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Discussion in 'L Ron Hubbard' started by afaceinthecrowd, Jan 18, 2011.

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  1. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron

    Thanks Uncover. :yes:

    What Ogs & I were referring to was several of the Posts I made years ago (at the beginning of this Thread or Linked to in those Posts) re: the recording and production of the Power of Source album--or El Ron's POS album:biggrin: To Wit...

    El Ron had a then State of the Art, portable multi track tape recorder (Studer) and mixing board (NEVE) custom built, which was used for recording POS. It was recorded "flat" and then mixed "flat" into a Master Tape that was used for the transfer recording to Lacquer Master Discs. El Ron, against the strong and repeated advice's of top Hollywood Mastering Engineers INSISTED that the transfer be made "flat" (dumbstick) to the Master Discs. Despite that World Class equipment El Ron had, Hisself was ignorant as a recording engineer and had also used inferior/improper Mics and recorded in a "live" and acoustically terrible decrepit movie theater without any baffling.

    The resulting record, said the engineers, would sound like a complete p.o.s. when played back on even the finest stereo equipment. This was due to the fact the initial recording was not only amateur but that without knowledgeable mixing it would bang the stylus around in the groves, rendering the played back album even worse in sound than the master type. The professional engineers offered to remix the master tape so that it could the be engineered during transfer to make the master discs capable creating passable final pressings (albums) that sounded at least somewhat decent and were as playable as possible.

    El Ron, of course, knew better than these "Hollywood Birds", commanded that it all be done Hisself's way and the result was--from just a purely technical standpoint alone--one of the worst (and, perhaps the worst) 33-1/3 albums ever made. :laugh:

    Face:)
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2016
  2. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    It was a common pattern. I remember when El Ron, in the later part of the 80's, made the incredible discovery that there were these things called "computers", and that they could be used to help run an org...
     
  3. Free Being Me

    Free Being Me Crusader

    I am laughing so hard I hurt myself. That story is hilarious. :thumbsup: :hysterical:
     
  4. uncover

    uncover Gold Meritorious Patron

    I am aware of this story, but there are some outpoints in it.

    Let's have a look at the album cover:

    [​IMG]


    Assuming that this picture shows the recording session, technically we see the following:

    on the desk at the left is a tape machine. There are 3 cables conneced to the tape machine, one is the power cable, and the other two are for the audio signal left and right.

    Now if we look at the backside of the album, we will find written:

    [​IMG]

    Recorded on Studer B62 Stereo

    A Studer B62 - with transport-frame - looks like this:

    [​IMG]

    This matches with the look of the tape-machine on the album cover.

    Even if pathological lying Hubbard ever bought a real multitrack*-recorder (what I doubt) I am convinced, that it was NOT used for recording the PoS-album.
    * 8-tracks or more

    Now let's go on. Looking at the mixing desk this is never ever a NEVE-console. It looks more like an american made public-adress-mixer. But anyhow, the brand doesn't really matter, what is more important is the cabling. At the left side we can see three cables, one for the power supply and two for the stereo output (to the Studer B62).

    On the right side we can see odd cabling, some cables appear to be connected to the bottom of the mixer, maybe inserts ? It appears that there are only six microphones connected to the desk. Even if the other cables were for microphones, this would be 12 microphones - a little bit less for 10 musicians.

    A professional P.A.- or live-recording- setup in 1974 would look like this:
    Drums: 1x bassdrum, 1x snare, 3x toms and 2x overhead mics. Bassdrum, snare and toms would have had so called noise gates in the insert points and the drum mix would have been recorded on 2 tracks (if not enough tracks would have been available).
    Every other instrument would have had its own microphone and recording channel. In a P.A.-situation they would have had noise gates too.

    So we would have seven microphones for the drums and nine microphones for the rest of the band. Alltogether 16 microphones, which the mixing desk could handle. But they are not there, they were not used. (The Rolling Stones Mobile was equipped with 24 tracks).

    This let's me assume that the recording was made like a recording for classical music in the 50's - but classical music was recorded in an appropriate acoustic environment, and.....:omg: and.....:omg: ..... and the sound engineer never ever would have used headphones for mixing :omg:


    So what happened back then probably was six - inappropriate - microphones in a shitty hall with a mixing desk for public adress with no signal processors... the stereo signal directly recorded on 2 tracks with a deaf El Con Hubbard mixing with headphones.

    Such circumstances have a name: worst-case-scenario

    You have to make a difference between the initial recording, the mixing and the transfer recording.

    If the initial recording is a pain in the ass and not done on seperate tracks you are unable to improve it later in the studio.

    State of the art in 1974 was that the music was recorded on individual tracks - this was violated.
    Mixing was done later, independent of the recording - this was violated.
    Final mixing was never done with headphones - this was violated.
    In the final mix normally signal processors like limiters or noise gates were used - I can´t see any, and because there was no multitrack recording, the recording session was at once the final mix.
    And the biggest mistake: a deaf and unskilled asshole was hired as the sound engineer.

