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Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Smackthis., Sep 7, 2013.
Could it be?
A page from the once classified (in 1953) Kubark Manual - titled Alice in Wonderland
The entire KUBARK Manual is webbed here for your convenience:
Old discussion of Kubark here on ESMB
The Confusion Technique is documented by clinical hypnotists HERE: http://www.lermanet.com/scientology/confusion-technique2.htm and HERE: http://www.lermanet.com/exit/confusion-technique.htm
'Dear Alice' routine (reading from 'Alice in Wonderland'), used on Hubbard's TR 1, an introductory course in $cientology, dates from June 1957. The Interrogation Manual dates from July 1963 at which time it was CLASSIFIED.
In a footnote at the end of the Kubark Manual,
(ex-$cns should substitute AUDITOR for interrogator and PC for interrogatee while reading this)
"27. Meerloo, Joost A.M. The Rape of the Mind, World Publishing Co., Cleveland, 1956. This books primary value for the interrogator is that it will make him aware of a number of elements in the responses of an interrogatee which are not directly related to the questions being asked or the interrogation setting but are instead the product of (or at least influenced by) all questioning that the subject has undergone earlier, especially as a child. For many interrogatees the interrogator becomes, for better or worse, the parent or authority symbol. Whether the subject is submissive or belligerent may be determined by his childhood relationships with his parents. Because the same forces are at work in the interrogator, the interrogation may be chiefly a cover for a deeper layer of exchange or conflict between the two. For the interrogator a primary value of this book (and much related psychological and psychoanalytic work) is that it may give him a deeper insight into himself. "
Joost Meerloo's The Rape of the MIND, webbed by Lermanet.com in 2005
http://www.lermanet.com/scientology/ < the choice of subdirectory name was intentional..
Scientology and the Occult LINK
"Day 2, page 23, Clearwater Commission Hearings, L Ron Hubbard's son speaking under oath: http://www.lermanet.com/82cwcommission/2-021-040.htm "my father always felt that he was above the law because he had created the law. He created whatever rules, regulations, and laws to be lived by. There was only one sin in Scientology, which was repeated to me at least a few thousand times, which is, getting caught."
Page 104, Political Ponerology by Andrew M. Lobaczewski
"Reverse Blockade: emphatically insisting upon something which is the opposite of the truth blocks the average person's mind from perceiving the truth. In accordance with the dictates of healthy common sense, he starts searching for meaning in the "golden mean" between truth and its opposite, winding up with some satisfactory counterfeit. People who think like this do not realize that this effect is precisely the intent of the person who subjects them to this method. "
Certainly there is much cover up done against big paedophile rings, they all have high connections. The police of much of Europe once worked under Nazi supervision I know that was a long time ago, but the policemen that rounded up Jews and Political dissenters were responsible for recruiting the guys that followed them and so on, it's hardly difficult therefore to get Satanists and the rest working in European police forces. Even without that there have been the high profile cases in the UK, still coming to light. I know someone who has told me some very disturbing things about her brother a Gendarme in France, though it doesn't include anything like this, it does show me that they are very protective of their own.
After having studied MK Ultra materials in depth, many years ago, I can easily conceive how Scientology was and is a segment of government experimentation into advanced mind control techniques.
What is so ironic is that those in charge of it all are actually "the psychs". By Scientology creating the illusion that it is "against psychiatry", this acts as a very effective form of misdirection away from what is really going on.
A key aspect of human population control is the manipulation of appearances. This goes on constantly at every level of society. The methods have been advancing over the past 50 years. Hubbard defined "PR" as the effective control of the beliefs, ideas, wants and opinions of others. Effective PR is actually a form of mind control. Hubbard delineated very exact procedures for manipulating the beliefs, ideas, wants and opinions of others. Most likely, the results of "the Scientology experiment" have been taken and adopted by various highly secretive government agencies (and greatly expanded upon with their own separate "research").
It's sadly ironic that Elcon implemented the most negative aspects of psychology/psychiatry, studies of the darkest parts of human nature, the most insidious methods of manipulation to be used by the unscrupulous and packaged it as 'the answer', the very things he was saying he was against! What a con! ... and a slick piece of cognitive dissonance. In hindsight, at least to me, it's plainly evident that Elcon had a very shrewd grasp of psychological manipulation and used it shamelessly. As do many of the unconscionable to this day.
It is interesting how this French Cult Watchdog Committee spends so much of its time going after vegans, yoga, alternative medicine and organic foods.
I have also studied a great deal about the Drug Cartels (not the "illegal" ones), their links to the Rockefellers, and the western push for DRUGS, surgery and radiation to "cure all human illnesses" that grew out of Rockefeller's effective manipulations in various industries and in the medical field itself.
