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Robert Dam on Marty Rathbun

loose cannon

Patron with Honors
The following is what Robert Dam, a Danish ex-scientologists, wrote about his meeting with Marty while still being in the Church, but already in disgrace, having been chosen as a scapegoat.


I wonder if Marty has really changed his modus operandi ever since:

I was ordered to go to Flag (mother Church in Florida) to see the RTC General Inspector, Marty Rathbun (picture) sometimes called Mark Rathbun (it's the same person). He is the second top officer in RTC and Scientology only outranked by David Miscavige. I must have been considered a very serious threat, since he would be bothered to deal with me directly.


2nd January 1997 I sat on a plane to Tampa, Florida. Arriving at Flag I first meet with John Stompke, IG MAA, RTC and later I met with Marty Rathbun. I don't remember which sequence, but they both sec-checked me trying to get me to confess the same crimes I hadn't done, which I refused. Rathbun got upset with me and said that my future as a spiritual being was at stake and that I'd better come straight. I was in a state of confusion as I did not know what to do. I would never ever admit to crimes I hadn't done, yet I was under the clear impression that if I didn't, I would not be allowed back on the Bridge (couldn't continue my progress).


Before going to Flag I had written a very detailed Knowledge Report on the whole scene . I had been very careful not to write in an emotional way, but to state only the facts on what actually had happened. It was quite detailed with dates, names etc. (unfortunately I lost the report when my old computer crashed down, otherwise it would have been attached here). I asked Marty Rathbun if he had red my Knowledge Report and he answered "Yes, I red your report and it is just natter". This hit me hard, as the report was specific and detailed and exposed huge out points and off-policy on behalf of the involved staff members. It did not have any snide remarks, HE&R or natter.


--Robert Dam on Scientology
 
The following is what Robert Dam, a Danish ex-scientologists, wrote about his meeting with Marty while still being in the Church, but already in disgrace, having been chosen as a scapegoat.


I wonder if Marty has really changed his modus operandi ever since:

It is precisely MR's past actions of this kind and his failure to acknowledge the damage to many for which he is personally responsible which constitute the primary reasons to question his 'supposed change of heart' and current 'reformed' status.


Mark A. Baker
 

Vittorio

Patron Meritorious
This is from 1996 and Michael Pattinson's dealing's with Rathbun;

Then, however, things went extremely wrong, as suddenly I was directed to go to see a person (a very senior "Security Officer" from the Religious Technology Centre called Mr. Marty Rathbun). I was escorted into a tiny room behind the Fort Harrison elevators area where The Religious Technology Centre has an office. I was sat down with Mr Rathbun between me and the door. He instructed me to pick up the E-Meter electrodes and to answer his questions. It was not a counselling session, but a "security interview" with no obvious rules of conduct except that I had to answer his questions fully, and that if I didn't do so he would know because of what was occurring on the E-Meter. What then occurred, in this interrogation and another shortly thereafter was the greatest shock of my life.

To give a brief description, Mr Rathbun questioned me about my religious beliefs very intensely. He had heard from Danny that I had become interested in a religious kind of activity (a Christian-related spiritual activity designed to show me more clearly who "I am"... remember the OT8 result?) and that I was enjoying it so much that I was speaking to my friends about it, and some of them were becoming interested in reading about it. They loved it! I had even gotten a few copies of its literature into a local (non-C. of S.)
bookstore.

According to Mr, Rathbun, however, I was committing a rather big crime of some kind by speaking about my religious beliefs or faith to other Scientologists. I was not, in fact, proselytizing as I was not trying to take anyone out of Scientology.

I was given to understand, indirectly but always in the same tone and direction of attention, that if I ever wanted to continue my route in Scientology, I would have to not only stop speaking about my chosen faith, but also that it would be necessary for me to give up that faith forever. I asked at least five times for the Hubbard reference which might dictate that, but Mr Rathbun would never answer the question directly. He would only hedge around it and make me feel "stupid" for not immediately complying to his own point of view. In the end I had him describe what his viewpoint was that I was supposed to be so obediently complying with. He showed me the Hubbard reference "Keeping Scientology Working". There is a point there where ten actions are dictated to keep Scientology working. One of them is; "Getting the correct technology applied consists of .. hammering out of existence incorrect technology".