    Under these circumstances there is no chance than that the final product becomes only a

    Piece of Sh*t

    A POS will always be only a POS, you can't improve it, you can only make it worse. Here we come to the transfer recording for the cutting. Normally you would take the final recording (master tape) and bring it to the professionals and rely on them that they will do the right things for cutting.

    This means that the master tape will be further processed by the engineers e.g. bass will be reduced, treble will be increased (according to RIAA-specs), limiters will be applied that the maximum deflection of the cutting head will not be exceeded etc. During this process the sound quality of the master tape can even be improved.

    If someone doesn´t trust the professionals someone could do this processing on his own and go with an already processed tape for cutting - but only fools would do that.

    That means:
    To an already shitty master tape was applied an inapproriate processing for cutting and with that shit² someone went to the pros and wanted to have it cut.... without their standard processing.

    And to correct the inappropriate processing for cutting, and only this, was offered by the professionals.

    They wouldn´t be able to do a real remix of the shit, because there was no multitrack-tape - only the unprofessional shitty stereo-recording (= master tape) from the movie theater on the B62.

    Because it fits so good, here some of El Con Hubbards words:
    El Con Sucker at target 2, could you hear this ?
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
  5. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron

    Wow! Thank you for taking the time to make this Post and explain all this. You obviously know your stuff!

    As far as I know, El Ron did have the multi trac and board but obviously it was not used on this recording and may have come along later.

    What was related to me about pro sound engineers was that they wanted to do the best they could to make corrections at the Disc Mastering point and El Ron said no and that they said that if El Ron wanted anything other than a p.o.s. he should have the Apollo Stars re-recorded in a professional studio, with pro equipment and pro engineers which Hisself did not want to do. Hisself wanted the Mastering done his way.
     
  6. strativarius

    strativarius Comfortably Numb

    [​IMG]

    I remember seeing this photo a year or so ago, and what strikes me every time I see it is how absolutely delighted everyone looks to be there. Yes, they are all having a really good time.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
  7. Bost_Bobby

    Bost_Bobby Patron with Honors

    Yep. You're right on the money. I have not listened to the album on a home system but have heard a couple of cuts on YouTube which are not in stereo. Is the album in true stereo or mono? Do you think they did any bouncing or overdubs or do you think they recorded the band live as they did in the early sixties and prior?

    It's hard to believe that even a knucklehead would record and transfer to vinyl the complete recording dry with no additional EQ or effects but from what I have read that seems to be the case here.

    I still have my old Tascam MK 488 eight track in which I got my recordings to sound pretty decent and some of them sounding semi-professional but I had to do a whole lot of tweaking to get it there. And by semi-professional I mean George Martin 1963 :)

    Sometimes I had to do a bit of bouncing when I needed more than 8 tracks which with a cassette master you had to push the high end up quite a bit on those tracks in some cases, and that is just basic EQ. Otherwise it would have just sounded like mud.

    Has there been anybody who was there throughout the whole process who has told the story of how everything went down? I would sure like to read that.

    Oh, and I give the old man credit for at least having the headphones on correctly.:thumbsup:
     
  8. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron

    The original album was in stereo. I was told by someone that was present that it was recorded "Live" and that the room was "raw" with no acoustical aids.

    The transfer straight to vinyl with no EQ or effects was El Ron's specific and unalterable orders, according to someone that I knew that was there. According to this person, the pro sound engineers offered to make Master Lacquer Discs with their "fixes" for El Ron to play and hear, which Hisself declined and insisted it was to be done Hisself's way.

    Obviously, I was mistaken that it was recorded multi track with a Neve board...I apologize for my error.

    It is quite evident that I am not an expert (or even a semi proficient or half-assed amateur) when it comes to sound recording and engineering. I've tried to relate this story, as was told to me by people that were there, to the best of my ability and recollection.

    Face:)
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
  9. Bost_Bobby

    Bost_Bobby Patron with Honors

    Good God! Did he think that he was going to make it all go right with just command intention or some such crap? I suppose that when " Johnny Comes Marching Home" was recorded I should not have expected too much in the area of quality.

    And don't apologize. I followed what you were saying. I just have a little home recording setup. I'm no professional or genius on this either.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
  10. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron

    Thanks, Bost Bobby. :yes:

    Let me restate re: El Ron thought Hisself was gonna "make it all go right with just command intention"...I think El Ron KNEW WITH CERTAINTY Hisself was "right" and was gonna "command intend" until everyone else "fognited" Hisself was "right".:whistling:
     
  11. Ted

    Ted Gold Meritorious Patron


    The picture is the picture. The recording is the recording. The picture may or may not be of any recording or mixing session.

