Scientology, the CIA & MK ULTRA

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Smackthis., Sep 7, 2013.

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  1. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Re: Project Camelot and Scientology

    I would concur. "The Dane Tops is Ingo Swann" thing is pretty far out. I certainly never heard it before.

    The cult of Ron, apparently, is not able to tolerate the idea that Ron was behind the abuses of the Guardians Office, or that Ron placed the CMO (Commodore Messenger's Org) over the Guardians Office (which effectively removed his wife Mary Sue) and then secretly ran the CMO himself (with Miscavige as the General Manager), or that Ron did any number of other nasty things, so explanations are needed, such as the "Ron was replaced with a doppelganger (look-alike) in 1973 in Queens, New York," or - preferred by Dane Tops - Ron's youthful Commodore's Messengers were taken over by an evil alien influence intent of destroying Mankind's only road to freedom, etc.

    From the 1983 'Dane Tops Debrief'. All capitalization is from original:

    "RON would NEVER NEVER give LESS communication and NO communication as solutions for the problems we are handling. RON would tell you to INCREASE communication and INCREASE ARC. RON would NEVER tell us to handle entheta by stopping theta activities. WE would say to INCREASE the theta activities and put your attention that which you wish to be there."

  2. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    OT 18?!? Wow! All us Meatballs had better be careful what we say about this. I had no idea... :notworthy:
  3. OhMG

    OhMG Patron Meritorious

    A friend of mine is OT 100 (Dungeon Master)
  4. Vittorio

    Vittorio Patron Meritorious

    Having had time to think a little more about this, it would seem that Bill is the sort of guy who can sit and story tell for hours and is quite likeable. Whether he takes his storytelling into the surreal, such as his having had an ET girlfriend, is a matter of opinion. Kerry seems to be more blunt and to the point making them polar opposites. His involvement with Ron's Org has gotten him some flack in various places on the internet and I'm once again reminded of Excalibur and all the Arthurian words that the Camelot people use and the holy grail and emphasis on the cup over the elixir, something that Scientology is very much for.

    Loohan, that is really interesting. What do the think of cases such as the Rhode Island/Perron haunting, Southing haunting and Sallie's House haunting? There are several similar hauntings but all seem to involve entities that can either attach themselves to or affect multiple people from distances. I wonder if this is a more plausible explanation for what Hubbard called a "BT". Several people who've visited Sallie's house say that although they experienced nothing whilst there, something appeared later when they got home or they would have very disturbing dreams. With the Amityville horror which many believe to be a hoax (remember the Lutz's passed a lie detector test), one journalist stated that something tampered with his car on the highway shortly after leaving the house (with it's new owners).

    Also, you mention reptilian shape shifters. Something which until this point I believed was a line of information used to discredit real discourse on conspiracy theories. In email with Cathy O'Brien she told me that she had warned David Icke about pursuing the reptilian route as she states that the reptilian image was only a visual illusion (it's mentioned briefly in her first book). In her second book I believe she mentions the meeting with Icke. Another writer and researcher (who does not wish to be named here) claims that David requested her research in the mid 90's before he introduced his reptilian shape shifting theory. She believes in reincarnation and that at some point only reptiles were only able to survive on earth and that the spirits of those here would have reincarnated into those and that there is a predatory psychology to a lot of world leaders.

    I've yet to hear of Bill to receive any auditing and from my contacts Bill may have only have been to one RO UK meeting when it was initially formed back in 2006, despite being one of it's founders. Techless, I agree 100% that all the connections make's a person believe it is all true despite obvious flaws. I had time to dwell on it last night and it's made me want to dig out some of my old books.

    Maybe Terril could get Bill Ryan over here to explain in a bit more detail?
  5. Vittorio

    Vittorio Patron Meritorious

    This thread brings me back to the Montauk Project;

    This is one of the more discredited conspiracy theories. However, the way the people talk seems very genuine. A former SO Scientologist called Peter Moon co-authored the books. He's long out of Scientology but does mention in one of the volumes how once when docked in San Francisco, he and another SO member visited some kind of museum where there was a waxwork or statue of Aleister Crowley and he got some kind of weird intuitive thought in regards to Hubbard. Years later when working on the Montauk book he was asleep at home one night when all of a sudden he found himself outside of his body and in the sky and could see a bust of Hubbard and it shattered and behind the bust was a hag of a woman. I've just been reading Robert Grave's "The White Goddess" and early on in the book it describes how the goddess in ancient poetry was sometimes described as an old hag. With his red hair and the fact that the messenger had to travel to Ireland to inform Hubbard of Quentin's death and the Arthurian names in Project Camelot and RO; whether there is some connection to some ancient right or lore.