This was the only major reference he was working on to get me to give up my chosen faith. I pursued the matter with him, as I could not believe what he was intending. He certainly intended for me to give up my religious beliefs in order to continue in Scientology (RTC holds the clearances for those wanting to do further services, and can block anyone's progress at will). He intended to stop anyone else reading about the things I had read about. This was evidenced by the fact that, in the days following these "interviews" two personal visits from RTC and one from the C. of S "Special Affairs Office" bullied the local bookstore owner (Mr Virgil Wilhite) to stop carrying the books I had requested. He did not want to stop carrying them, as they are from a bona fide religious activity recognized by the U.S. Congress. However, enough pressure was brought to bear to intimidate him into sending the books back to the supplier. This was a direct attack by both the C. of S. and the. Religious Technology Centre on another U.S. religion. These days they use "religious intolerance" as a slander of others while they are the ones most guilty of it.

In the "interviews" I pressed the point of having religious freedom as a Scientologist (both from Hubbard's writings and from the 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution) but Mr. Rathbun would have nothing of it. I asked him specifically whether the Shinto religion people (who had recently visited Flag as a group) would also have to give up their faith before RTC would allow them to continue in Scientology at some point. His response was that "it is not yet a problem" (or a question to be resolved), but his answer was that, indeed, anyone wanting to continue in Scientology would, at some point, to satisfy RTC on the point of "incorrect technology" have to abandon their religious faith and practice.

Taken from here: http://www.xenu-directory.net/accounts/pattinson200308-11.html

He's trying to tell us that it's all David Miscavige, maybe in some twisted way he thinks he was helping these people. I can tell you one thing for sure, he won't be getting me in session!
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Rathbun does appear to have changed his mind about "other practices" if you can believe his Blog writings. Maybe he's changed his mind about many things in the years since these things occurred? I know I have.
 

Petey C

Silver Meritorious Patron
The stuff about Marty aside, what strikes me as having thoroughly wogified myself, is that public scientologists are "ordered" to go to Flag for ethics or interrogation or whatever, and -- I can barely believe this -- they go! And presumably at their own cost too. What other religion would do that? Or what other organisation of any sort would? And what sort of believer would just drop everything and comply?

Out here in the good ole wog world, if you apply for a job in a different location and get an interview, the company generally pays for your expenses to just attend the interview. (At least for some sorts of skilled jobs.)
 

Veda

Sponsor
Rathbun does appear to have changed his mind about "other practices" if you can believe his Blog writings. Maybe he's changed his mind about many things in the years since these things occurred? I know I have.

He's becoming one mellow dude.

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2011/09/03/germany-europe-and-human-rights/

Germany, Europe and Human Rights
Posted on September 3, 2011 by martyrathbun

...there are OSA operatives throughout the Anonymous network, ESMB site, the Freezone and Independents running backstabbing, covert propaganda campaigns while we are “tied up” under siege. Just look for the 1.1s using the safe Independent Scientology space we are creating to promote such practices as no-training-needed to get onto OT levels, “OT I and OT II are of little importance”: especially coming from “Class VIIIs”,”Class VIs” and folks claiming to be “trained by Ron.” They may as well be saying “Scientology is a fraud, because after all I studied it all, and violently disagree with the Bridge created by Ron."
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Yep, definitely. I'm sure I saw him pushing/speaking kindly of "other practices" on his Blog somewhere though. I was speaking of that.
 
Marty had no choice back then because he was merely Miscavige's Coffee Bitch, he had to toe the line, and Marty has no choice now because he's trying to build his own cult. You can't expect someone who's trying to turn Hubbard's Mind Fuck into a vocation to act any different, can you?
 

apocalyptic

Patron with Honors
Rathbun does appear to have changed his mind about "other practices" if you can believe his Blog writings. Maybe he's changed his mind about many things in the years since these things occurred? I know I have.

Perhaps a change of mind in the absence of a change of heart is the hidden substance of self delusion?

And Marty is simply a living manifestation, of just such a self delusion as that. (though hidden from his very own self point of view)

Stranger realities do exist. when dealing with the human mind of being.

Apoc
 

lynnie

Patron
"If anyone wants a monopoly on dianetics, be assured that he wants it for reasons which have to do not with dianetics but with profit." LRH, 1950, Astounding Science Fiction
 

apocalyptic

Patron with Honors
Yep, definitely. I'm sure I saw him pushing/speaking kindly of "other practices" on his Blog somewhere though. I was speaking of that.

Speaking 'kindly' of a thing and speaking 'honestly' of a thing are not the same thing at all.

And the 'Acceptable-Truth-Doctrine' (of scientology), demands that this is so.

Apoc

back to the drawing room, for you (for a re-do in scientology ethics)
 

Jachs

Gold Meritorious Patron
He's becoming one mellow dude.

