Special Needs for Second Generation Ex-Cult Members

Discussion in 'Life After Scientology' started by Free to shine, Jul 22, 2016.

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  1. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

  2. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

  3. aurora

    aurora Patron

    Hey, I just wanted to say as a 2nd gen (I wrote that buzzfeed post, thank you for sharing it!), that perhaps at least some of us 2nd gen-ers have an easier time in the "wog" world because we didn't choose scientology. We don't have as large of sunk costs, mentally or financially.

    I don't know how many of my struggles are related to having grown up in scn, how many are related to undiagnosed or late diagnosed mental illness (or whatever name you want to call it), and how many are just run-of-the-mill, every day human struggles. Overall, people tell me I'm fairly well adjusted. :shrug:

    If I had to guess what circumstances might lead to one person adjusting better than another, I would suggest the following circumstances as likely:

    1. They grew up in an area with a smaller public and had non-scn friends.
    2. How much they felt like a part of scn varied over the years.
    3. They didn't find themselves with much in common with other scientologists outside of the obvious, so they weren't that inclined to spend time outside of the org with a lot of them.
    4. They didn't have too many ethics handlings. (Or possibly, so much that they walked away early and were never "handled".)
    5. They scored very poorly on the Leadership Test.
  4. CommunicatorIC

    CommunicatorIC @IndieScieNews on Twitter

    30 Signs You Grew Up In Scientology

    30 Signs You Grew Up In Scientology.

    Buzzfeed: 30 Signs You Grew Up In Scientology


    * * * * * BEGIN EXCERPT * * * * *

    1. You’re fluent in Scientologese and know “wogs” are basically muggles and “handling your MEST” means cleaning your room.


    • Good: uptone, upstat, keyed out, theta, in PT, in communication, tone 40, OT, on source.
    • Bad: downtone, downstat, keyed in, entheta, enturbulated,1.1, PTS, out-ethics, out-KSW, DB, squirrel, SP, namby-pamby pantywaist dilettante.

    * * * * * END EXCERPT * * * * *


    The author of the article made a comment on Twitter:


    * * * * * BEGIN QUOTATION * * * * *

    The Girl

    .@IndieScieNews @TonyOrtega94 Hey cool! Thank you! I'm finally having the success and wins I was supposed to get from #scientology!

    * * * * * * END QUOTATION * * * * *

    The author has been made aware that the link to her article has been cross-posted to ESMB, WWP and a comment on Tony Ortega's blog.
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2016
  5. Knows

    Knows Gold Meritorious Patron

    Re: 30 Signs You Grew Up In Scientology

    Signs you grew up in Scientology...

    You don't go to college and you BRAG about it!:thumbsup:

    The coffee table in your house (where you still live at the age of 36) with your parents are boxes of "Basic Books" unopened and stacked side by side with a table cloth over it to hide the boxes. Family has no money but Mom is OT VI and Dad is re grading his Bridge for a 3rd time (his case was tough to crack cuz he did drugs).:whistling:

    You pepper your conversations with "Okay, Good!" "Fine!" "Fair Enough" "Kewl" "Oh, I got it" "That is so theta" and "Duplicated":ohmy:

    Christmas SUCKS! At Christmas - your family has a Traditional Beer and Cheese Party with Secret Santa Gifts comprising of Ramen Noodles and lotion for the E-meter.:unsure:

    You have no furniture in your apartment and sleep on the floor.

    It is loaded with boxes of WTH booklets, Congresses by LRH, Several Leather bound Dianetic's books in various languages, Basic Books (umpteen boxes unopened - your dad gave then to you cuz he could not sell them, Green Vols, Red Vols, Blue Vols, "Ron the Nut" and all Ron the .... vols, Boxes of VM T-Shirts, 2 E-meters from each vintage. (mom and dad gave them to you for Secret Santa Gifts).

    You think it is really kewl and theta to sell Sheets on Street corners.:no:

    When you got your first job working at Customer Service at Wal Mart - you were convinced customers nattering about the products they returned had overts and withholds on Wal Mart. You suggest to management that you start an Ethics Folder on them and try to disseminate to upper management "LRH WISE TECH" so Wal Mart can truly expand for real.

