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"Spiritual Betterment" -- Still Pursuing, or Avoiding like the Plague?

Colleen K. Peltomaa

Silver Meritorious Patron
Cool! It is a precept of scn that one is trying to return determinism and cause to the individual. That mostly lives in the FZ and it seems in the various offshoots including Idenics.

Being stuck in losses, wins, or anything is IMO the problem. COS violates
earlier data in strenuous attempts to stick one into " Now I'm supposed to's"
.....as supplied by COS. :)

Right, it might be a sort of spiritual sandwich: a win, and then losses, and that really sticks it.
 

Colleen K. Peltomaa

Silver Meritorious Patron
Thanks for the replies.

I'm still having a problem codifying my basic thought here, without coming across as a bigot or posting something in a non-PC manner. Ah well, here it goes...

Regarding the basic question posed here, at what point does some other spiritual journey simply become a replacement for Scn?

The closest analogy I've ever seen, on OCMB or elsewhere, is that Scn's auditing creates a type of addiction. The "rush" surrounding a win is quite powerful (I have experienced a couple of large ones), and I have surmised that most of us stayed in, whatever the cost, simply to continue to experience these wins, these FN "highs"2.

I liken it to a drug addiction. Not as powerful, for it doesn't have the physical "hook" that a drug does, but powerful nonetheless.

So, when we, meaning former Scns, continue along some "other path", is it akin to methadone for the heroin addict? Are we still struggling to find something, anything, that will give us this feeling again? Is it an addiction we aren't willing to shake, like a compulsive gambler wanting to bet on practically anything?

Or, is there really something to spirituality after all?

If it's the former, then that speaks badly of us.

If it's the latter, it also speaks badly for us, for we abandoned that which was bringing us heightened sprituality (regardless of the evil of the organization).

Smells like no-win.

Anyway, looking for more thoughts. As should be clearly evident, I haven't quite figured out what to do with the whole topic of spirituality.

Well, I gave up table salt. My body still needs salt. I replaced it with sea salt and my body likes that much better. It's a spiritual analogy.

Even if I had no "spiritual" needs I still have things going on in my mind that I am not in total control over, and I occasionally do things that make even me scratch my head in wonderment. So yes, I am still in need of help to help myself. After a little help I figure I can go solo from there and turn around and help a few others. I will go to my death bed (if that is the case) happy.
 

The Oracle

Gold Meritorious Patron
Dear Barky,

First of all, nothing stays the same, this is simple physics.

Things expand or contract, get better or worse.

If you are not improving yourself you are getting worse.

Second of all, whether you noticed yet or not, the world in itself is working improvment upon your life on a daily basis. You did not grow or kill the food you ate today did you? Farmers work on a daily basis to make sure you eat.
Others work so you can travel. You didn't build the house you live in probably.

An ENORMOUS amount of people work and contribute to your improvment on a daily / hourly basis.

So if you picked up a book with some extra advice on self improvment it would only be in addition to the self improvment others contribute to you on a daily basis anyway.

You are surviving because of the help you receive from your fellow man anyway, not in spite of it.
 

Colleen K. Peltomaa

Silver Meritorious Patron
Per LRH: A datum can only be understood and is meaningful, when it is compared to other data of comparable magnitude.

When a datum is "incomparable" what happens to it?
 

lionheart

Gold Meritorious Patron
Mike,

LionHeart, the idea that I am stuck in a win on Scientology was striking and shocking to me because it was there sitting in front of my face the whole time. I left only when my wins were reduced and seemed far off.

Today I still find it hard to quit the parts that are fun and exciting even if inefficient compared to other technologies. To ask me at this point to give up Scientology technology totally would be like asking a "rich" man to give away all of his possessions in life. Is there help for me?

LionHeart, I am familiar with your spiritual path (a beautiful one in my opinion), and, still, you stay in communication with scientologists and still have some pathos for the injustices the CofS commits.

