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Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by ILove2Lurk, Sep 21, 2014.
Can we please keep a lid on the inter-personal arguments?
It wasn't meant to become an argument, but it kind of grew into one ... I apologise.
I apologize to Mike Rinder for getting it wrong. Sorry, Mike. Maybe Val Lisa said your name to me and called you the Director of USGO as a joke because there was a conflict between something the CMO was doing and the GO was doing at the time, then afterwards, every time I heard her say Mike (Little), I thought she meant Mike Rinder. That's the only scenario I can think of that might explain.
IDK. I am sure NOW that I got it wrong, though.
What I wrote demonstrates how it is to work with someone who saw the world in black and white, good hats and bad hats and how their influence can effect someone else. I'm leaving the post the way it is because I knew plenty of people who got temporarily caught up in that sort of insanity and it is a glimpse of how things appeared at the USGO to an 18 year old who did not grow up in scientology.
Clearly, if anyone besides me thought Mike Rinder was in the GO before, there should be no doubts at all anymore from anyone that he was not, until it became OSA. So maybe it's good it came up.
Janis Grady is a sweetheart. Thank you, Janis, for your patience and the way you calmly addressed this with me. You're so cool.
If you sent Janis here, Hobbs, thanks for doing that. It was a wise choice.
ADDED: DChoice, if you would be so kind as to post a portion of this or link it to wherever you posted my other post on Mike Rinder's blog, it would be greatly appreciated.
Choc ices $3
Ya, Denny was a thoroughly pleasant gentleman. I always thought, believed, him to have been Indian heritage (Asian Indian from that country) he spoke perfect English but with a very slight Asian accent.
He and Cathy were on staff with me in Melbourne '62-'64. He did the early SHSBC '62 and returned to Melbourne as the tech wizzzzz and became Org Sec . . . . Cathy was DofP.
Denny was a very gracious man, while Cathy was wont to have opinions that misled her from optimum relationships.
Thanks. You knew him better than I did, and your idea of his heritage seems more likely than mine. Cathy . . . , er, yes.
I knew Ziggy very well.
If we're talking to same Ziggy - at CC on La Brea mid 70's & not much later died in his sleep.
. . .
I'm slightly flawed because I don't subscribe to automatic "fast flow forgiveness"
for high-level Int base execs who leave after they were part of the inner circle
and participated in all the secrecy and crazy shore story invention for decades.
I began this thread to document some of the public statements made by those
exes, specifically Marty and Mike. Though Mike is celebrated today, and maybe
he should be, I won't be celebrating him until he tells "what he knew and when
he knew it."
Mike and Marty found out that there were no upper OT levels around 1987-8,
but sat on the revelation for nearly thirty years. Cost me about $32,000 for the
"OT 9&10 package" and a divorce. Much more actually.
I wish they had spoken sooner. This is information we should have known.
Mike Rinder saysNovember 13, 2017 at 12:42 pm
None of this is invented.
You should perhaps pay more attention to the people who were actually there and spend less time trying to defend the indefensible.
I was part of the armed raid that went to the secret property in Newberry Springs to get the files that Pat Broeker supposedly had of the “OT levels beyond VIII” but there were no such thing…
What the old OT levels “prove” is absolutely nothing. They are not OT IX to XV – don’t believe me, read up on what L. Ron Hubbard claimed about OT levels beyond OT VIII.
Reference: My parody of what might have gone on is here: From the Cutting Room Floor
. . .
Mike Rinder saysNovember 13, 2017 at 3:01 pm
I did not know that the filing cabinets and papers gotten in that raid contained nothing. Miscavige pretenses for years that he had gotten everything he needed and it would be released in good time. It was Marty Rathbun that eventually put all the pieces together for me after I had left. Including making sense of conversations I witnessed Miscavige having with or about Ray Mithoff.
So Mike admits, in writing, that he engaged in an act of armed robbery?
This may not seem very charitable but reading this thread again I hope Val Lisa came to a sticky end, at least as far as her role in the CofS was concerned. She's clearly caused a lot of misery to some good people.
. . .
Here's another "smoking gun," of sorts, that confirms again what I've been
saying for years and years since I arrived here on the message board. That Marty,
Mike, Heber, and the whole top tier of SO executives knew all about the scam
after about 1988 or so and willfully chose to continue the lies and fraud. This
is despite what they claim now. And this is why so many of them are locked
up and incommunicado for the rest of their lives.
Excerpt from Steve Hall article on Tony'sIn the advice, LRH said that he had been Lucifer, whose name meant “bringer of light.” He said that Jesus was a lover of young boys, etc. After we read the advice, COB wanted to know what Dan and I thought about it. We didn’t really know what to say (as per usual, a fact which drove COB nuts) since with COB anytime he asked you a question, you were on the edge of a precipice. Answer wrong, and you could expect instant retaliation and likely punishment. In that kind of situation, something vague was usually a safer response. So we both just said we thought it was “really cool.” COB questioned us a bit more to verify we had a positive reaction to it. We said we thought it was “definitely OT.” After he saw our reaction was “positive,” he looked at Marc Yager as if to say, “See, I told you so you, you stupid fuck.”
Fair use from: More proof that L. Ron Hubbard . . .
I wrote a fictional "words from Marty's mouth" satire a while back,
but I think it conveys the whole behind-the-scenes story quite well.
Link to my post: Marty's candid outtakes from the cutting room floor
They all knew and chose to keep the scam going after 1986-88. They
were not dupes. We were the dupes.
Hmmmm...this is interesting. Appears to have posted on Tony O's site on the same date Lurk posted here.
In it, Steve Hall has this to say of Hubbard:
Tony, I read your post about the new LRH criminal/con man hoping to pick up where the original LRH criminal/con man left off.
He goes on from there to authenticate the original Anti Christ OT VIII, Hubbard's Affirmations that shocked and appalled Hall and, finally, that Hubbard's biography was an impossible task due to Hubbard's conduct.
In short, Hall has zero good to say about Hubbard.
When did this change?
AFAIK Hall was a staunch supporter of Hubbard Good/Miscavige Bad. He claimed to be the first whistleblower and pro Hubbard.
I was under the impression that FriendsOfLRH.org and scientology-cult.com and iscientology.com and savescientology.com, etc., were all designed and implemented by Hall.
Also, I ran across this on scientology-cult.com from January 2010.
Marty and I go way back together. He is going to allow me to post stories on his site. I consider it a privilege. I am going to try to keep my ego out of it and just tell the truth, as difficult as it may be. I need to tell the truth about the last days. I am no longer connected in any way with the current Church of Scientology but I cannot abandon all of LRH’s efforts to help people and clear this planet. Till his death he lived Scientology.
I was under the impression that by 2013 his story of Hubbard trying to suicide by electrocution had disaffected him from Hubbard.
So, it appears that Hall poses as a Hubbard supporter but isn't and that Sarge appeared to not be a Hubbard supporter but was.