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Discussion in 'Stories From Inside Scientology' started by imnotafraidanymore, Mar 30, 2010.
:/ (Sorry about that.)
Here's another Dame Edna, with KD Lang.
Thanks, the DH one was linked in:
Although, after all these years, the format is getting stale. I'ld like to see a return of the "combusting chops and sausages".
Im not afraid anymore, is Fiona Peechy at FLAG here in FL?
If I recall correctly, Science of Survival was written in 1951, in Havana, Cuba. LRH was there with his (since disowned) daughter Alexis, by his 2nd wife Sara (who he later described as a communist), and Richard DeMille. It was this book, that laid out the tone scale, and pegged Homosexuality as "1.1", and which largely feeds the Homophobia of the current church entity.
Hubbard lost the copyrights to Dianetics during that time (and the first run of Science of Survival was only about 1200 copies), so being the creative chap that he was, he picked up on the e-meter from a chiropracter in California (Volney Mathison) and quickly started his Whole Track research and formulation of Axioms resulting in the subject of Scientology. One of the "discoveries" of Scientology at this time (touched upon in the book History of Man) was that Man was a composite being, consisting of no less than 7 entities, and potentially many, many more. (This pre-dates the OT III BT\Cluster phenomenon by 15 years.) The exact nature and characteristics of these "theta bodies", "idle spirits", etc was discussed in great detail in a series of lectures which can be found as the "Milestone One" lectures. Interestingly (as a side note) one lecture in that series was removed from the Pubs Org catalog at the time NOTs was released, and is not acknowledged by the current regime as ever existing. Anyway, back to the main point: in March of 1952, LRH had this to say about Homosexuality:
Back in my day, a person's sexual orientation was not used to judge or denigrate. It was not even really addressed as an "issue" unless the person themself asked for it to be addressed, It does appear that homophobia has now been institutionalized into an irrational response. I only mention the above, as I have not seen it mentioned in the "Hubbard on Homosexuality" data store.
I am happy to see you speaking out IANAA.
Div6, very interesting. So in dianetics homosexuality was caused by extreme engrams, attempted abortions and the woman screaming you are a fag! then a couple of years later he realised that all you have to do is to audit the BT that thinks it's in charge then tell her to sod off and the guy suddenly gets turned on by Marilyn Munroe. (But anyway since when does a thetan have gender?) Yet somehow he failed to cure his own son, and a lengthy list of other failed cases on the subject. No wonder he didn't like gays.
At the same time he was working on this 'problem' the psychiatrists were playing around with aversion therapy (engramatic in itself) and various other cures. Eventually they came to the conclusion that gender and sexuality varied, get over it.
Perhaps it's time that cults and religions came to the same conclusion.
An embryo in the early stages is not neutral, but female, hormones then are released that make it more male or more female. However it is common for some attributes of both genders to present in one person. All healthy humans produce and need both testosterone and Oestrogen.
Absolute male or absolute female just doesn't exist. There are beautiful delicate female models, that climbed trees as a kid and loved to shoot rats, and footballers with wide shoulders that love to sew for their boyfriends. So what?
Based on my own experience, I would disagree with hubtard.
Of course, I had already picked up anti-straight experiences along the way. I was only about six years old, and this girl who lived across the street was trying to get me to kis her "down there". At that age, that thing only performed one function, the necessity to sit on the loo when peeing, and I wasn't going anyhwere near it. I later learned that the three girls in that house we being done over by their "step-father".
At about 14 or 15 (way below the age of consent in those days), A slimy character attempted to seduce me (convinced by someone else that I was part of the local hidden gay scene) and I was somewhat traumatized by the whole thing further reinforcing my anti-gay dogma.
So I was experiencially turned away from the female pudenda, and my anti-gay dogma programming made sure that I felt dirty and degraded even although nothing had actually happened.
I was pretty much ostracised by students because of this "common knowledge" that I was gay which was very hurtful, because having been raised JW, even self-relief was an abominable act.
Later, at about twenty-four I fell under the spell of a young (not so) lady, who turned out to be someone who collected notches on her belt, so I didn't lose my virginity. It was stolen!
