Some OT III debunking has been debunked

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by Hubbardianen, Jan 18, 2011.

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  1. Hubbardianen

    Hubbardianen Patron

    There is a cover of Xemu together with the words "macabre" and "Invaders of the Fifth Dimension" which has been suggested to have been an inspiration for Hubbards OT III story and his scientology space opera. Hubbards e.g. talks about "the Marcabs" (derived from macabre?) and "The Fifth Invaders" (derived from Invaders of the Fifth Dimension?) in his lectures and books, as well as Xenu.

    On Philadelphia Doctorate Course (from 1952) I have found that he talks both about "Fifth Invaders" and "Markab" (or Marchab, a star with the real name Alpha Pegasi) so he could not have gotten those ideas from that cover since the comic figure Xemu first appeared in magazines in Nov 1960.

    The name Xenu is of course still somewhat open to speculation.

    Attached Files:

  2. Auditor's Toad

    Auditor's Toad Clear as Mud

    Is your point that the ot 3 stuff hubtard came up with is, after all, the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

    Surely you jest !

    ....and there is so much evidence that so much of what hubtard 'came up with' he flat stole from others, issued as 'standurd tek' and called hisself source.
    Perhaps what he was really source of was bat shit crazy.

    But, oh, wasn't he a closet queen cross dresser?
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2011
  3. Auditor's Toad

    Auditor's Toad Clear as Mud

    "LRH started a new movement and discovered many new things. Focus on that. "

    Yes. Billion year contracts with pay of $20 week with minimal care.


    RPFs RPF

    Childrens RPF

    Childrens Rpfs RPF

    Introspection RD ( ask Lisa McPherson..of..sorry you can't... they killed her )

    Surely there is more the batshit crazy old bastard created.

    Uh, how about the wife he forgot about?

    How many children did he have ? SEVEN? Where are they now?

    Should he still be source on all the tek he stole from others?

    Help me here folks. Lots of other deaths, misery, and dirty tricks.

    Paulatte Cooper? Throwing Mary Sue under the bus? Gabe? Who else?

    Oh, and where is Heber?
  4. Free Being Me

    Free Being Me Crusader

    Your point being L Con didn't use a comic book to create part of his fraud? That's a relief.
  5. Hubbardianen

    Hubbardianen Patron

    Auditors Toad,

    I don't like the things you have written either so don't worry. The CoS do have some problems that need to be fixed.

    I'm focusing on the parts of the tech that works and try to defend that.

    Anything that is bad is bad or anything that doesn't work doesn't simply work. I don't defend that.

    I only defend what works and is good. Such as parts of the tech: Touch assist, auditing procedures, study tech, some major axioms etc.
  6. Auditor's Toad

    Auditor's Toad Clear as Mud

    Thank you !

    I had forgotten there WAS a bright side !
  7. Auditor's Toad

    Auditor's Toad Clear as Mud

    I would be interested in what part or parts of the tek you might feel, in your words, "work".

    Oh, the study tech was nor something old hubturd came up with - he stole it lock stock and barrel.

    Many, many, many 'auditing' procedures he did not originate.

    But to cut to the short version : can you point out one clear per the LRH DMSMH definition or one OT per the current chart... say OT 7 ?

    Just one of each....please
  8. Auditor's Toad

    Auditor's Toad Clear as Mud

    "LRH started a new movement and discovered many new things. Focus on that "

    And I may change my siggy to :

    LRH started a new cult while utterly ruining many lives and destroying families as he went out of control bat shit crazy.
    Oh, and he was VERY ot... spent his last days ( if not years ) bablbing inchorently curled up in a fetal position with soiled diapers. Those 'shots' he got didn't help much, huh?
  9. Free Being Me

    Free Being Me Crusader

    Let me get this straight. A comic book about Xenu as *Source* for oatee 3 isn't credible but L Con (a science fiction writer) dreams up Xenu as *Source* for oatee 3 and that's workable "tek" worthy of defense because it works. Comic books are for general amusement, a con man see's "you" as his amusement. Unfortunately, the con lives on this very moment.
  10. Ogsonofgroo

    Ogsonofgroo Crusader

    I'm sort of chuckling that anyone would think pointing out that old Marvel comic was trying to 'de-bunk' OTIII lololol, like that bit of LRon drivel is even worthy of consideration in the first place~ Hey, the old windbag pulled the whole thing out of his butt, just listen to his infamous lecture where he tells the Xenu story, good lord how can anyone with half a fuctioning brain take that even remotely serious is a wonder to me.
    Sorry for the de-rail, but SHEESH!
  11. Auditor's Toad

    Auditor's Toad Clear as Mud

    Hubbardianen , in all honesty, I extremely suggest you ( and anyone else ) who still "believes" just avail yourself to the internet and invest a mere fraction of the time into investigating scientology as you have invested into the subject as taught in the "church".