I meant to communicate that I gave up the yearning for a repeat of the win. I didn't mean to imply that one should give up Scn tech. If something works for you, then great. Although there may be a phase in life when it no longer works, so I personally wouldn't get too stuck on any part of any methodology. If one is developing and growing, it seems only logical that at different times, different things will produce benefit. A flexible approach to what you use, depending on what seems right at the time, seems sensible to me.

I played my part for 10 years in promoting and applying Scn to new people. My wife personally was responsible for introducing it to thousands of people! Without people like us back in the 70's, Scn wouldn't be RPFing and degrading people today.

I read the stories of second and third generation kids escaping from CofS clutches, having known nothing else, and my heart weeps. My back can never be turned away from what the CofS does.

Also I am well aware that, by grace, my experience and benefits from Scn seem to be better than most ex-scns. So many exes seem so terribly wounded. I am blessed to have healed what Scn scars I had and wish the same for everyone else.

While there is breath in my body I will tell my truth and state the facts of the good and the bad that Scn does.

"From bitter searching of the heart
We rise to play a greater part"
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Per LRH: A datum can only be understood and is meaningful, when it is compared to other data of comparable magnitude.

When a datum is "incomparable" what happens to it?

It gets compared to other incomparable things, of course. :)

And isn't the adjective "indescribable" a paradox?

Paul
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
I meant to communicate that I gave up the yearning for a repeat of the win. I didn't mean to imply that one should give up Scn tech. If something works for you, then great. Although there may be a phase in life when it no longer works, so I personally wouldn't get too stuck on any part of any methodology. If one is developing and growing, it seems only logical that at different times, different things will produce benefit. A flexible approach to what you use, depending on what seems right at the time, seems sensible to me.

I played my part for 10 years in promoting and applying Scn to new people. My wife personally was responsible for introducing it to thousands of people! Without people like us back in the 70's, Scn wouldn't be RPFing and degrading people today.

I read the stories of second and third generation kids escaping from CofS clutches, having known nothing else, and my heart weeps. My back can never be turned away from what the CofS does.

Also I am well aware that, by grace, my experience and benefits from Scn seem to be better than most ex-scns. So many exes seem so terribly wounded. I am blessed to have healed what Scn scars I had and wish the same for everyone else.

While there is breath in my body I will tell my truth and state the facts of the good and the bad that Scn does.

"From bitter searching of the heart
We rise to play a greater part"

You keep saying these things.

Are you the other body I am running as a thetan?
 

Romuva

Patron Meritorious
Alanzo,that's a good analogy of auditing being sort of like alcohol or
drugs.

The 2 times I did auditing in COS,I felt good for a while then it wore off
after a couple of weeks or so.I then did some stupid PTS process where
I was just asked a bunch of dumb questions that made absolutely no sense
to me and I had paid quite a bit of money for it and got nothing out of it.


It was interesting to hear your story.
 

Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
I played my part for 10 years in promoting and applying Scn to new people. My wife personally was responsible for introducing it to thousands of people! Without people like us back in the 70's, Scn wouldn't be RPFing and degrading people today.

I read the stories of second and third generation kids escaping from CofS clutches, having known nothing else, and my heart weeps. My back can never be turned away from what the CofS does.

Also I am well aware that, by grace, my experience and benefits from Scn seem to be better than most ex-scns. So many exes seem so terribly wounded. I am blessed to have healed what Scn scars I had and wish the same for everyone else.

You have a distorted view of things dear Lionheart.

I have followed the careers of 1,000's of exes, including SO children, many have gone on and done great things.

These do not get reported - as for the most part they have disconnected from Organized Scio and the CofS.

Many still get processing from "indies" - they keep themselves well away from the lines of the CofS and the internet.

For every disaster caused by the CofS there are probably 10 okay situations - mainly from those who could walk away from the psycho tactics of the CofS.

Alan
 
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Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
You have a distorted view of things dear Lionheart.

I have followed the careers of 1,000's of exes, including SO children, many have gone on and done great things.

These do not get reported - as for the most part they have disconnected from Organized Scio and the CofS.