I later tried another straight relationship, but couldn't keep up with this nympho, so the relationship dissolved, but intelligently we continued to live in the same house without fuss.
Because I never learned all the right signals and the right things to say, even my gay encounters have been rather incomplete, but I have no desire to revisit that piece of stale liver cut in half with a blunt ax.
There are only two things in this world that smell like fish. One of them is fish.
Royal Prince, don't worry, keep practising, you'll get there in the end.
What you need is a loving relationship with someone you feel really relaxed with. Don't feel pressurised into the 'normal' gay casual sex thing if it's not your thing. The relationship is more important than the act. Endless hours of humping and grunting a day can be fun, but the excitement soon wears off and in the end it's the love and hugs that count. One nights stands just do not satisfy long term.
Porn doesn't help, sex can actually be fun and not arrogant and cold. Try not to shout ''take this be-atch!''
There really is a difference between love making and lust relieving.
In the net there's so much money to be made by the gay porn industry, it just concentrates on the wrong part of things. There's nothing wrong with the icing on a cake, but if you don't have the main course too and then the cake along with the icing...well you'll probably get sick.
There's very few role models for happy gay people in the media, but there's plenty of couples I know that have been together for decades.
I loved the rancid liver slit with an axe thing!
I laughed my tits off!
It saddens me to think that the "best" sex was that first fictitious relationship because I believed it to be the real thing. When I look at it as a purely physical thing, it was pretty mundane, but because I had made an emotional investment it seemed "better".
Not mine, sorry. I stole it from a magazine. You do have to admit that the male equivalent ain't all that pretty either, giving a much more accurate meaning to the expression, "bump uglies".
You need to note that they person in question here is a pedophile. They are not necessarily "gay".
Let me put it another way. You can be heterosexual, bisexual, gay or celibate. That is simply a sexual preference.
A pedophile is a different animal. This is, for want of a better word, bordering on sociopathy.
When I had the opportunity to confront him at a later date, he swore blind to me that he been told that I was an active member of the local "gay underground". He claimed that he had "torn strips off" the informant, but would not disclose to me who that was.
I had said, "I can't do this."
He replied, "You don't have to worry about your mother finding out." This indicated that he had been exposed to information about my muthur's JW-rule-the-roost behavior.
I responded, "It has nothing to do with my muthur. I don't want to do this. Please stop."
I'm not saying the guy was slimy, but that's how I felt about him and, honestly, who really wants to play nookie in a public toilet? Gak!
As I was at that age where as a teenager, I should have been "experimenting" with other kids around my age I did not consider it pædophilia. I suppose if I had actually known his name, I could have reported it to the police, but I just felt so dirty and degraded that I had to get out and go home, strip, shower and change clothes.
I was never able to wear that pair of trousers again. They were a good pair of trousers and my muthur could never figure out why I just wouldn't wear them any more. I never told either parent about it.*
I would have been about fouteen at the time and capable of sexual engagement if I had so chosen, although the State's age of consent for males was 18, girls 16. At the time of writing the male age has been lowered to 16 to match the girls, but there are some people out their pushing to have it lowered further!
* In 1999 when I sort of fell in it's-tearing-my-heart-out-just-to-think-about-it love with a guy, I was so messed up about my feelings that I did discuss the issue with both parents. Despite the past, I think my muthur would have been more accepting of it, my father would probably have been disappointed, but I think he had realized that he was never going to get a grandchild through me^. Eventually I had little choice but to tell the guy in question.
"You may end up throwing me out the door for this but...."
He didn't throw me out but it went nowhere either.
^ After the number of children I had baby-sat while on staff, I had changed enough diapers and made enough formulae, and dealt with enough teenage behavior that I had no need to put myself through it personally. In fact, only today, I was discussing this an older friend who had not had children in his marriage, and he asked if my decision was a selfish one. I was able to answer no, being aware that there was something wrong with my body, and that I didn't believe intelligence was genetic, I did not want to pass on this affliction to another generation.
You raise some interesting points here.
Firstly, it was not your fault, nor were you 'defective'.