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/201...-human-rights/

Germany, Europe and Human Rights
Posted on September 3, 2011 by martyrathbun

...there are OSA operatives throughout the Anonymous network, ESMB site, the Freezone and Independents running backstabbing, covert propaganda campaigns while we are “tied up” under siege. Just look for the 1.1s using the safe Independent Scientology space we are creating to promote such practices as no-training-needed to get onto OT levels, “OT I and OT II are of little importance”: especially coming from “Class VIIIs”,”Class VIs” and folks claiming to be “trained by Ron.” They may as well be saying “Scientology is a fraud, because after all I studied it all, and violently disagree with the Bridge created by Ron."

reads like "second coming" of Hubbard.

Our Mark "Marty" Rathbun's Place has not been discovered by a group.
True, if the group had not supported me in many ways I could not have discovered it either. But it remains that if in its formative stages it was not discovered by a group, then group efforts, one can safely assume, will not add to it or successfully alter it in the future. I can only say this now that it is done.

The contributions that were worthwhile in this period of forming the Shack & the blog were help in the form of friendship, of defense, of organization, of dissemination, of application, of advices on results and of finance. These were great contributions and were and are appreciated. Many thousands contributed in this way and made us what we are. Discovery contribution was not however part of the broad picture.

We will not speculate here on why this was so or how I came to rise above the internet. We are dealing only in facts and the above is a fact—the group left to its own devices would not have evolved Martys blog but with wild dramatizations of the bank called “new ideas” would have wiped it out. Supporting this is the fact that man has never before evolved workable blogology and emphasizing it is the vicious contact-ology he did evolve—ESMB, OCMB, Anonymous, CAN, Lermanet, Whyweprotest, etc., ad infinitum.

So realize that we have climbed out of the mud by whatever good luck and good sense, and refuse to sink back into it again.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Yep, definitely. I'm sure I saw him pushing/speaking kindly of "other practices" on his Blog somewhere though. I was speaking of that.

You mean the Hatha Yoga guy? Even Scientology Inc. has featured a Buddhist monk in its promo. Of course, each thinks Scientology is greatest thing since canned chicken soup.

Just about anyone wants Marty&Mike and the merry crew of Hubbard fans to evolve beyond Scientology, but they're on the slow train out of the tunnel. Real slow.
 
Rathbun does appear to have changed his mind about "other practices" if you can believe his Blog writings. Maybe he's changed his mind about many things in the years since these things occurred? I know I have.


http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2011/09/03/germany-europe-and-human-rights/

... Just look for the 1.1s using the safe Independent Scientology space we are creating...


This statement reflects complete and utter chutzpah on his part. Rathbun is personally responsible for destroying many independents who had sought to offer scientology services in genuinely safe environments, not the sort of 'cult-lite' he offers. Now he claims to be the ONE responsible for creating a safe space for the expansion of independents. :eyeroll:

There is nothing 'new' here, of course. But the incredibly self-serving arrogance of his remarks deserve to be singled out for public notice. :yes:

It's the stuff like this that really underscores the importance of continuing to question MR's intentions. He clearly shows ample evidence of remaining the same self-centered b@stard he proved to be in the church. There is no reason to consider his supposedly 'reformed nature' serves any purpose apart from furthering his own self-promotion.

Caveat emptor.


Mark A. Baker
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
No arguments here, Mark.

My statement was simply something I considered in relation to Michael's or Robert's experience of the 1996/97 version of Rathbun. I'm betting Rathbun has changed since that time... who hasn't?

(Of course, I don't expect too much of these guys. They are still True Believers, after all.)
 
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loose cannon

Patron with Honors
Rathbun does appear to have changed his mind about "other practices" if you can believe his Blog writings. Maybe he's changed his mind about many things in the years since these things occurred? I know I have.
Well I admit there seems to be a little change in that direction. He now reads many sources.

But I bet that things like Idenics, Metapsychology or CBR stuff drive him mad.
 

Vittorio

Patron Meritorious
Rathbun does appear to have changed his mind about "other practices" if you can believe his Blog writings. Maybe he's changed his mind about many things in the years since these things occurred? I know I have.

In one of his Youtube videos he is recommending a book called 'The Shack' which he feels verifies some of his Scientology beliefs. It may some sort of comparitive value for Marty after leaving Scientology. He has also mentioned psychology on his page and there was a book in particular, but as he posts so much I do not wish to trawl through the blog. Paul dissected it here on ESMB; it was something to do with sociopaths.