Many still get processing from "indies" - they keep themselves well away from the lines of the CofS and the internet.

For every disaster caused by the CofS there are probably 10 okay situations - mainly from those who could walk away from the psycho tactics of the CofS.

Alan

That's good to hear, Alan.
 

Romuva

Patron Meritorious
Some people walk away from it and are able to move on with thier lives.
A few people I have met (including myself) got pretty screwed up
by our experiences.In my opinion it has less to do with how much fortitude
you have and perhaps more to with what kind of recovery process or
counseling you had.Maybe some people don't need it as they saw little
problem with Sci and had positive experiences perhaps from day one.

Personally ,I feel there is a pretty good size percentage of people
that were screwed up by it and had to sort things out.
 

lionheart

Gold Meritorious Patron
You have a distorted view of things dear Lionheart.

I have followed the careers of 1,000's of exes, including SO children, many have gone on and done great things.

These do not get reported - as for the most part they have disconnected from Organized Scio and the CofS.

Many still get processing from "indies" - they keep themselves well away from the lines of the CofS and the internet.

For every disaster caused by the CofS there are probably 10 okay situations - mainly from those who could walk away from the psycho tactics of the CofS.

Alan

Hi Alan

I'm glad you know 1,000's of exes who have continued to make "spiritual progress".

It probably depends on the circles we move in, but of the ex-scns that I personally know, I seem to be the only one who is "still pursing" as per the subject of this thread, everyone else seems to have given up the idea of being able to progress. they seem to have given up due to LRH's betrayal of their goal.
 

barky

Patron with Honors
they seem to have given up due to LRH's betrayal of their goal.

Well, it's partly that, but IMO it's also due to the realization that there is something inherently wrong about trying to profit off others' spiritual enlightenment.

If searching for enlightenment was simply a personal choice (involving meditating and what-not), that's fine.

But if the search includes buying someone's snake oil, whether religious or irreligious, whether in book form or counseling form or hynosis form or whatever, it's immediately untrustworthy in my eyes.

Basically, my experience in Scn has taught me that there are cadres of shysters out there, seeking to profit off of one's misery. These scams jump right out at me now.
 

lionheart

Gold Meritorious Patron
Well, it's partly that, but IMO it's also due to the realization that there is something inherently wrong about trying to profit off others' spiritual enlightenment.

If searching for enlightenment was simply a personal choice (involving meditating and what-not), that's fine.

But if the search includes buying someone's snake oil, whether religious or irreligious, whether in book form or counseling form or hynosis form or whatever, it's immediately untrustworthy in my eyes.

Basically, my experience in Scn has taught me that there are cadres of shysters out there, seeking to profit off of one's misery. These scams jump right out at me now.

That's the sort of betrayal that I was meaning. Hope you can use your hard-won scam-detection abilities to allow you to move on, Barky.

There are good people in this world and spiritual techniques to satisfy enquiring minds without scamming their pockets! :)
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
This is probably going to come across as ugly, and I don't mean to be so, but it's something that really bothers me, so I thought I'd post it.

I see here, and on OCMB, that many former Scns will go into other forms of "spiritual betterment", whether it's an organized religion (like Christianity), or something else (like meditation or lucid dreaming or hypnotism or other things).

As a former myself, I find this ... odd.

After my Scn experience, I will never let anyone else get near my ol' noggin again, that includes ministers or psychiatrists or self-help books or any other quackery.

But (it would appear), many other "formers" are not only pursuing, but promoting, other paths (including the FreeZone).

So I wonder: which is the healthier path to travel once one is out of Scientology? Along some other road towards spiritual enlightenment; or a complete abandonment of such things?

I have more thoughts on this, but I thought I'd hear some of yours first.


Barky

Well, many people are interested in pursuing their spirituality and this doesn't end with some people, just because they left CofS-or even left Scn all together?

I pursue Scn still because I've had good results with it. So why ditch it? This doesn't make me popular with some critics on some forums who seem to think that it's all polluted, all of a piece, but,well, too bad.

