Petition to Investigate Scientologies Tax Exempt Status

Discussion in 'Breaking and Major News about Scientology' started by Tilly, Oct 24, 2017.

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  1. Tilly

    Tilly Patron

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  2. Lone Star

    Lone Star Crusader

    There's more of a chance that OT 9 and 10 actually do exist than there is of the IRS being coaxed into investigating the tax exempt status due to a petition drive.

    IRS don't roll that way. :no:
  3. Tilly

    Tilly Patron

    How would IRS come to the conclusion that the Co$ needs to be investigated?
  4. Tilly

    Tilly Patron

    Mr. Augustine is not an ignorant man. He must believe there is some benefit to doing this.
  5. Lone Star

    Lone Star Crusader

    Let's pray it'll happen.
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  6. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    I think the IRS and the commissioner have become self serving, corrupt and politicized. That means in order to influence them it will probably have to be the legislature who will have to be compelled by public opinion to address the kinds of issues that Bryan Seymour has been successful with in Australia. We need to redefine the conditions for granting and maintaining charitable tax exempt status. As Mike Rinder points out, now is the time. Many developments over time have cumulated to create a wave of public outcry against the abuses of Scientology and these people also need to be educated that this is a problem that traces back to congress and the president who appoints the IRS commissioner.
  7. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Koskinen’s term ends November 13th. If I were running Scientology I would be madly trying to get people close to Trump in order to try to to influence the replacement selection process in a way that would be favorable to preserving the tax exempt status. This could be as simple as having prominent Scientologists showing support and love bombing the pres.

    I’d expect Trump to appoint someone who was more favorable to religions in general. Also, the Tea Party movement was primarily a rebellion against the nationalization of health care under the ACA, the massive increase in the national debt, excessive taxation and regulation, and illegal immigration - all things that Trump emphatically campaigned on. So I’d expect the new commissioner to not continue the kind of bias exerted against organizations with those goals that existed under Koskinen and his predecessor.

    My guess is politically Scientology would be against any tightening of immigration policy legal or illegal, against anything that increases the efficiency or power of the IRS or government in general, against any healthcare regulations that force it to provide services or spend money on staff. I don't think they care about things like the national debt as long as they don't have to pay for it. From a Scientological perspective, things that make society more dysfunctional create a public with more personal problems for which only Scientology has the solutions and this supports their end of days spiel. There are points where Scientology organizationally or according to it's doctrine would politically coincide with Trump values or be against them and the organization's interests and the "stated" doctrine are not necessarily the same.

    Unfortunately, Scientology may indirectly benefit from a generally more favorable treatment of religious organizations. However, with the 20 trillion national debt, the IRS will also probably be looking for places where tax policy needs reform and giving tax exempt status to organizations that abuse their tax exempt status could be ripe for such an effort.

    I don’t think I’m going to get my hopes up but at least now there is a chance that something can change.

    President Donald Trump announced Thursday his intention to designate Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Tax Policy David Kautter as acting commissioner of the Internal Revenue Service.
    Kautter formerly worked for the accounting firms RSM US and Ernst & Young and was confirmed for his position at the Treasury Department in August (see RSM’s Kautter confirmed in Treasury tax post). He will succeed John Koskinen when Koskinen’s term ends next month. The designation will take effect on November 13.
  8. Tilly

    Tilly Patron

    If it were only possible for the key people that can take exempt status away from the Co$ to be able to watch the last episode of Leah and Mike's that came on Tuesday night (24th), "Aftermath The Business of Religion Special: The Aftermath." It proves they operate as a business.
  9. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    You're correct Tilly on both counts. He is not ignorant. And yes, there is some benefit or he would not have wasted his time.

    Petitions by themselves generally don't get government officials to act, but they can be an important part of a larger campaign, increasing awareness amongst the general public, and if done in conjunction with some other actions, can help apply pressure to those individuals within government to do the right thing.

    I've been part of organizations which have used them effectively to influence politicians and even get certain legislation passed in the State of Connecticut.

    For a number of reasons, a government official may fail to act to do the right thing. The reason may include conflicts of interest, many other important issues competing for his time, or other reasons. If one has contacted an official and made him aware of the situation yet he is disinterested there are ways to apply some pressure and increase his interest level. The best way is to make a decent percentage of his constituents aware of the issue and become activists, and do this in conjunction with a media campaign.

    For government officials, their motivation to do the right thing tends to increase to the extent that there is more media coverage of the issue, and even better when their action (or inaction) on an issue may influence voters in the next election.
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  10. Tilly

    Tilly Patron

    I love your little squirrel avatar!:)
  11. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    Thank-you Tilly!

    My avatar is a picture of Sugarbush, a really live Eastern Grey squirrel who lives here in Florida, rescued as a baby, and now an international superstar:

    She is not at all a fan of Scientology.