Who benefits the most by attacks on and shutting down alternative medicine, organic foods, and more natural less-toxic diets?
Follow the money . . . .
A sick and unhealthy population keeps the money rolling in to the drug companies, insurance companies, and the medical industry. Creating a sick population is "good business".
It could also be that the top manipulators USE occult methods for their own personal development (just as Hubbard did with visualization and affirmations), know that it is effective, and want to limit or remove it from being used by the "lowly herd of humanity". I have the view that occult methods and non-toxic diets (which are utterly impossible if you buy your food at a regular supermarkets and restaurants) are VERY GOOD, when properly understood and used to create peace and harmony.
Of course, the power-hunger elitists in control of some or much of this may use deranged and "evil" versions of occult methodology - walking the left-hand path.
Note: As an example, the majority of the people have been totally conditioned to eat CRAP (FDA-approved poison), from the time they are born to the time they die. And then, when they get sick, they are conditioned to go to a regular AMA-approved doctor to "handle" the "disease" with drugs , chemo, radiation or surgery. On top of that, most are also conditioned to look down upon "natural remedies" that aim to address the "basic causes instead of the symptoms".
Heck, the AMA actually had to take out a full page ad in US Today magazine a few years back apologizing for its decade long nasty and deceitful attacks on the Chiropractic field. They used every lie, exaggeration and trick in the book to destroy the field of Chiropractic. Why? They were competition that did not flow dollars to the drug and medical industry. The drug industry has and continues to run a constant program, in cahoots with the FDA and other agencies, to pull people away from sane and healthy lifestyle choices.
Whatever "helps the economy" and "is good for business" takes seniority. It is a very twisted world we live in. It is especially so in the USA.
I agree completely.
In this he WAS "brilliant".
You are using the indicative mood, not the subjunctive. What *evidence* is there that either Hubbard or the Dwarf has received and acted on orders from outside? One would think that some defector by now in the 60 years since Scn was started would have at least given some hint of such control. I haven't seen any such revelations in the form of personally witnessed events. Conjecture from people like the Veritas loons doesn't count.
It's not the same, Arnie.
Yes, in doing TR-1 and TR-2 one uses phrases from Alice in Wonderland. So what? Even if one spends days in a row doing it, as one might do on a Pro TRs course, it is still not the same. I found it quite stressful at one time in 1986 in New World Corps as I was stuck on TR-2 for about a week, drilling and word-clearing etc and just could NOT get through a bug on acknowledging people I had had my entire life. It finally resolved with a False Data Stripping session, and I haven't had a single repeat of that trouble in the 17 years since.
However, at no time in doing TR-1/TR-2 did I ever lose track of the reality of where I was or what I was doing, as is the intent behind the Kubark creation of a fantasy environment for the interrogation subject.
I said that I can "easily conceive . . . . ". I can imagine how it might be so. It could and would make sense to me with everything else I know.
Do I "believe" it? No. I consider it a theory that might be accurate to some degree. It would fit in with other pieces of the puzzle. And, in the end, I just don't care enough to try to "prove" it one way or the other. I am quite content in my endless state of NOT-KNOW about so many many things . . . . :confused2:
But, I am aware of a great many possibilities (theories, claims) that must each be graded as to probability (which is largely a subjective call no matter how objective one might think it to be).
I've been reading up on this topic too a lot lately. What I've found to be exceptionally creepy, is that a very large bunch of the folks out there now on YTube and talking about illumnati. majestic 12 and everything in the whole conspiracy thing that 'needs to be exposed' - from aliens to super soldiers - have at one time, been involved with Scn!! ...then later defected.
I've just found this out recently and it really has put a few more pieces of the puzzle together for me.
There are some serious ties and sometimes it seems they could be a very legit reason why Hubbub, lost all morality upon 'knowing about these things' and created his little money kingdom. It would/could explain his complete and total acting, and being completely different than what the topic was/is 'supposed' to be based on...
Just my currents thoughts
Would "a very large bunch" of such people be 5 people? 50 people? 50%? .0005%?
When I was involved with Scientology, I first got a hold of None Dare Call It Conspiracy in 1976. From then I went on to read many hundreds of books on bankers, CFR, Trilateral Commission, secret societies, freemasonry, Bildebergers, ties with the occult, occult groups, global control & manipulation, Satanism, mind control, and of course, a great number of books on aliens, UFOs, abductions and so forth. Majestic 12 and the Illuminati theories were old hat to me in 1995.
