Scientology Paradoxes nothing new

Discussion in 'New Member Introductions' started by Scientology, Jun 16, 2017.

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  1. Scientology

    Scientology Patron

    Hi i am Scientology & New Here
    I have been more and more interested in the paradoxes of Scientology and how it can start to suppress the freedom of a person by label her/him as a "suppressive person" and pretend to be interested in human rights and free speech at the very same time. Have really no history with dianetics or Scientology by doing courses or something like that. To be honest there is a lot i do not understand.

    The holy wars might have been one of the most dirty thing in human history and i guess Scientology is no exception. even if the monetary interests of a corporation might have more obviously incitement.

    [​IMG]
    Puppet on a string i do not get LHR Dianetics or Scientology

    [​IMG]
    MC yoyo

    [​IMG]

    Marty Rathbun i really don't understand at all but thought i did. but as always there is a lot one does not know when getting closer to a new unknown territory, and this term seems to be shredder made to Scientology and Scientologists.
     
  2. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    Search posts from ESMB member Veda...specifically regarding the onion.

    Read these.

    Look up pdfs of the book referenced and read that. I think this will give you the most mileage in terms of understanding L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology.

    In Marty's case follow the money...one could say the same for Hubbard and Miscavige.
     
  3. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Some Scientology is overt (visible, advertised, for "wogs" ["garden variety humanoids"] and newbies ["raw meat"]); other parts are "in-organization" for members or, sometimes, selected members only; and other parts are deeply secret meant for a very few at the top.

    This system may seem to contain contradictions but, to a veteran Scientologist, who understands that there are different "layers," saying, "We oppose X" when being overt or advertising, and "We do X" when being covert and secretive, is not contradictory.


    ________________​


    "Never use lies in PR" is what Hubbard called "PR of PR," or "nicey nicey PR."

    It's that part of Scientology PR tech, placed on display, that shrouds the rest (less visible) part of Scientology PR tech.


    "Statements one makes can be curved. 'She had a birthday party', becomes 'The delinquents inner circle gathered yesterday for a sex orgy and pretended to the police that it was a birthday party. No one was jailed'."

    L. Ron Hubbard, 'PR Series 18'.


    "The only safe public opinion to head for is they love us and are in a frenzy of hate against the enemy... this means standard wartime propaganda is what one is doing... Know the mores of your public opinion, what they hate. That's the enemy. What they love. That's you."

    L. Ron Hubbard, 'Battle Tactics'.


    The overt/covert nature of Scientology: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=392666&postcount=42

    'Scientology PR tech' thread: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=1911&highlight=scientology+tech



    Hope this helps.
     
  4. Knows

    Knows Gold Meritorious Patron

    Welcome Scientology. You may be a bit confused - but THAT is Scientology. It is a precise science of putting the being in total confusion whilst waxing that insouciant certainty whilst experiencing long episodes of "disassociation" after using Stop Thinking techniques and other sordid mind controlling parlor tricks.

    Thank you for your post - by the way.

    What is there to understand about Marty Rathbun?

    Study the history of Scientology.

    It is simple - Marty caved in - took a huge sum of money in exchange for recanting all of the whistle blowing he did when he left the cult...

    It is used so Scientology can use that ball of confusion Scientology "created" to confuse others (Members in doubt) - that are still in and happened to find his blog and got caught...reading his blog.

    It works when standardly applied:coolwink::wink2:
     
  5. Demented Hubbatd

    Demented Hubbatd Patron with Honors

    The cult suppresses its critics by the harassment, frivolous lawsuits, and sometimes by the violence. But calling a person "Suppressive Person" without doing anything else to them is an idiotic practice that doesn't do any harm.
     
  6. Scientology

    Scientology Patron

    Ok, a lot to read... Thanks!
    Does anyone here have some objective speaking against that Hubbard suffered from paranoid Schizophrenia?
    And that the system to begin with was he's own way of keeping with the problems he himself suffered from. He build up a hate towards the Psychiatry because he once might have been diagnosed, and nor the diagnosis nor the medicine as a cure did fit Hubbard at that time.

    The relabeling of suffering factors without the heat of having himself projected as the suffering part could have released his more creative parts into the wilderness of the landscape he saw, projected and the wrote about, with the force from sincere self healing needs in the positive ways, but also with force from the opposite way by pure paranoid beliefs (although dressed in new clothes in the projective art of meaning) Giving a very strong incitement & driving powers in overall. But also a striking opposition.


    Yes statements can be curved but mostly round up in the circling squares that makes the network. Having contradictions in 4 dimensions.

    And yes like the onion shells or getting a grip for that matter can be shown as holding in the oppositions that gives the precision from biceps to triceps & fingers to thumb holding the seeds of the onion like a curvature of bulb in time.

