Stabbing @ Scio Sydney - 12/2/2019 9:42 PM Central Time USA

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Miss Ellie, Jan 3, 2019.

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  1. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    Thought I'd try to organize some names so they don't get buried in the thread:

    #1 The Kid. 16 years old.

    #2 The Kid's Mother.

    #3 Chih-Jen (Aaron) Yeh. One that "escorted" the kid out. Was 24 years old. Stabbed and Dead

    #4 Shannon Vaughan. Also escorted the kid out. 30-year-old. Some hand wounds...released from hospital.

    #5 Penny Tang. Assaulted.

    #6 Mr Vaughan, Ms Teng and Joel Lawrence. ( did unlawful violence to) I assume this is the Affray....or Brawl.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-05/man-charged-with-murder-over-scientology-stabbings/10686814
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2019
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  2. Leland

    Leland Crusader

  3. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    This is just a meandering thought, but it occurred to me that there may be something in the Taiwanese psyche that rails against being imprisoned or otherwise restricted. Alice Wu broke out of her "babywatch" prison on her own, believing it was more important to be free than the damage to herself. She really tore her arm in her escape and ran like hell away from there. (see news reports) Someone on the Bunker mentioned he thought they were probably taking the kid to a babywatch place or physically restraining him against his volition in some way. I tend to think that's more in line with what actually happened and it was more than words that set the man off to feel he had to defend himself to that degree.

    Every country's society is affected by its history. Taiwan has an interesting history:

    "The term "White Terror" in its broadest meaning refers to the entire period from 1947 to 1987.[4] Around 140,000 Taiwanese were imprisoned during this period, of which from about 3,000 to 4,000 were executed for their real or perceived opposition to the Kuomintang (KMT, Chinese Nationalist Party) government led by Chiang Kai-shek.[2] Most actual prosecutions, though, took place in 1950–1953. Most of those prosecuted were labeled by the Kuomintang as "bandit spies" (匪諜), meaning spies for Chinese communists, and punished as such."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Terror_(Taiwan)

    It would seem that freedom is very highly valued by the Taiwanese, so much so that they might fight back fiercely if they thought someone was trying to hurt or imprison them or a family member.

    Food for thought. :hmm:
     
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  4. Leland

    Leland Crusader

  5. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    There is also an Asia trait of "losing face."

    There is a new post over on Tony Ortega's The Bunker.

    This is a portion of what one person said:

    "Rachel Bernstein: I don’t know how emotionally disturbed the son was so I can’t speak to that, but whether or not someone is emotionally disturbed, moving from one country to another as a teenager and being taken away from your friends and the culture and the language that you know into a totally new environment is going to make you more reliant and dependent on your parent to be there for you. It sounds like what happened was that his mother was getting very involved with the Scientology center in Sydney and was probably spending a lot of time there (especially if she was doing the Purif) and therefore spending time away from him and away from home and may have been using up the family’s resources as well to pay for services there, which may have made him nervous. I assume that he was feeling isolated, scared, and fearful that his parent and protector was going to be pulled farther away from him where he might be left without anyone. If she was a Scientologist for awhile beforehand, and if it is true that he had an emotional disturbance, it was potentially not treated as it should have been and he was not given the benefit of getting the kind of help he may have needed in order to make this huge life transition easier on him, especially if it was a monumental and potentially traumatizing change that was not of his choosing. Regarding this “domestic dispute” they had there before the incident … I find the most interesting part of the story that after the “domestic dispute” the press said that she talked to people within the Org about it and that means that she left it in their hands to deal with as opposed to her being able to speak openly with her son about it and resolve it with him directly. That is going to make any child feel resentful and angry about the fact that there is an organization that is now both physically and emotionally standing in between him and his mother. I also find it meaningful that he attacked a guard as opposed to someone just in there taking courses or doing the Purif. The guard was the symbolic barrier between him and his mother and by attacking the guard with a knife I believe he was showing how angry he was and how powerless he felt to be able to either access his mother or protect his mother from all of this and it was a way of trying to get rid of the huge barrier that was now constructed between him and his mother. Whether or not he had an emotional disturbance, he just may have been terrified being in a new country and then feeling like his mother was being kidnapped away from him and there was nothing he could do about it."
     