I found that while a few Scientologists were interested in such things, most were not, and the Church of Scientology came to take a stance that ANY interest other than supporting Scientology was "other fish to fry". When Flag public were getting all riled up reading Bramley's Gods of Eden back in the mid 1990s, the book was ordered NOT to be read in a Flag SOED (along with Cooper's Behold a Pale Horse).
The "truth" will NEVER be "exposed", because the real secrets remain secrets - forever. I gave up trying to "figure it all out" a long time ago. I found it far better to work on my own Karma and state of consciousness, than to focus on all of this stuff (which even if true does one no good to dwell upon). If there are aliens who are far advanced mentally and technologically, and who are working with key planetary powers, in the end, really, just like a hurricane, there is NOTHING you can do about it (even if you understood about it accurately and fully). In a very real sense, such things are also "forces of Nature". The best you can do is try to steer clear of such things.
Also there is so much misdirection strewn about by the powers that be. Too often what you think is the truth is simply what someone wanted you to "think and believe" was the truth (i.e. manipulation of appearances). This "art of social manipulation" runs very deep.
Hubbard connection to a site where MkUltra was going on: LINK
I'll try and round up some links and such later for ya DOF - bizzy now - but also, I don't really follow this stuff religiously and haven't saved links, etc...
And yes GF - what you say is so very true! Everything is taken with a grain of salt.
My main reason for even being interested is just that I have some insatiable thing in my brain, that just HAS TO explain just how and why things are so completely F-ed up as they are, and with such a potentially wonderful human race...I know there's more to it than just evil bankers...but that is a big part of it I'm sure.
But it does ring true for me that many who got into Scn - definitely not all - are the types who love infinite mysteries and Scn was indeed that, since it could never ever be 'figured out'.
The truth is definitely out there, in there, and all around here for certain!
Did manage to find this:
Apparently, and new to me, these 2 have been doing this 'project Camelot' thing for while now. But go to around 40min and listen what he's saying (I'm sure scn topic starts before timemarker though)
The guy was an ex scn, but apparently now in RonsOrg thingy in UK...making it dubious to me now.
Disclaimer: I am not any sort of expert in this whole thing, it's just interesting to me, but in no means am I any sort of diehard follower. I do though find the Citizens Disclosure hearings' (Apr29-May3, 2013) to be very interesting. It ALL could be a big sideshow though as I really do not know - just very interesting. And especially with all the very credible witness testimony coming out now, which hasn't ever existed in the last - since 40s-50s time period. It was always ma + pa, redneck types, etc: but now highly placed elected officials and military personnel, Lockheed, Boeing, bla, bla.
Take it as you may.
I think what GF said is extremely true though and probably the most sane perspective. And I am certain that Arnie is infinitely more studied than myself in these areas...
But I tend to believe now: that anyone who has definite, proven ties to OTO, Crowley worshipper, etc - can be a source of all HELL that anyone might imagine, for starters...
Personally, I enjoyed everything I read by Crowley. :confused2:
I think that Crowley's "evil" is greatly exaggerated. The main people who don't like him are over-indoctrinated Christians. By the way, Satanism has NOTHING to do with Crowley.
I did a great deal of reading about Theosophy, the Rosicrucians, Masonry, the Golden Dawn, the Kaballah and how it all related to Crowley and his O.T.O.
I very much enjoyed this book:
I can't quote the names, or sources, but... I learned from certain folks at disclosureproject.org that $cn tried very hard to get its hooks into that organization....
Crowley wasn't a Satanist, but he did adopt the name 'Beast 666', and Jack Parsons did write 'The Book of the Antichrist' and call himself 'Belarion Antichirst'.
Self portrait by Aleister Crowley
And Hubbard did convince each of his followers to regard himself or herself as a "thay-tan," which, before the English mucked it up by mispronouncing it, rhymed with...
After reading Crowley's autobiography (a laugh a minute), as I see it, Crowley adopted various Judeo-Christian motifs to PUSH the buttons of the Christians (whom he so greatly detested).
And, as I have said before, this thing about "thetan" being "satan" with a lisp is nothing more than a coincidence. But, you are free to read into it whatever you choose . . . .
I understand that it might have been intentional on Hubbard's part, but I doubt it. And, there is no way to confirm it - I have never read a report of any person who was with Hubbard back in the day who has first-hand knowledge that Hubbard chose the word "thetan" because of the close similarity to "satan".
But, anything is possible . . . . . :confused2:
At BEST, at the MOST, Hubbard and Crowley possibly chose such symbols and phrases ONLY because of the significance such terms held for the active existing Christian population. I doubt very much that Hubbard or Crowley put much stock in the Judeo-Christian mythologies as presented in the bible - other than as deep unconscious symbols that may exist in the human psyche.