    Your cub boards consist of Cal Mag, Cal Mag Calm, Vitamins by Peter Gillham, Hard boiled eggs in the fridge and more Cal Mag.
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2016
  6. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    Re: 30 Signs You Grew Up In Scientology

    Your private business closes the week out at Thursday at 2 pm to be Standard and beat the bank rush - which is now digital and 24/7.

    You don't care about that wog stuff, you still mimeograph and telex and when in session you use Standard Handcream.
  7. aurora

    aurora Patron

    Re: 30 Signs You Grew Up In Scientology

    Some that didn't make it:

    - Your parents are divorced and you've had multiple step parents and half siblings.
    - When people don't give you some sort of acknowledgment after you've said something you want to flunk them.
    - You went to Delphi or homeschooled through California Ranch... unless your parents were staff, then you went to public school.
    - You can finish a OCA in record time because you've memorized all 200 questions.

    And to expand on Knows' post:
    don't forget rugs and oil paintings. And never go to the roadside without your copy of Big League Sales.
  8. CommunicatorIC

    CommunicatorIC @IndieScieNews on Twitter

    Re: 30 Signs You Grew Up In Scientology

    EDITED TO ADD: The author of the article made a comment on Twitter:


    * * * * * BEGIN QUOTATION * * * * *

    The Girl

    .@IndieScieNews @TonyOrtega94 Hey cool! Thank you! I'm finally having the success and wins I was supposed to get from #scientology!

    * * * * * * END QUOTATION * * * * *

    The author has been made aware that the link to her article has been cross-posted to ESMB, WWP and a comment on Tony Ortega's blog.
  9. Two threads on the same subject have been merged here.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 3, 2016
  10. Mike Laws

    Mike Laws Patron Meritorious

    Hi Aurora,

    Thanks for a most thoughtful article from a perspective few dare investigate! Glenda and FTS, I read each of your comments with keen interest.

    I am a second generation, born in. Sea Org, experienced probably the best and worst that Scientology and its culture has to offer. Right now I am pretty confused and down on the whole subject after a couple of major failures in my attempts to help others build positive life trajectories, become stable and live meaningful and rewarding lives. I have invested more time and effort into this over the past 10 years than I am willing to admit, perhaps from a somewhat self destructive stance, receiving more success than I felt I deserved, and trying to share and help others do the same. Some people just do great with minimal or no help. Others struggle with tremendous support and help. Don't understand why.

    Something, perhaps in addition to the thoughts is the subconscious evolved from childhood in the cult. Much, if not most of our actions in life are based on intuition and subconscious training and experience rather than analytical. First reaction or impression to a person. We don't think how we walk, or breath, or jump, or climb up stairs. We often walk or eat or sneeze or laugh like our parents, how much is genetic, how much is environmental subconscious learning?

    I believe the Scientology culture has some decent and a lot of very destructive points and combinations in it. It kind of works in the Scientology world. Outside it is a complete crap shoot with horrible odds, primarily dependent on some unknown other factor, either environmental, biological or psychological or luck.

    Just to see if I need to give this up for ever, lol, because I am not good at it, I am mentoring several never in, trying to incorporate what I learned, together with really analyzing what I did. A close friend commented to me that I went through life on a very scientific basis. So I took some tests to understand how my mind worked, and came up with a fairly uniform straight down the middle left brain/right brain. They indicated I used scientific or mathematical reasoning to understand a problem, and then highly creative means to fix or get out. I am playing with a white paper that captures the concept of using the scientific method for understanding us, our skills and abilities and mental states in relation to our family, friends, work, goals, money, business, etc. etc. It is built around the incredibly simple concept of being extremely aware and unbiased at the reaction or responses or effects created by different things we do, how we present ourselves, communicate, tone, volume, words, body language, etc. etc. With the exclusion of luck, good and bad which is quite real, and maybe karma, I believe our lives are the mathematical sum of our actions, positive and negative, moving forward or taking away from our begining, childhood or familial environmental factors, love, anger, wealth, poverty, values, etc.
  11. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    You're welcome. :)
    I agree with those points, and #6 made me laugh! I think a lot also has to do with parent's attitudes, as with any upbringing. This is where mimickry comes in, automatically doing what parents do and copying how they react. Obviously going into the SO at a young age is the worst as the parental model becomes a group that is only concerned with compliance and toeing the line, squashing individuality. That's why the effects are so much harder to understand and come to terms with. If a child went to a 'normal' school and had outside friends, the chances of better critical thinking skills developing are greater, and when the teen years hit many break away.

