Scientology is coming apart at the seams!

Discussion in 'Chris Shelton's Videos' started by Wants2Talk, Jan 31, 2015.

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  1. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    Your memory seems to be failing you on this point.

    There was a "Pledge To Mankind" signed on behalf of the IAS by all the top executives and it is on display at Saint Hill in East Grinstead. It was signed on the 7th October 1984. That is the official date of the start of the IAS. That's not my opinion or my memory. It's a fact.

    I have the first few issues of the IAS magazine, Impact, and the details are in there. It's also on google.

    It's also strange that you say you hadn't heard of a "Scientology policy directive" until I mentioned it. That is strange because I didn't mention it. I mentioned a Scientology Policy Letter, not directive.

    Having thought about it a bit further, I think now that you might be right. It was probably a policy directive not letter i.e. an SPD not an SPL as I said. But the point is you must have heard of a Scientology Policy Directive before my post otherwise how could you mention it in your post?
  2. Chris Shelton

    Chris Shelton Patron with Honors

    You can believe that Hubbard approved of the IAS but you don't know that to be the case. It is in direct contravention of the written statements of those ex's who were on the Int lines at the time that Hubbard did not know of and did not approve of the IAS. Knowing Miscavige, knowing Hubbard's mental state and knowing how things were going i 1984, it is totally conceivable that Hubbard knew nothing about it. It doesn't really change anything one way or the other, because it is what it is but the evidence we have confirms what I said about it.
  3. Moderator 3

    Moderator 3 Guest

  4. Lone Star

    Lone Star Crusader

    I don't know of very many exes who had regular, direct contact with Hubbard over the last six years of his life. Neither Rathbun or Rinder had personal dealings with him during this transitional period. But DM certainly had regular contact. He was Hubbard's boy picked to do dirty work and various projects not so apparently dirty.

    Given what was going on at the time I don't think that Hubbard would've opposed the idea of the IAS. Is the IAS style of regging against some older policy letters? Sure. But Hubbard didn't exactly follow his own policies perfectly either. One thing is for sure, he was never opposed to new ways of bringing in the cash.
  5. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor


    Benefits of switching from HASI to IAS? (EDITED to correct "IAS".)

    HASI may have had limited money sucking power.
    IAS does not have Hub's name so all the money sucking can be seen as distanced from Hubbard.

    I have not very specific memories of when IAS was first being unleashed. It was at a time when all the shell games were being worked on and stitched up. Not long after that our ED told us about some nasty people at the top who were trying to get control of scientology and he gave us Miscaviges's (and his helpers) shore story about why frantic legal protections were needed.
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2015
  6. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    The following document gives some interesting information on Scientology Policy Directives (SPDs) and also it mentions an SPD being used to form the IAS.

    Obviously, I cannot guarantee the accuracy of the information but it makes an interesting read.

    By the way, I once wrote to the IAS asking for a refund of $50,000 and in my letter I mentioned that I knew their organization had been formed by a Scientology Policy Directive, which is squirrel policy, and therefore they are a squirrel organization.

    I got a full refund by return of post.

  7. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    Chris - I had a similar viewpoint - I didn't go on line looking for anti scio stuff, but if a news story crossed my path, I read it, because I figured the GO or OSA had failed to maintain PR control, and that wasn't my fault. For instance I read the Time Magazine article when it came out, but it never made an impression on me, such was my level of dissonance. It just didn't sink in. It had nothing to do with my Scientology.

    Let's fast forward to my getting declared, when I had my OT 7 materials taken away from me. I was still under the impression that Scientology worked. I started reading over my wife's shoulder as she went on line to these various sites. Finally she told me to go look at it from my own damn computer. With trepidation, I did. I started reading this site, Jeff Hawkins' site, Just Bill's Ask the Scientologist - and the mind fuck started breaking apart. But I wanted to fix Scientology. I still felt it had value.

    It was with shock I realized that the term Entheta had nothing to do with whether the entheta was true or not. That the Purif was actually bogus - it had no workability, out side of whatever one got out of the exercise and vites.

    It's a long route finding the lies you bought into. Or at least it was for me, after all I was a class 6 on OT 7. My wife (same status) realized if Hubbard lied about X (I can't recall any more which lie she said she rejected) where else did he lie? And jettisoned it all in a split second.

    I really think you should mine that vein some more. Making a video aimed at the already outs is to some extent - preaching to the choir, though it serves a purpose, the target audience of non-scios, possible reaching pre-scios and under the radars is very valuable to reach.

    I have long thought a series examining some of the basic Scientology tech points, would be interesting. But not preaching that it doesn't work. Discussing things like ARC, the purif, entheta, etc. with a reasoned, non-judgmental approach.

    Criticizing Hubard's tech is dicey business, especially with his dictums against verbal tech, and the fact many are stuck in the wins they had. However, I think it can be done.