    But this layers of the onion seems to be a dream of freedom in the smallest prison cell, mostly gaining the management that supplies that idea and keelhauling it in very shallow layers.

    Well Rathbun was the first scientolog i thought i understand, but not. So the raw model of understanding was blown.
    Just seeing the ugly confrontation about his foster care ... and then his own statements about getting a mother away from her child actively .... and so on.

    The act of labeling a person suppressive is the gate to do the antisocial works of suppression of that persons human right it seems so with Scientology acting against Paulette Cooper. To me that looks more like how Hitler defined human values and the Phrenologic explanation of how a criminal antisocial mind looks, and hereby also giving the fact that if everyone believed in the criminal outlooks of the antisocial then their only option of getting a secure supply has to be -by being criminal.
     
  7. Scientology

    Scientology Patron

    The Electrodermal activity & responses in psychopaths can be very low, so is it always a good way to training to have a low effects of the memory derived electrodermal responses. I really wonder.

    A Psychopathic response pattern some would say. Or the art of propanolol (inderal) induced ways to lower the amplified memory derived releases of situational affects & it's later mark on brain plasticity, altering brain plasticity development as shown by twins.

    Hubbards early contacts with the creator of the electropsychometer Volney G mathison, could that have inspired Hubbard, who was know for the ability to handle hot situation effectively like the cold minded instrument expert. I suggest a possibility that they both realized that Hubbard has less reactions to stimuli at the first test sessions, and then later from his own preferential's developed the clear like me pattern of in the track of his own ability to be nonreactive as an answer to being oversensitive & all this in patterns ruled by and heavy disease and major ways to handle its affects and effects.

    Can you experts here on the person in overall, add some facts talking in favor or not of this high driving factor from at least two sides that Hubbard obviously had? I am interested in every aspect of how likely this could be from the fact that you actually know.

    Although labeling like schizophrenic or psychopaths often can be very negative, that's does not have to be a fact, schizophrenia could also be a state of high creativity .... and the usage of own solution on order to find order over a disorder and the world. Or do anyone here has explanations that appears much more likely?
     
  8. tesseract

    tesseract Patron with Horrors

    I'm going to be blunt.
    Frankly I have trouble deciphering your posts, and it looks like I'm not the only one. For now I can't nail down a reason of why that is, aside from being relatively certain you're not trying to be intentionally confusing.
    I don't care whether or to which degree you're suffering from a disease of the mind or if simply English is not your native language while you're big with words and like complicated, convoluted sentences. The point is, it isn't my native language as well, and so maybe it's just all me. In any case your style would benefit from shorter, less convoluted sentences, for the native speakers as well. This is no doubt a solution to become more comprehensible instantly. Also, there seem to be a lot of words used slightly wrongly, like someone picked the wrong synonyme from a dictionary ... or actually has problems with the mind. In either case it often is the better solution to talk around a term and keep using terms with which you're more familiar. And never rely on Google translate etc. to get around your point. :wink2:
    For now, regarding most of those sentences I hardly can see what you are trying to say unless maybe I breed for minutes over each sentence and what it might have meant. But the point is, this is tiresome and makes me just angry. (That simply comes from having tried too often to make sense of someone's stuff to then find out later they are intentionally confusing and/or insane.) Ultimately I have better things to do than that. :no:
     
  9. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist


    Are you wondering WHY the e-meter was originally designed and used? :confused2:
    (I can provide my opinion if this is what you are asking.)
     
  10. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    It is very difficult to track within your sentences. Are you also an expert?

    As regards the parts I have underlined in your post you might consider the below quote.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_supply


    Psychoanalyst Otto Kernberg considered the malignant narcissistic criminal to be coldly characterised by a disregard of others unless they could be idealised as sources of narcissistic supply.[9] Self psychologist Heinz Kohut saw those with narcissistic personality disorder as disintegrating mentally when cut off from a regular source of narcissistic supply.[10] Those providing supply to such figures may be treated as if they are a part of the narcissist, in an eclipse of all personal boundaries.[11]

    Am I supplying at least some of what you are asking for? :unsure:
     
  11. Scientology

    Scientology Patron

    I am sorry English is not my language. And the topics is somewhat complex. I just wrote down what I was thinking at the moment. I have no intention of being hard to understand or an expert in the topics, I was more thinking loud and wrote it down... in a complex topic. And then checking it by grammar control in MS word.
     