The stuff about Marty aside, what strikes me as having thoroughly wogified myself, is that public scientologists are "ordered" to go to Flag for ethics or interrogation or whatever, and -- I can barely believe this -- they go! And presumably at their own cost too. What other religion would do that? Or what other organisation of any sort would? And what sort of believer would just drop everything and comply?

Out here in the good ole wog world, if you apply for a job in a different location and get an interview, the company generally pays for your expenses to just attend the interview. (At least for some sorts of skilled jobs.)

Yes, they believe it is the mecca of technical perfection. The cost of auditing there is double of what one would pay in the local Org.

He's becoming one mellow dude.

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2011/09/03/germany-europe-and-human-rights/

Germany, Europe and Human Rights
Posted on September 3, 2011 by martyrathbun

...there are OSA operatives throughout the Anonymous network, ESMB site, the Freezone and Independents running backstabbing, covert propaganda campaigns while we are “tied up” under siege. Just look for the 1.1s using the safe Independent Scientology space we are creating to promote such practices as no-training-needed to get onto OT levels, “OT I and OT II are of little importance”: especially coming from “Class VIIIs”,”Class VIs” and folks claiming to be “trained by Ron.” They may as well be saying “Scientology is a fraud, because after all I studied it all, and violently disagree with the Bridge created by Ron."

There probably are OSA operatives throughout the network but they are not the people he are speaking of. The people Marty is referring to are some of those severely harmed by their involvement in Scientology, who feel betrayal and who invested years of their time and money on Scientology and had no justice when they wrote uplines to Int management to complain.

Marty had no choice back then because he was merely Miscavige's Coffee Bitch, he had to toe the line, and Marty has no choice now because he's trying to build his own cult. You can't expect someone who's trying to turn Hubbard's Mind Fuck into a vocation to act any different, can you?

Had every choice. He knew where the door was. He blew more than once.
 

Vittorio

Patron Meritorious
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2011/09/03/germany-europe-and-human-rights/




This statement reflects complete and utter chutzpah on his part. Rathbun is personally responsible for destroying many independents who had sought to offer scientology services in genuinely safe environments, not the sort of 'cult-lite' he offers. Now he claims to be the ONE responsible for creating a safe space for the expansion of independents. :eyeroll:

There is nothing 'new' here, of course. But the incredibly self-serving arrogance of his remarks deserve to be singled out for public notice. :yes:

It's the stuff like this that really underscores the importance of continuing to question MR's intentions. He clearly shows ample evidence of remaining the same self-centered b@stard he proved to be in the church. There is no reason to consider his supposedly 'reformed nature' serves any purpose apart from furthering his own self-promotion.

Caveat emptor.


Mark A. Baker

He thought David Miscavige was worth hitting people for. He actually believed that he was worth lying for, that he was that important. He has obviously changed Panda Termit as he has walked, but he is practising the same mental attitude and dressing it in a different attire.

Marty Rathbun and Lisa McPherson;

"Rathbun concluded the notes had to go. 'I said, "Lose ’em" and walked out of the room,' he recalled, adding that the decision to destroy the records was his own." (St. Petersburg Times, June 22, 2009)

Marty Rathbun and Bud Fields;

"I was also interviewed this past week by Detective Dennis Angelo of the Clearwater Police Department. They were investigating the murder of Bud Fields, who was the boat broker handling the sale of the cruise ship La Boheme, which later became the Freewinds. His body was found floating in the water off Longboat Key just a short time before the Freewinds was acquired. He did not wish to do business with Scientology, but not because he was highly principled, he was receiving unscheduled commissions (kickbacks) from another company (a steamship line) also interested in the ship." http://www.whyaretheydead.net/misc/Factnet/EC.TXT

"A Florida boat broker Bud Fields' home was infiltrated by Bonny Mott, whose real name is Yvonne Shirley Mott. Her post was the Authorization & Verification Officer for the Commodore's Messenger Organization (CMO). Bonny Mott infiltrated the Bud and Lee Fields' Longboat Key, Florida home as a governess. She was ordered by Marty Rathbun, one of the heads of the Scientology Intelligence Agency OSA, to murder Bud Fields because he wouldn't sell this boat (La Boheme) to Scientology that Miscavige wanted. After Fields was murdered, the boat was bought by Scientology within one week and was renamed the Freewinds, where New OT VIII and other upper level courses are now delivered." http://www.uncletaz.com/backyard/entheta/scientkills.html

Find here pictures and further information on La Boheme

Bud Fields was killed and the ship was bought by the Church of Scientology and renamed Freewinds. But the ship turned out to be a floating health hazard. A deadly health hazard.
 
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