    Let's say you want to discuss the purif - I would mix it with success stories, and how the body metabolizes the fat, that there's no physical route in the body for the fat to go to the cells and change for tainted fat, that the body doesn't retain water soluble toxins but that birds will die from DDT stored in the fat when the body metabolizes it over the winter when they use the fat reserves to survive. Ask: How then does it get the gains in the success stories? Is it the placebo effect? The exercise? The vites? The sauna? Things do turn on while doing it - I had (what I thought was ) a flush in my face from radiation from computer monitors hours after leaving the sauna. Present the facts in a way that allows questions to form in their minds without ever triggering the "that's entheta" button.

    I think you did great - I hope it reaches your target audience and they recommend it to their friends.

  8. Student of Trinity

    Student of Trinity Silver Meritorious Patron

    Could it be that the era of cults in history is ending? Even in poor countries nowadays, most people have cell phones with internet access. The isolation on which cults rely may be coming to an end, for almost everyone.

    People will still be gullible, and they may well encounter more scams than ever before. People will still get scammed; maybe even more than ever before. But maybe it will mainly be little scams, that suck people in for a few months of enthusiasm, instead of serious cults that hook people for decades.

    Or maybe it will be the level of commitment that goes down, instead of the duration. Maybe when cults that build temples and Ideal Orgs with people's life savings die away, what will survive will be less demanding movements, just as wacky but less toxic. Maybe cults will give way to conspiracy theories.

    I think there was always something similar in the mindset of cult members and conspiracy theorists; a readiness to view the world through unusual lenses, for the sake of being one of the few in the know. But even if that never goes away, it will be a very good thing if the internet makes it very much harder, from now on, for cults to get away with the kind of total control over members that they achieved in the past.
  9. Udarnik

    Udarnik Gold Meritorious Patron

    This is a key piece of the psychology of cults. It doesn't apply to everyone in, of course. But just as epoxy is matrix of chemicals, the absence of any one of which would break the glue - so do cults rely on these people to provide the certainty of belief that others are looking for when they come to the organization.
  10. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Freudian slip, lol! :biggrin:. I must have heard of it at some point if I said directive. I left Scn and the SO over 25 years ago and apparently it's still ingrained on my subconscious, unfortunately.

    So I was wrong about this. Fair enough. We SO in the service orgs were kept mighty busy at other, vital things to clear the planet. :eyeroll:

    Even so, I agree with LS that L Ron had very little to do with the running of the orgs in the last six years of his life. DM was pretty much running the show with a few other senior execs and there was quite a power war going on between the various SO higher echelons (i.e., Int Mgmt, CMO Int, WDC, Finance Police, OSA, Exec Strata) entities in those years. Though I don't doubt that L Ron would have approved any sort of money-making machine that distanced himself from Scientology since, according to numerous reports, he was pretty paranoid in those final years.

    I agree completely. Every ex that was near Hubbard thought he was a basket case in his final years and DM was practically the only one who was in touch with him and controlled his communications. Whether Hubbard knew or not, I doubt that he even gave a shit - DM had most of the control by then.
  11. scientology is coming apart at the schemes...
  12. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    This is a valid and logical view. I happen to think its incorrect.

    It may have some validity re new and unusual cults such as Scn.

    However the well established cults such as Catholicism are different IMO. My wife is far more active than I re her squirrel brand of catholicism.
    I have no problem with her beliefs and actions, and she is from the Philippines.

    Then look at ISIS..... They can only survive with internet access.
  13. eldritch cuckoo

    eldritch cuckoo brainslugged reptilian

  14. Student of Trinity

    Student of Trinity Silver Meritorious Patron

    It's hard to say 'Like' to bad news, Terril, but I have to admit you may have a point.
  15. Teanntás

    Teanntás Silver Meritorious Patron

  16. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    One thing I read a while back about why conspiracy theories are attractive to some people (paraphrased):

    it's more comforting to think that there is SOMEBODY in control (even if it's a group of madmen), than to consider the possibility that we are all careening down the road in a bus with NOBODY at the wheel​
  17. oneonewasaracecar

    oneonewasaracecar Gold Meritorious Patron

    There's a bumper sticker right there.

    Scientology is really falling apart.
  18. Jump

    Jump Operating teatime

    Bumper sticker ideas ? . . .

    S C I E N T O L O G Y
    only MISCAVIGE is living the dream

  19. eldritch cuckoo

    eldritch cuckoo brainslugged reptilian

    Scientology bumper stickers

    Sounds fun. These might be a tad too intellectual for bumper stickers, though (seriously, here they are not very common). T-shirts, then. Some lines I've read before.

    S C I E N T O L O G Y
    if you can read this,
    you can read about XENU
    ( google it! )

    S C I E N T O L O G Y
    have you seen the MOVIE?

    S C I E N T O L O G Y
    they came, they saw, they SUED

    S C I E N T O L O G Y
    wants to SUE me for this bumper sticker

    S C I E N T O L O G Y
    the only thing about it that works
    are the LAWYERS

    S C I E N T O L O G Y
    providing guilt-free SCHADENFREUDE for decades

    S P Y I N ' T R O L L O G Y

    S C I E N T O L O G Y
    the reason the "WTF" button was invented
    ( www . forum . EXSCN . net )

    The last one is a bit of a guessing game, but it should work on people who are using facebook excessively and finding themselves looking for the "like" button on the newspaper. :p