Others go back to their previous or natal religion. And some go onward and try other things like Arnie Lerma or Lawrence Wollersheim- the latter of whom has his own cult now.

And other things like that.

Only a few become atheists or anything like that, I think.

I'll tell you what I find odd- the critics who are truly vicious about anyone still doing any Scn after leaving CofS (as opposed to just not wanting to do Scn but being relatively civil) , then it's hey, I'm a Mason (Jeffrey Augustine) or I'm a Wiccan (talking about "Crimson", not Kilia who doesn't slam people) or I'm a Buddhist (a couple assholes I've talked to -one of whom was "Hund" on OCMB-who said they liked Buddhism but had a shitless cow anytime anyone would say they liked parts of Scn) . Those are some very esoteric things and every single one of them contain ideas also found in Scn.

So these people have NO room to point fingers.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Some people walk away from it and are able to move on with thier lives.
A few people I have met (including myself) got pretty screwed up
by our experiences.In my opinion it has less to do with how much fortitude
you have and perhaps more to with what kind of recovery process or
counseling you had.Maybe some people don't need it as they saw little
problem with Sci and had positive experiences perhaps from day one.

Personally ,I feel there is a pretty good size percentage of people
that were screwed up by it and had to sort things out.

There are lots of people who leave CofS and still do some Scn in some way who have moved on with their lives, and lots of other people who've left CofS and gone on to worship/study other ologies and isms who also have moved on with their lives.

A lot of those people were interested in spirituality before they got into Scn and now that they're out of CofS, feel free to pursue it the way they wish.

I really don't think it's a question of not moving on in most cases, though I'm sure there could be exceptions.

Ah well. Not trying to give you a bad time. Just some thoughts I had...
 

Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
Hi Alan

I'm glad you know 1,000's of exes who have continued to make "spiritual progress".

It probably depends on the circles we move in, but of the ex-scns that I personally know, I seem to be the only one who is "still pursing" as per the subject of this thread, everyone else seems to have given up the idea of being able to progress. they seem to have given up due to LRH's betrayal of their goal.

My apology, I did not look at the threads title.

What I said was: "I have followed the careers of 1,000's of exes, including SO children, many have gone on and done great things."

Some continue to train and process.

Most just needed a few sessions to unfix themselves from being stuck in some past Scio incidents or wrong items.

Most had to repair their lives - they may keep a light connection to other exes, a little coffee shop processing.

Share their wins in life - but 90% had a lot of fixing up of their finances and lack of PT job skills.

As for their "spiritual progress" I really cannot say.

About 5% have maintained some study, training and processing and have done very well.

About the same figure 5% are so brokenhearted that they have given up.

Alan
 
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Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
My apology, I did not look at the threads title.

What I said was: "I have followed the careers of 1,000's of exes, including SO children, many have gone on and done great things."

Some continue to train and process.

Most just needed a few sessions to unfix themselves from being stuck in some past Scio incidents or wrong items.

Most had to repair their lives - they may keep a light connection to other exes, a little coffee shop processing.

Share their wins in life - but 90% had a lot of fixing up of their finances and lack of PT job skills.

As for their "spiritual progress" I really cannot say.

About 5% have maintained some study, training and processing and have done very well.

About the same figure 5% are so brokenhearted that they have given up.

Alan

What strikes me is that, I know of almost no-one I've ever met who has abandoned the search for 'spiritual betterment'.

It's not all that uncommon to run into 'kids' who have never even looked (but, many do even more than us old fogies), but, I think 'spiritual betterment' is a common goal to *everyone* older than 30; more so as you get older.

But, that's not to say that I consider 'Scientology' as even a potential 'path' there. Nor, I think, do many. One must be *tricked* into Scientology, and, once tricked in, the 'path' is singularly unrewarding to the acolyte and universally unspiritual for the adept.

Even what Scientology 'promises' *CONTROL* is about the least spiritual goal I could imagine.

Zinj
 
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