The guy was being a predator upon you. It doesn't matter whether he was hetero or gay or anywhere else on that slide rule, he was a pedophile as well. Being a pedophile is completely different to your adult sexual orientation. Being what they are, they know how to work your guilt processes. The reason I mentioned sociopathy is because they are manipulating you for their own ends and want you want or feel does not even come into it. This may or may not be accurate, but it is one of the traits of this type of personality.
Maybe you should have brought the police into it. But remember at 15 most kids have trouble thinking rationally in an adult way due to life inexperience. You do what you think is right or what you can at the time. There is no judgement of you as a person about that, save what you judge yourself to be. Hindsight makes us all feel guilty at times.
'Experimenting' with other kids of your age is generally considered to be perfectly normal. Our hormones are raging and we are checking ourselves out. We tend to learn from these experiences about ourselves and where we are going to. There should be no guilt attached here.
Most average gays and heteros have no interest whatsoever in sexual activity with children.
Also, being gay is not genetic.
There is a difference between male and female thetans. What determines which you are? Whatever you decide you are.
Undoing Yourself With Energized Meditation and Other Devices, Christopher S. Hyatt
I found this book to be very therapeutic.
Ms Handbasket, you are of course right. However you can decide you are both, as I do.
The clever Native Americans had a phrase, before they learned that they had an incorrect culture, 'two spirit'.
Two spirits are both male and female, it makes them special, they were often healers, witch doctors or entertainers. The fact that they saw life as both male and female gave them extra status, not less.
I carry no guilt or shame about the incident I described. There was a certain "embarrassment" at how easily I was cornered, but that too has passed. The quandry that this created for me was that most of the kids at school accused me of being gay with a complete lack of evidence, so I was stuck with "Do I make liars of them all by lying to myself, or do I give up and just let the shit fly?" I eventually figured out that one of my cruellest taunters was probably covering up his own gayness.
Although it may meet the legal definition of paedophilia, I cannot rationalize it that way, because I was not being introduced to a concept that I did not understand, as opposed to the girl across the street who wanted me to kiss her between the legs. In that case the "step" father was definitely a paedophile, and I wonder at what age did those girls finally realize that what he had been doing to them was "sex".
When I look at my own niece it gets awkward because she is turning into one hot chicky babe! But I have no desire to do anything other than to build her confidence up by telling her that she is in fact attractive when she feels completely NOT.
There is probably a great number of youth out there upon whom I look with jealousy, wishing that I could have looked that good at that age, but my secret health condition decreed otherwise.
Going to the police would have been extremely difficult, because I didn't know his name, could not accurately describe him, other than "slimy", and incidents within our own family that meant my sister and I should have been removed were ignored by the Police. My sister frequently ran away. I only did it once. I went straight to the police in a completely distressed state and all they did was take me back home again! That was never a home, it was a dreaded house.
In my year at High School, there were two guys with the same name, so one was P**** M. (the school initial) and the other was P**** T. (the other school's initial. It came as no surprise to me that P**** M. was gay. Only recently at our 20th year school re-union did I learn that P**** T. had outed himself as gay, so the lingering question: Did he know about himself in High School and let me cop all the flack because that way he was left alone? Or did he believe he was stright only to realize as an adult that he wasn't?
I see no point in carrying a grudge for more than twenty or thirty years and Revenge is a meal best served cold and preferably on good silver.
Peterman, this one?
This has him talking more about what he's on about. But not much. He does sound a bit culty.
What did you find good about him?
Hi Allan, I'm CT. Thank you so much for sharing your story. The details of your encounter and your escape are unbelievable. I'm working as a Producer on the second season of a recently popular cable docu-series here in the States that exposes the COS and its trail of broken families, shameless cover-ups, and cases of inhumane treatment of its members. Perhaps you've heard of it? I would really love to speak with you offline about sharing your story & possibly helping us reach others that may want to go on-camera and actively help us achieve the positive change many of the users in this forum are seeking. We cannot do this without individuals like you, so please think it over. I cannot, for some reason send Private Messages w/ this new account yet. But if you could reach out directly to us via MR's blog, it's the safest and most confidential way of exchanging info & initiating contact: http://www.mikerindersblog.org/contact-me/
Hope to talk soon