  12. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Nice find, dchoice. I'm crossposting that to the MR thread. :thumbsup:
     
  13. Scientology

    Scientology Patron

    1 Do we know anything about Hubbard first contacts with the electropsychometer? Including his own electro dermal response?
    2 and yes i am interested in thoughts about why the electropsychometer Emeter was designed and used. beyond the fact that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volney_Mathison constructed the first E-meter in 1940. In the references later on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-meter seems pointing in different directions
    3 Anyone have an fact/opinion of Hubbard suffering from paranoid schizophrenia?
    4 Hubbard was obviously creative. Externalizations of his problems by A/being afraid of foreign inclusions B/Finding joy and power in life, fits the xenu implants theory. in my thinking, any comment on that?
     
  14. Scientology

    Scientology Patron

    Sorry for my bad english [​IMG]

    Yes, the narcissistic supply and the codependency can explain some of the driving factors. to me it’s hard to understand the fanatic defending of the church and how it is transmitted to normal persons without that sign to begin with.

    The Fear of being without supply and the joy of having the power to supply.... Yes that's strong Driving factors … Thank you! Any thought about Hubbard suffering from paranoid schizophrenia?
     
  15. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

  16. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    Some credit must certainly be given to grey crane in this post http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?43965-Was-he-Bipolar&p=1143052&viewfull=1#post1143052 and the provided link on psychologytoday.

    I really gained a lot from reading that https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...nship-between-narcissism-and-bipolar-disorder.


    In particular an explanation of how one can become narcissistic.

    "
    The developmental origins of a specific personality organization are not algorithmic. It's not like all people with strong narcissistic traits have been subjected to the same developmental influences. However, there is enough consistency in its pathogenesis to say it does frequently entail an individual's early needs to be developmentally more advanced than one's age, a sense of insufficiency, lack of adequate attunement from primary parental figures and an experience of the developing self that’s diffuse and not well-formed. And yet despite the experience of deficit, the narcissistically organized individual has learned to draw on specific strengths and capacities in order to distance from felt vulnerabilities or weaknesses. If you think about it, it’s actually a remarkable early developmental adaptation."

    and this is how the personality syndrome comes into play and manifests itself...

    "Narcissistic individuals have developed the capacity to inflate, expand upon and intensify their strengths. They learn to lead with them in such manner that their experience of feeling small or vulnerable is masked by the presentation of just the opposite"

    and then this

    "narcissist is strongly invested in his or her strengths because they are employed in the service of protecting or buttressing the self against the experience of insufficiency. Temporarily, all are fooled by this compensatory counterbalance, including the individual behind the narcissistic mask.

    and so I can see how intense oppression by the Cult can break a person ( narcissistic injury ), or drive them into a malignant narcissistic mode especially if that oppressed person has "stored patterned organizations or one might say "identity patterns' or perhaps somewhat akin to schizophrenia and similar to what is discussed in Identics.

    And we get an uncontrolled (by the individual) shift of mental framework and a somewhat corresponding bewildering activity.


    "But the dilemma is that the narcissist must intensely invest in the defense because any crack in the armor can lead to a precipitous collapse into realms of the self that are intolerable. The personality structure lacks adequate flexibility and the individual is prone to feel rapid onset of acute pain when his or her narcissistic style doesn't work well enough to acquire the love, admiration, power or control the individual was seeking. This pain, brought about by the rapid collapse of defenses, is what we refer to as narcissistic injury."

    combined with

    "Conversely, the narcissist's grandiose self-perception is more enduring. The experience of superiority is called into play with enough frequency that it's an integral aspect of the individual's self-perception."


    There is much more in that article "The Relationship Between Narcissism and Bipolar Disorder" by

    Russ Federman, Ph.D., ABPP is in private practice in Charlottesville, VA (www.RussFederman.com).

    Anywhoo that is one look in on it. There are plenty more views around and about "Dissociative identity disorder (DID), also known as multiple personality disorder (MPD),[1] is a mental disorder characterized by at least two distinct and relatively enduring identities or dissociated personality states."
     
  17. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist


    Also, narcissists like to use group humiliation on individuals.
    IMO, this is why there was overboarding when Hubbard formed his Sea Org and went off into the Mediterranean Sea.
     
  18. TrevAnon

    TrevAnon Big List researcher

    O well. This board has now existed for how many years?

    And now someone registers with alias Scientology.

    We're all almost obliged to say something we just hate to say:

    Welcome Scientology!

    :welcome2:
     
  19. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    The key word being "almost".:biggrin:
     
  20. strativarius

    strativarius Comfortably Numb

    I'm sorry to be harsh on the newbie, but to choose the name scientology on an ex-scientologists bulletin board shows a distinct lack of imagination IMO and, dare I say, a touch of bad taste. Nobody died I guess, but it certainly didn't make me feel like welcoming him/her.
     

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