    Terril has also mentioned on these boards that a former Scientologist with connections with the OTO was approached by Sea Org members asking for data to help with the OT levels? This would mean that at some level in Scientology, it is accepted and known about that Hubbard used some form of magic/channelling to acquire information rather than through his own hard work and intuition.

    Interestingly I remember an incident from my childhood when I told my mother than I had discovered some kind of goblet near the remains of an old castle near our home (although I hadn't).

    A couple of years ago I visited Camp Hero/Montauk Point and whilst I didn't find anything unusual (apart from the large number of security vehicles driving around) I found that Long Island is not a high energy place. This is also somewhere where Crowley was said to have visited and done a working.
  6. freethinker

    freethinker Crusader

    OK I misread your prior post, what is Ect.? You said he was interested in auditing Ect. which I mistook for ect. capitalized.
  7. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    "Ect" is an, er, creative abbreviation for etcetera. For context, it came from "their was quite a bit of interest in recieving auditing Ect."

  8. freethinker

    freethinker Crusader

    Well I'll be. Does that mean I duplicated him utterly?
  9. In present time

    In present time Gold Meritorious Patron

    Re: Project Camelot and Scientology

    she is a prima donna and is almost impossible to get along with.
    if you are an extremely adoring male fan she will just about try to be nice, but it's difficult for her, lol.
    i have no idea how bill managed to put up with her as long as he did.:hysterical:
  10. Techless

    Techless Patron Meritorious

    Good thread!

    And to again clarify what I have said - I definitely wasn't implying anything to be absolute true/factual - I was more just bringing up what I'd seen and heard - to folks here on ESMB and it seems to indicate some serious tie-ins, that perhaps hadn't been known/discussed here, as some is fairly recent.

    I appreciate everyone's comments on, thus far.

    What Bill is, appears to a be a Scn, but NOT 'corp' Scn...(?!?!?) I guess a bunch of these FZ folks are pretty adamant about making the distinction. I can understand that. In some other thing Bill mentioned, Captain Bill was apparently great friend of LR, so the whole RO thing is 'supposed to be' original tech, before alteration (by DM or CIA or ?: take your pick). I'm sure others know facts here which I do not...

    I really don't care too much about the distinction 'cause it's all to be looked at suspiciously as far as I'm concerned. Yet I can understand why anyone involved would be very emphatic about making the distinction one way or the other.

    At current: I lost any since of what is true blue vs. squirrel in Scn -as it's all so twisted into many different sects at this point. But mostly not too concerned about it anyway.

    I'm mainly interested in the fact, that these connections were mentioned at all, just adding another 40 layers of super secret KaKa to the mix...and also adds many questions to a LOT of what the project Camelot and project Avalon are all about: dissinfo or true disclosure?!? I'm leaving it to me to make any conclusions about it all, but thus far, there appear to be some very legit 'speculations'. God knows how to really sort through that all, but it is to me very interesting, as I keep saying.

    Apparently there was some huge rift between Bill and Kerry - which they described as coming from several different entities, with the last being corp Scn. They talked about being third partied and all and why they split cause of 'efforts' to destroy them. Now they are back together and all happy fuzzy warm. It seems to me that Kerry is still angry (and probably freaked) by the whole thing so I cannot pass any judgement on their basic characters at this point, yet believe whatever their previous success was: came from their polarized personalities. One did get: opposing sides on same discussion - which I think is a good thing.

    As far as the Ingo and Dane thing: I do not have a clue, but mainly got into cause apparently Ingo was the prime character in developing the whole remote viewing thing, in Scn and then in the secret gov stuff - and has stated about people that have definitely been to mars, moon, bla, bla by this method. Doesn't matter to me at this point whether its true or not, but definitely believe that SOMEONE would want to explore this possibility, which we all know has been an 'ability' as mentioned by good old LR and gov projects in cold war, etc.

    All a setup or not? Could be or maybe not. There is a ton of stuff they are putting out there (Camelot/Avalon) - some goes into pretty crazy/silly as mentioned prior in this thread. But they do not seem to be 'shutting out' any particular topic and putting whatever they can get at, as far as an interviewee, out there. I think another good thing upon initial glance.

    I will be curious to get others ideas here as anyone decides to keep checking into and such - rather time consuming I realize, then again: I really don't have much of a life anyway!! SO, not to worry that I'm shrugging off other more important things at this point ;)

    I'm also now very much into checking out all these future technologies that we apparently have already had now for 50-60 years...from the creators of such and what can be found out there in internet land. Some really cool stuff: zero-point energy and all that, but from the designers/researchers of these things and not the conspiracy side of it. It's cool. (Anybody here check out the Mark Rodin stuff??)

    I'll stop babbling now, hope I am making some sense here?!?
  11. OhMG

    OhMG Patron Meritorious

    Yes it is interesting. However, nothing workable from it.
  12. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    Some time ago I was trying to find a video interview of mine
    and stumbled across a link to myself and Inelia both having
    connections to Bill Ryan.