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  6. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Yeh. Reputation is important to them.

    I really liked Rachel Bernstein's insights on this, too.
     
  7. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    Also like to add that the Kid, at 16, I'm sure was completely Internet savvy .... and could have easily been aware of much of the info on the Internet about the Cult....such as the Alice Wu incident of 2013.
     
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  8. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    New Media vid:

    Some good stuff! Tony Ortega talks...

    Plus that tough looking Scientology Security Guard is in this video a couple times.

    In one brief clip...it looks like he is talking to an area neighbor and instructing the News Video team to leave and get away. This woman at the door looks like another Taiwanese...and is perhaps another Cult Member or Public.

    This is astounding as it shows the Scientology Cult Security Guard interfering with a Police Investigation into a Murder...!!!

     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2019
  9. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    What an interesting emphasis and choice of words: "spiritual disabilities".

    And what about the sauna where the mother is presumed to be spending around 5 hours a day and taking up to 5000 mg of niacin? Are those also to rid "spiritual disabilities" or should we interpret that as something more akin to physical or medical treatment with a possible risk of liver damage, heat exhaustion, etc.?

    Is part of the damage control to de-emphasize the Purif and focus on other so called "religious" practices? How many saunas are there and how many people can they service? Was the son reading about people getting injured on the Purif and concerned for his mother's health? Are there laws against providing the Purif in their home country that they must do it in Australia?

    I thought Scientology was supposed to help the able to become more able but now they are treating the spiritually disabled? Have to wonder if this is the reporter's language or the official OSA wording intended to evoke sympathy for their work? It seems so carefully contrived or lawyerly.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-05/man-charged-with-murder-over-scientology-stabbings/10686814

    (snip)
    The Scientology centre in Chatswood is spread over 13,500 square metres and is the largest facility outside the United States.

    It houses 60 auditing rooms where members are rid of "spiritual disabilities".
    (snip)
     
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  10. oneonewasaracecar

    oneonewasaracecar Gold Meritorious Patron

    He's committed a serious crime and he's drawn bad PR in Australia. He's not rich and on lines. He's declared.
    I'm wondering about what kind of story they can concoct for Taiwan. You can be sure the angry dwarf who can't sing will be consumed by this over the coming weeks. I guess he picked the wrong week to give up $5,000 bottles of scotch. The RPF has probably already started to fill up.

    The interesting thing is what will happen with the mother. They will move all her files (and maybe her) out of the country.

    I too had difficulty understanding the media coverage of this. If only the reports would read something like this: A PTS wog came to the org to get incom with a 2D PC (non sexual) who was unavailable due to being in sauna and has a major ARC break with staffers. The DSO called in the Sea Org staff to escort him from the base and one was killed while escorting him. These journalists clearly need to do a locational.

    In all seriousness, the police would tell them nothing and the org would tell them lies. It's incredible we know as much as we do. I suspect a lot of the contradiction and confusion has come from trying to get a story out quickly on little info. I was going to reserve judgment on what has happened until we can get something more solid. I think until the trial the facts of the case will be difficult to nail down for certain.
    Bingo. Taiwanese nationals will be scrambling to answer questions to the police about who they were and what they were doing there. The truth won't match their VISAs so they will all need to lie to police.

    This raises a lot of questions. Will they need to get a lot of Taiwanese out of Sydney because they were on tourist VISAs? Will their passports be flagged? Will their number of visits to Australia be questioned? Will they need to replace staff that have left Australia due to the flap? How will the Taiwanese government respond?

    South Africa's orgs collapsed years ago. ANZO is pretty much all there is on this side of the planet. If Scientology make a big enough mess of this, we could have the first clear hemisphere.
     
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  11. oneonewasaracecar

    oneonewasaracecar Gold Meritorious Patron

    Wogs don't know what body thetans are and space cooties sounds even lamer than "spiritual disabilities." Sadly, this is actually the best PR job they can do.
     