    It's the fate of the babies that haunt me. I helped run a scientology school and wee toddlers were doing their 'stats' every week ("regained abilities") and learning to be model scientology citizens. It takes such a lot of work to identify and examine that conditioning, and many just can't and don't.
  12. aurora

    aurora Patron

    I probably need to ruminate on this a little longer, to be honest. But I wanted to acknowledge that I read it and I'm thinking about it. Are you familiar with the work of Carol Dweck? In my experience, a growth mindset is necessary for any real learning and any real change. I also believe the old adage "hunger is the best sauce" and people learn the best when they really, really, really want to.
    I am not the greatest mentor, but I have gotten better. It's become more apparent to me over the years that unless they specifically ask, people don't want step-by-step solutions laid out for them and wrapped in a bow, but rather to feel that they are not only learning whatever you're teaching them, but also learning how to develop their own path to achieving something. You know, "give a man a fish" or whatever.
  13. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    G'day Mike! It's good to have your input here. It is a subject that few dare investigate and I'm not sure why. Perhaps it's not really seen as a problem unless it affects you personally or something.

    Good on you for doiing so much to help others, I think that is one of the most truly rewarding things in this life. I don't know if this will help, however one of the concepts that I have seen spring into rip-roaring importance with exes (helping and being helped) is the misunderstood one of "exchange". It is a sneaky little concept that can be a lynch pin for many other "considerations". Some people secretly don't want to 'be helped' because they can feel "their exchange" is out - it's not a conscious thing, it's an ingrained thing. I have personal experience with this and it's a huge one to deal with because on a conscious, logical level they say it's OK, yet unconsciously it's not. My way forward with that was explaining about Pay It Forward, about letting go, of the power of giving, being able to ask for help, accepting help without feeling bad etc. It takes time to overcome that one and a person has to actually do those things to fully grasp that both giving and receiving without 'a demanded balance' is alright and does not make them a criminal. Honestly, even a seemingly small scientology concept like this can cause huge harm to a person, especially one raised with it, or one who has recently left scio.

    You mention what I think is really the key - being extremely aware. And what concerns me is so many generational kids who have no idea they even have indoctrination to be aware of!
  14. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    Yep, so true.
  15. aurora

    aurora Patron

    Yeah ignore everything I said. This is everything. I just ... blew so much charge... for lack of a better phrase...
  16. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    Thanks, it helps me too that someone understands what I am saying. I can't tell you the tears and frustration that wee concept has caused in my family life. :kiss:
  17. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    I think this is appropriate for this thread.
    From Mike Rinder


  18. Glenda

    Glenda Gold Meritorious Patron

    Random thoughts here..

    For me both exchange and "make it go right" (also "be at cause") were both deeply ingrained concepts, activating automatic behaviour.


    I did some work-related conflict resolution stuff earlier this year. Really good stuff! In the middle of it I hit a strong issue, a real weakness I addressed. In no small way, I had an inability, and masked fear, to put my hand up for help/support. I had to (unconsciously) "make it go right", particularly in group settings. I reflected on this, dug deep, to discover it was a cult-installed bullshit concept.

    When I inspected this behaviour, and what hidden thoughts were involved, I saw there was a shame-inducing factor that was heavily used in the cult. It was inferred shameful to not be capable of "making it go right", be a strong team-member, give, give, give, etc., etc. Alternatively if one did admit (to others) that one was struggling one got mauled with arduous ethics (or justice) "handlings" or other costly "solutions". It was easier to just suck it all up, stay quiet and not admit you needed support from others.

    Compare this to the real world. I put my hand up, calmly, and got warm friendly support to resolve the issues I was running into at work. I learned so much about trust in that process - how it works in the real world - and how it is safe to admit that you don't have a damn clue how to resolve a (fairly major) issue. I learned that showing up in the real world, being real, trusting myself, being authentic, can be safe. Everyone involved retained their dignity and we all grew stronger from the conflict resolution process that was used. Compare that to the cults shame-inducing, "high cost" brain-twisting crap - it was an interesting experience.