    I just have to say how F'ing happy everyone looks. Production is the basis of moral and all that happy, manipulative horse-shit. <sarcasm/> It looks like a precursor to the famous picture of miserable looking staff soliciting TWTH. Actually, they are just standing there looking miserable, speaking to no one. <Sorry, I can't search for it.>

    And, in a moment of free association, I am reminded of this little ditty:

    Nowhere Man
     
  12. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron

    Yep! :thumbsup::yes:

    What F'n mystifies me is--according to Laurel Watson Sullivan, LRH Pers PRO at that time--that photo was specifically selected by the CommodeDoor to be the POS Album jacket cover.:ohmy:

    Holy Effen Ess...Not only was El Ron's hearing F'n all F'd up but, honestly Folks, just what the F did Hisself "see" in that photo that others were supposed to "see", too.:confused2::duh:
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
  13. Bost_Bobby

    Bost_Bobby Patron with Honors

    Well....he has a very serious look on his face and he IS the only one looking at the camera (as it should be). No one can be seen smiling or laughing during this very serious project because they then would be jokers and degraders. So all is as it should be. Mystery solved.
     
  14. Little David

    Little David Silver Meritorious Patron

    This discussion of LRH's recording prowess made me think of his Clearsound audio con, Scientology is still "using" and promoting it in the new Scientology Media Productions facility:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
  15. uncover

    uncover Gold Meritorious Patron

    exactly my opinion..... that would have been the only solution out of this mess:
    a professional studio, with multitrack recording, signal processors, a seperated recording room, loudspeakers ..... and El Con Sucker in a soundproof cage.
     
  16. uncover

    uncover Gold Meritorious Patron

    Oh boy you missed so much. Here is your chance to download the full album in 320kbps:
    http://digitalmeltd0wn.blogspot.co.at/2013/02/the-apollo-stars-power-of-source-1974.html

    And here is what they write there that you missed:

    Cool sound, isn't it ?

    As you can read above: stereo

    What the hell are you talking about ? Bouncing ? Overdubs ?

    Elron Elray invented sound recording 75 Million years ago while listening to the sound of DC-8 flying with thetans with glykol in their lungs..... or so..... And at this time there was no overdubbing or bouncing used or needed. To apply this today would be squirreling....

    As I wrote above: live recording like classic music in the 50's.

    Think about a movie theatre in portugal with a stage in it. Then put there 10 musicians with their instruments and amps. In the middle sits the drummer. It will look like this:

    [​IMG]


    Now take six microphones and place them randomly around this crowd. Plug them into a mixing desk, turn the knobs randomly in proven Elron-Elray-recording-tech and record it on 2-tracks - that's it, end of cycle.

    Ok, you can say now: "Hey I can only count 9 musicians in this picture, where is the tenth ?"

    Ok, ok, the tenth musician..... hmmm.... he is there.... a little bit apart.... ready to make his long awaited appearance.... here he is, together with his instrument:


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
  17. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron

    GREAT FIND, Uncover!:thumbsup::clap:
     
  18. Bost_Bobby

    Bost_Bobby Patron with Honors

    Thank you so much for the link. However I'm debating whether I want to use up any space for that album. I'm thinking maybe The Partridge Family instead? I guess I should and listen to it through headphones just to say I've experienced it.

    "What the hell are you talking about? Bouncing? Overdubs?" That made me laugh so hard that I think I may have burst open my old hernia surgeries. If I end up going to the ER tonight you are splitting my co-pay 50/50.

    So Ron put together the largest garage band in history? There's another first for the old man. Trailblazer!!
     
  19. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    But, but, but!!!! If the head mix-master Sir ElRon - believed those axioms he wrote - that exact place, time, event and form=truth - of course he would want it raw! It's the truth of what happened. Get it? It wouldn't be clear sound if you monkeyed around, tweaking this and that - then it would be Alter-ised sound. Anybody can alter is sound. But present it in it's unadulterated form? Those songs are going to rattle the rafters of the universe for quadzillions of years.

    Jeeze.

    Clay tables of the axioms for all of you.

    Mimsey
     
  20. Ogsonofgroo

    Ogsonofgroo Crusader

    Heh. State of the art and cult will haz to hire a real person to evedn turn the stuff on imho, poor sucker, whom ever he/she/it may be. No doubt worthy of a six-pak and a pile of popcorn to watch the further flailings of a dying con-job.
    No idea, between this farcical DM dinky-stroke, and John Mappins new tv station ( lololololol), cult's purchase of the American TV station, all the fun stuff..... hell, watching this is way better than self-flagilation, or poking my brain out with a knitting needle.
    Golden Era Studios did an upgrade ages ago, so, where's all the fun and wonderful stuff DM and cultists wish to lay upon the world's media? *crickets*

    Nice recording studios, to what avail? Anyone other than the scilongese, is there anyone even close to mainstream fame that has done any work there? Hmmm, Chili Bean/pathetic rapper, can has some lurves? *crickets*

    Yup, all part and parcel with the inner visions of ol' ERon, well worth paying some attention to imho.


    :cheers: & :drama: