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Discussion in 'Staff "War Stories"' started by TheOriginalBigBlue, May 29, 2015.
Well, that was quite a stroll down some of the darker corners of memory lane...
Thank you for the reference. I am not an attorney either.
It may be difficult, but not impossible, to assign civil liability due to the unincorporated status of the Sea Org and that does seem to be the original intent, but the article you reference appears to confirm my key point:
That remedies which may not be available from the unincorporated association may still be available from the individual member by another member or non-member. In other words, the way this is set up, every individual working within the Sea Org appears to be organizationally manipulated into a position where they are particularly unprotected and liable.
Does the respective employing organization or the unincorporated association maintain adequate insurance to protect the individual member's exposure proportionate to the risk?
As I understand it, Wayne Marple left the Sea Org in 1982 and was Declared a Suppressive Person. Was he thrown under the bus because he followed orders to build up the RPF and became a legal liability? According to Jesse Prince, Wayne summarily had him locked up by 5 men where he was kept for 3 months before being released just to join the rest of the RPF. I have to think that with up to 200 potential cased for something like false imprisonment and abuse, LRH or somebody would do the math.
The church seemed to identify this issue with the IRS when they sued many individual employees to push for Charitable Tax Exempt Status. It was a monolithic agency that was difficult to sue but the individual membership was its vulnerable spot. What if every individual Sea Org member who contributed to the creation of The Hole and related abuses was individually sued?
"Whats good for the goose is good for the gander".
In Jeffrey Augustine's article he compares the Sea Org to a mafia. But when the mafia gets old and starts to lose its teeth you can pick off the lieutenants as more people are willing to testify and leak information. Those lieutenants should be quietly assembling their versions of mafia insurance policies and downloading them off-site before they to get tossed under the bus by The Don.
I was assigned to the RPF twice, the first around 1979 (by Jane Kember), the second in late 1995 by "proper" Comm Ev. By proper I mean the outward appearance of justice was there, not that it wasn't the usual travesty.
The second time I was asked by the MAA (Astra Woodcraft) to sign a form saying I was going of my own choosing to redeem blah blah blah. When I replied (to her great surprise) no thanks I'll route out, this was accepted as my choice in the matter and acted on accordingly. There was no physical coercion to drag me off. A couple of people tried to talk me out of it, but not very earnestly. At the time I thought they didn't think I was worth hanging onto, but maybe they actually wanted to leave themselves!
I don't think I signed anything the first time, but I didn't protest the assignment. I thought phew, at least now I can get some sleep.
Anyway, my point is that in 1995 I wasn't consigned into the RPF against my will. As it happened, a month later I decided to try out the RPF and ended up leaving several months later, but it was still my choice.
I don't see why anyone couldn't be sued.....civilly, if they harmed someone else.... (such as your "Hole" example above...)
What interests me are Legal maneuvers such as suing any Sea Org member....and there by suing the entire Sea Org Fraternal Organization. They are an "Association."
This article seems to emphasize the limits of legal liability to the unincorporated association for negligence. For sake of this topic I think we can make a distinction between things like negligence, and errors & omissions, etc. vs criminal behavior.
If Sea Org members are put in situations where they commit crimes or even appear to commit crimes or cause injury or loss then they can be charged as individuals. If you are going to order a bunch of men to lock someone in a room for months at a time or you are one of those men doing the locking, etc. then you can be charged - period. The nebulous organizational form of the Sea Org will not protect you. "Just following orders" will not protect you. It is all designed to protect LRH. I think that is the point.
From what I understand of The Hole, in principle, everyone on that compound who allegedly knew that someone was being restrained or tormented against their will could feasibly be individually charged. They might be innocent or negligent or whatever, but they could still be charged. Being an unincorporated corporation might be adequate for a slip and fall but in my opinion, anytime someone is assigned to the RPF the church is exposing its members to litigation.
This isn't the 1960s anymore. The PR fallout is impossible to contain and the lawsuit payouts can be in the 10s or hundreds of millions.
1979 - Jane must have sent you to the RPF as she was going out the door.
I think the church is playing legal Russian Roulette with the RPF program at this point. Even if a person signs a waiver, that doesn't constitute a right to violate the law. And whatever is agreed to, is what should be done.
1977 and on orders of Hubbard? Of course I believe this at face value. 1977. Besides, a dirty needle is not a R/S, but in this case, a dirty needle is not that far from a R/S. What kind of needle did Hubbard and Capt. Bill had when they devised the plan (if they did)?
(I've chopped most of the quote off to save cyber trees).
PO3 Phil Stannard
Was he British, hilariously funny, very human and with one leg? If it's that Phil Stannard who was London Day HAS course sup and joined the SO, was on the RPF in the UK and became CO Estates afterwards, I'm afraid he died a few years back, a lovely guy. Phil played a mean guitar and had played with some very big named acts. He had a big personality.
Yes, I remember Phil with great affection too, La La. RIP
After big blue was bought & needed renos the RPF became the largest org in PAC.
After the FH was purchased & needed renos the RPF became the largest org at FLB.
When the renos were done some reason was found to get people - in droves - off the RPF.
What a coincident, huh ?