentions as well.
     
  10. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    check out this promo piece from long ago, I found it here on ESMB on the Stupid Thread, but lost the original post by Gadfly.

    You talk about the confusion technique, this is a perfect example, what a mess of rhetoric.

    My oh my, how history repeats itself.

    http://www.forum.exscn.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=4259&d=1308140937
     
  11. mockingbird

    mockingbird Silver Meritorious Patron

    Gib, I looked at that attachment. It is incomprehensible gobbledygook. And I have seen materials from the OT levels it references. It certainly fits a confusion method. It has incredibly vague terms and they are grouped up so the amount of them is overwhelming.

    The victim goes from vague idea to another vague idea defined by the first idea and then another that refers back to the first two and on it goes.

    For most people the terms Scientology, auditing and clear don't have definitive, exact definitions. I covered that in my posts Propaganda By Reversal Of Meaning and The Clear Contradiction.

    Hubbard builds on those vague loaded terms with the term OT and all of the OT levels. Each is further confusion.
     
  12. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    As far as I can decipher, DM has lots of money to live the life style he wants, and he will keep it going until he dies. He's playing a game as Hubbard did and riding on Hubbards words.

    DM does not understand fully what Hubbard did thru Rhetoric,

    DM's use of video's to replace Hubbard's system of two way comm misses the mark, as Hubbard realized the power of two way comm, on a individual level, to persuade.

    DM thinks it's a PR World, which is not quite true, it can start a movement, but two way communication between people will stop it, eventually, as more people communicate freely.
     
  13. Gib

    Gib Crusader



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole

    Dean Wilbur in his book English Rhetoric, which I got a copy of, talks about hypebole and says it is ok to use hyperbole when communicating, but using it to tell the truth.

    examples of hyperbole:

    http://literarydevices.net/hyperbole/

    Hubbards use of Hyperbole:

    A clear has full memory

    OT8 = whole track recall

    A class 8 couldn't but boom an org

    The Sea Org is the Elite of the Planet

    A Grade 0 release can communicate to anybody about anything

    on, and on.......

    Hubbard realized the power of Hyperbole, ie success stories.

    The trap is set, Hubbard the con artist.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2015
  14. mockingbird

    mockingbird Silver Meritorious Patron

    Gib, I think you are far too kind to Hubbard. He didn't use hyperbole. He used outright lies. He tried to use reversals of truth to mentally enslave victims for life. He didn't state exaggerations - he used total reversals of truth to confuse, deceive and enslave people intentionally.

    He knew auditing added content hypnotically and claimed it removed it he knew a clear has added identities not a removed fictional reactive mind. He knew the victim gets buried in delusion not a perfect memory. He intended to fool us.

    I could go on with hundreds of examples I have put in previous threads. He didn't exaggerate. He lied.
     
  15. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    we are actually on the same page, just different viewpoints on how to address the con.

    Hubbard said first and foremost he was a writer.

    Dean Wilbur book on English Rhetoric is a book on how to write and express oneself, truthfully. But Hubbard didn't do this.

    Hubbard violated everything in Dean Wilburs book, as far as some truths are concerned, but exploited those truths for Hubbard's own use to smash his name into history, and create the cheese.
     
  16. mockingbird

    mockingbird Silver Meritorious Patron

    Mimsey, to address what you said several points are important. First off lots of people felt they got gains or wins from Scientology. That happens in abusive relationships. The abuser convinces you the relationship is beneficial. And Hubbard used hypnosis and rhetoric and other means of influence to convince people Scientology helped them. Hypnosis alone can create euphoric and worry free trances.

    Those can feel terrific. But they don't produce real improvements. And certainly no miracles. So Hubbard could fake a good product but he had no way to make it. We have never found any miraculous technology that I am aware of.

    Hubbard didn't make a workable technology because he couldn't. He never found anything of that nature. He stole from hundreds of plagiarized sources. I have written on that at my blog and Jon Atack and Arnie Lerma have as well. But they didn't have miracles.

    Study tech is a form of hypnotic mind control. I covered that in my post Insidious Enslavement: Study Technology and Propaganda By Reversal Of Meaning. Auditing is hypnosis. Using an E meter is Guided Image Therapy stolen from Volney Mathison.

    Auditing in book one form is abreactive therapy. Assists and many other auditing commands are old hypnotic techniques repackaged. Hubbard recommended the book Hypnotism Comes Of Age which describes Mesmer's research in enough detail to exactly describe assists.


    Hubbard always makes two alterations. First he takes failed hypnotic techniques and presents them as new, proven non-hypnotic methods. Secondly he always combines a series of interconnecting lies to make his authority elevate with every creation and entirely false ideas and terms act to hide what he is doing so your dependence on him increases.

    Many ex Scientologists spend decades confused and looking for the good parts. The trick is there are no good parts. Just ones that feel good because the hypnosis from them worked on someone to put them into a euphoric trance. But that trance comes with mental enslavement and delusion, if not worse.

    The ones that seem good are ones we don't understand.
     
  17. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation


    I disagree.

    I have rarely seen in all the years I've been on this board anyone at all "confused and looking for the good parts" or showing signs of having been in a "euphoric trance"... (presumably in many cases for decades). What I have seen are a lot of people at various stages of "deculting" who (in the main) left after deciding enough was enough and accepted that they had simply been conned by a clever dick and that they had played a part in it themselves by being gullible.

    Many of these people had known (the above) for years (according to their posts here on ESMB) but couldn't leave due to the cult glue, usually involving threat of the loss of loved ones if they did, so pretended they were still scientologists right up until they finally left and there will be hundreds more running around in sailor suits today doing just that.

    I think it's unhelpful to keep trying to make it more complicated than it actually is and I also think it makes us sound like complete tossers, I'd suggest reading more of other peoples posts or just speaking for yourself when you make statements like the one I snipped above.

    :)

    Also, if you hit the button "Reply With Quote" (bottom RHS of every post) when responding to a specific poster it will make your posts easier to understand for others.
     
  18. Irayam

    Irayam Patron with Honors

    I don't really understand why it's so difficult to release something called OT IX or OT X...
    All you have to do is to find someone who is OT VIII and make him/her paying a lot of money and then runnig something boring and/or unconfortable until all they want is to be allowed to stop the process and write a incredible success story. Really, I could write OT IX and OT X.:duh:

    Irayam
     
  19. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Gold Meritorious Sponsor

    ...


    That would be cool!

    I'd love to read it.

    And anyone else who wants to take a shot at it.

    Funny & entertaining idea!
     
  20. Helena Handbasket

    Helena Handbasket Gold Meritorious Patron

    Actually, we are all at the center of our own universes. And always have been.

    I think Freud called that wish fulfillment. You just wish for it, and if it's true for you in your own little universe that no one else can see or contact, then it's true.

    I know a group (I've been part of it, but have been inactive for a while) that gets together about once a year, and when they do, they always have good weather. Coincidence? Perhaps, perhaps not.

    If you make that the current size of AOSH UK, then if AOSH UK shrinks, then other orgs could easily be Saint Hill size.

    Helena
     

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