    At some point from the multitude of sources some "tilts" might start showing their ugly little heads.

    Like what has happened to the firt umpteen clears - uh, declared?
    What happened to old St Hill staff - uh, 98% declared?

    Big names all along the way. Big deal. Friend of LRH. Major technical contributions. Years of loyal service. And, my God, overnight they are an SP.
    How could LRH have missed that? How could the tech miss that?

    And on and on and on it goes. Go do the research. Read the coroner report ( You might to skip the part about liver damage consistent with an alcoholic). Read the Will.( Majorly revised 1 day before his death . Read the court cases. Read it all.

    Do your own research. Do you own thinking.

    You'll then really know what "works" - and what doesn't "work"
  12. Smilla

    Smilla Ordinary Human

    Hopefully, in the fullness of time you'll reach a point in your growth where you'll not need anybody to tell you what to think or do. But, given your nick, that time hasn't come yet.

    But it will come, and then you'll be free in a way that means something, because you got there through your own efforts.
  13. Free Being Me

    Free Being Me Crusader

    A.T. (Guido) isn't it funny (or maybe not) that when a post of $cientology abuses is stated (incomplete list but a good start) refuting $cientology as "workable tek" the poster (Hubbardianen) is insisting some workability is there to defend.

    If I might add:

    Fair Game

    Hubbardianen, the tek is an illusion, a card trick to keep you in $cientology. I hope you come up with something more serious than a comic as a basis for debunking the debunkers.
  14. Mystic

    Mystic Banned

    Your buddy Xemu was presented by Marvel Comics in 1962, a year before the dark apparition being Hubbard drugged himself into Xenu-may-be-spelled x e m u.
  15. Auditor's Toad

    Auditor's Toad Clear as Mud

    FB "A.T. (Guido) isn't it funny (or maybe not) ..."

    I respect your opinion. The "Guido" is in reference to myself and my often rough and tumble way ( others say ) of expressing myself.

    I get you see something somehow offensive in what I intend only as poking fun at myself.

    Help me here..I'll delete it if I missed something.
  16. Hubbardianen

    Hubbardianen Patron

    It's true that the attributes of a clear or OT VIII were blown out of proportions by Hubbard. But there are gains on those levels as thousands of people have testified.

    Here are some of those gains (from memory):

    "Being able to communicate much more easily", "too many wins to list", "feels like sandbags that have been released", "my whole trip up the bridge has been priceless, I remember several past lives", "my creative level has increased many times" etc etc.

    There have been lots of reported gains, as well as exteriorisations, which indicates that we are spiritual beings with no location in space and time.
  17. Student of Trinity

    Student of Trinity Silver Meritorious Patron

    Markab is the centuries-old Arabic name, inherited by western astronomy, for the star whose modern label is Alpha Pegasi. There has never been any question of Hubbard either inventing the name or stealing it from a comic.

    Theosophy, popular in the 1930's, included an elaborate pseudo-history of successive 'root races' dominating the Earth. While I believe they were all supposed to have been native to Earth, they were mostly not human. I think that a succession of alien invader forces would have seemed like an obvious ingredient in any 1950's sci-fi mythology.There were so many different rival alien mythologies floating around, it would have seemed lame to have only one Invader Force — like starting a superhero comic about a world containing only one superhero. Everyone knows there are dozens of them. So if Hubbard copied his Invader Forces from somewhere, I doubt it would even have been stealing, so much as just jumping on the bandwagon.

    Xenu is another story, apparently. He may have stolen this one all on his own.
  18. Free Being Me

    Free Being Me Crusader

    Don't delete anything A.T. :thumbsup: I'm not at all offended. :) My funny or not comment was directed at the abuses of $ci, not you.

    On a more fun note, I'm waiting for Hub to post his response.
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2011
  19. Auditor's Toad

    Auditor's Toad Clear as Mud

    Not to invalidate the wins of another but let me share some wins and gains..

    Too many wins to list!
    Feels like weights have blown off me !
    Priceless experience!
    Most incredible experience thin lifetime !
    My creatives levels have beem greatly expanded !
    And I am exterior !

    And those were from sex last night.

    Just saying.

    ( OK even with all my J & D credits I had to leave out - "and I remembered several my past wives!" :roflmao:)
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2011
  20. Mystic

    Mystic Banned

    The idea that a 'cognition' is a "gain' and that 'gains' are valuable, well, this hits the ol' nail right on the head. The Hubbard thing isolated mind procedures which would produce the cognition phenomena over and over giving the illusion of "gains". We found out this is all illusion by direct experience. I even went to the total end of that so-called "bridge" and found what was there.

    No one ever needs to go there unless they are so hooked into the scientology implant like I was. Just step out of the Hubbard distortion NOW.