    Below Bill Ryan gives a long interview with Inelia who people
    here would remember as "Lovenightsky".
  13. freethinker

    freethinker Crusader

    It's all about the wins man.:biggrin:

  14. In present time

    In present time Gold Meritorious Patron

    1982 CW Scientology Hearings - George Meister - Day 3 Fifty minutes in, the testimony of George Meister regarding a letter from his attorney's wife, updating their attempts to solve his daughters murder/suicide? aboard the Apollo. "The crew of the famous ship have tried to make things very difficult for Jack, with various government authorities, including the Senate and the White House."
  15. In present time

    In present time Gold Meritorious Patron

    I can totally boss ashtrays around now and it only cost me $150,000.
  16. Vittorio

    Vittorio Patron Meritorious

    I believe that there are people who have spiritual abilities and may have met a couple, but they don't sit and talk about it for the best part of two hours. I've heard similar in and outside of Scientology and there was very little to back it up.
  17. Vittorio

    Vittorio Patron Meritorious

    I'm glad that someone took the time to post about Project Camelot.

    Inelia claims to have had no past lives here on earth, but in her story on ESMB ( she claims to have been audited at Saint Hill in a previous life. She also claims that she raises the tone levels of different environments and people but didn't seem able to do this at Plymouth Org.

    Some of her observations about the Org's seem reasonable as do some of her posts here, but her current incarnation is at odds with her previous incarnation. Her credentials have been called out here; and here;

    She also seems to have some very high power stories; many of them over her extraordinary lifetime, but they seem to lack details. The same is the case with Erin "Rothschild". The truth is in the detail. Do they have the paperwork or people to back up any of their stories? In the world of the paranormal there are many who have had countless unusual experiences, can back them up as best they can and have many others who have shared these experiences. The Sallie's House haunting is one such case as is Cathy O'Briens story to a certain degree.

    Reading some of Inelia's online writing, again it lacks a lot of detail and seems to be about planetary emotion and tone levels, yet lacks any great originality and insight. Anyone could have written it. She doesn't seem to have any indepth knowledge on any subject and has no comparative narrative's to wove her thoughts into. Look at this blog here as an example; and this;

    ...and her addiction to TV?

    I would take someone who has quietly and without publicity gone about and done great things for others over those who endlessly claim spiritual powers and enlightenment but whose lives lack any detail, any signs of increased knowledge and is inconsistent. Sounds like another cult Terril.
  18. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    In another thread on the Defense of Hubbard, Alle G asked:

    My answer is below, and I decided to cross-post my answer is this thread as well where it is more on-topic.

    In the article I linked to at the end of that post it says:

    The article has some interesting stuff as well about the relationship between the Moon cult and former CIA Director, George Bush. :yes:
  19. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    Not everyone considers all auditing recalls are factual. I certainly don't
    insist my own are factual. She has changed her viewpoint, her prerogative.

    This is unknown from the data given. She writes very positively about
    other staff which possibly indicates she did. However no where in her time frame in CO$ has anyone anywhere set an org on a permanent uptrend.

    Her credentials are not being called out here! Some of what she posts
    is far out and its no suprise she has been questioned. This is an interview with her
    where she is asked to clarify some matters from an interview she gave. Here is the answer to the last question :-

    “No trouble at all. If I can answer something I will, but it will be my reality, which is not necessarily shared by others. I always respect a person’s own reality to disbelieve something they cannot embrace. Their higher self is the ultimate authority about what a person needs to resonate, or not, with at any one time. And, on the same score, it is also their higher self which gives them the goosebumps when they need to take notice of something important."

    Here again she is not being called out! Someone posted on a conspiracy type thread that lots of info has actors playing parts and referred to a particular video
    where a person not Inelia was shown. The indicated point in the video does not show Inelia~ thus is fake. She is shown later on this video. Having met her I
    know her when I see her.

    What addiction? She mentions that she thought the film "Avatar" was wonderful.
    I believe its the biggest grossing movie ever and many people also find it

    Well I guess you are not a fan of Jesus who traveled and proselytized
    broadly in his neck of the woods and upturned the tables of the money lenders
    in the Temple.

    I consider Inelia is completely honest about what she believes.

    Anyone who describes me as adorable on this forum is clearly
    someone of great discernment.
  20. Vittorio

    Vittorio Patron Meritorious

    Terril she probably does believe in what she say's.

    She made some insightful posts here in regards to Scientology.

    Me and Inelia have common interests in many subjects, but I personally don't believe in Project Camelot or many of the stories in the interviews.

    And btw I'm Jewish, so no, do not believe in Jesus.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2013

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