    By the way, if anyone is going to be going door-to-door in Clearwater on Halloween trick-or-treating, here is a possible costume that would be scary to some:

    Last edited: Oct 26, 2017
  12. Lone Star

    Lone Star Crusader

    Yes petitions can occasionally lead to an elected politician doing something the petitioners want. IRS is a whole nuther ball of wax. They are not elected and not accountable to you or me. The petition effort would probably have more of a chance if it were addressed directly toward the sitting President because the IRS commissioner is appointed by the President.

    The commissioner himself will not give even one fuck about this petition. Why should he? He doesn't need anyone who has signed the petition to vote for him. He doesn't give a damn if you or I don't like him or his job performance. He's going to serve until either the next President is sworn in, or until he gets a better job offer somewhere else.

    But a President ordering him to open up an investigation due to public uproar is far more likely to have an impact than petitioning the IRS directly.

    I just noticed that the bottom of the petition says "You don't have to be a US citizen to sign the petition". That may be true, but it is also another reason with the IRS will not give a damn about this.

    Sorry. Reality is just real.
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  13. Miss Ellie

    Miss Ellie Patron with Honors

    The tax exempt angel will not fly.... the thing called "constitution" will have IRS peeing in their pants. That little freedom of religion thing...

    Foreign Workers
    Human Trafficking
    Kidnapping (holding against will)
    Organized Crime (they are organized)
    False Advertisement/Misrepresentation
    Fill In The Bank.... _________________

    These are a few of the favorite things that will bring them down... some day... some way.

    Skip the tax exempt... that is a long shot... go for the sure things... They will screw up sooner or later... to many people are watching and waiting for them to.

  14. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    No doubt you are correct in that the IRS Commissioner won't give a fuck about the petition, if the only action taken by those wishing for him to act is to circulate a petition. Which is why I wrote (in the post of mine you quoted):
    "Petitions by themselves generally don't get government officials to act, but they can be an important part of a larger campaign, increasing awareness amongst the general public, and if done in conjunction with some other actions, can help apply pressure to those individuals within government to do the right thing."

    Your assertion that the IRS is not accountable to you or me (because they are not elected officials) is not entirely true. The Commissioner and other officials within the IRS certainly can be held accountable in various ways, through the legal arena as well as via Congressional action. Here's a link to an article from last year where the House was considering an Impeachment of the IRS Commissioner:

    Here's additional information directly from the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee:
  15. Tilly

    Tilly Patron

    If you add to the mix the fact that LR showed clear signs of psychosis long before the 80's, he was given to whining that the burden of everything was on him just the same as Leah said DM had told her that all he did was hunt out subversive people in $cn. Clearly I think that DM is showing cracks too. This is a good video of Gerry Armstrong that was LR's assistant. He joined $cn in 1971 and left in 1981 and he sasy he sees the same personality in DM that he did in LR.

  16. Lone Star

    Lone Star Crusader

    Well of course any IRS Commissioner is accountable to us via Congress if he or she engages in any wrong doing. I'm talking about not being accountable in the same way an elected official is in terms of petitions, phone calls to office, etc...

    Now I've had just about enough of this disagreement with me, so I'm afraid that I'm a gonna have to take this up another notch....


    Sorry....sometimes ya just hafta play by the rules of the desert. :bwahaha:
  17. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    I'm inclined to agree with all of this but the petition also brings the issue of how this bureaucratic position is enabling this kind of abuse to the general public and that is where the change needs to start. The whole country is starting to understand what the "Administrative State" is and this kind of authority is a huge part of that problem.

    The commissioner post term is 5 years. The new commissioner's term starts November 13th so this petition would not have influenced the outgoing commissioner but it will have a chance to effect the new commissioner during the entirety of his term. A petition to try to influence the president's appointment would either have to have been effective by the 13th or not for another 5 years.
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2017
  18. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Silver Meritorious Patron

    Ironically, the best thing that could happen to Co$ would be to lose it's tax exemption. Since donations are deductible they can rake in the donos. The biggest thing that made CoS so much better back in the day was they had to produce viable marketable products to produce income as they had lost the exemption in the 60's
  19. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    The thing that made it so much better back in the day is the mission network hadn't been decimated and there were still enclaves where it could be a light fun relatively inexpensive group activity and if the main orgs got too heavy handed they couldn't compete - all this regardless of whether the Tech actually worked or delivered what was promised. If they stopped the push for donations it is inconceivable to me that it would revert back to anything remotely like that.

    The only reason there was a period like that is LRH only tolerated it until he could consolidate his power under the Sea Org's iron fist and impose heavy ethics. What we see today is the fulfillment of LRH's vision. This is what it was always intended to be.
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  20. Tilly

    Tilly Patron

    Just looked at the petition and it is over 14,000.