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  12. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    This News Video clearly shows a Scientology Security Guard interfering with an on-going Police Investigation?

    He is talking to another Taiwanese Cult Public?

    In this Video frame capture....he is warning away the Press it would appear.

    But, what is he doing talking to this woman????

    Kudos to the News Videographer that got this footage!!!!

    Hey News Videographer...if you see this msg,....turn this footage over to the Police!!!!




    Screen-Shot-2019-01-05-at-6.32.jpg Screen-Shot-2019-01-05-at-6.33.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
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  13. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Yes, how will the Taiwanese government respond?

    First, it's likely there will be a Taiwan official visiting the man accused of murder. Immigration will likely be involved and ask him not only questions of how he arrived and why, but who else was there and perhaps (if he is a concerned rep) about other nationals reported missing.

    They COULD ask to verify Taiwan visas based on his statements.

    They have records of every occurrence and as you already know from previous conversations, there were also a couple at the airport. Scientology already has a poor history with Taiwan's immigration authorities.

    I don't know enough about their culture to know how they'd handle it, but it will give them an opportunity to investigate "as a normal course of action" more than they normally can.
     
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  14. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    For our readers, this facility is an "Advanced Org", meaning they specialize in providing the highest level of services to attain the state of Operating Thetan. To learn more about what that actually entails:

    https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Church_of_Scientology's_'Operating_Thetan'_documents_leaked_online
     
  15. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    That's our Paul Schofield!

    YOU ARE SO WONDERFUL! Thanks for doing this.:bighug:Great video and article, and on Channel 9 yet! YAY!

    The boy was barefoot. He came back without even any shoes on and was being escorted off the premises that way? There's a lot more to this story. :yes:

    You used a different link. Here's the Channel 9 sydney video:

    https://www.9news.com.au/national/2...d-on-sydney-premises-of-church-of-scientology
     
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  16. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    It will be interesting to find out (if we ever do) whether the mother is new to scientology or a long time Scientologist.

    If new to Scientology and not yet a true believer she may realize how horribly this whole matter was handled with her son who was trying to protect her from getting involved with a criminal cult, and may soon join the ranks of ex-Scientologists (if she ever was one).

    Lots of unanswered questions though. I'm wondering whether her kid had a previous history of violence and/or mental health issues.

    If he's convicted of murder how much time is he looking at doing? Will he be treated as an adult by the justice system?
     
  17. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Bryan Seymour and Channel 7 News is on it, too. Good coverage and video but it's on Twitter. If anyone has a good link, please post it, I'm not on Twitter.
     
  18. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    Sorry but I think you may be reading way too much into all of this ... I do feel very, very sad for that young boy who clearly has serious issues (none of which justify pulling a knife and committing murder whether pre-meditated or not) ... but my main sadness is for the man that was knifed to death and his family.
     
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  19. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    Hi Sheila,

    I don't think you have to sign up to Twitter to look at twitter....

    Anyway, here is a Video about the Scientology Stabbing with Bryan Seymour ( from New York ) on a Sydney News Video.

    Personally, I don't think he really did a "good" job in this video...didn't much care for what he had to say.

    https://twitter.com/7NewsSydney/status/1080795524532293632
     
  20. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    Perhaps, but I don't think so.

    Sure it is tragic. But as one who has been on the receiving end of this kind of action from the Cult...the dead man was out of lines IMO. He should have never been involved in this at all.... The Cult is at fault here in a major way, IMO for putting him in the position for this to have happened to him. I am pretty sure he never signed up for this sort of job or duty....and if he did....if the man that got stabbed was a "Cult Enforcer" then he should have known that his job could back-fire on him at any time...

    Sorry, but I have little feelings for anyone that acts as Cult Enforcer.

    At best, these Cult Enforcer types are professional bullies.

    The Cult states in so many words that anyone can walk away at any time....but the truth is that these Enforcer Types the Cult employs are there to intimidate and see that people don't just walk away.

    Edited:

    Also, there have been so many deaths and suicides and such of cult public and former members....I think it is very interesting that one "on the other side of things" has been killed.
    Frankly, I'm astonished that it hasn't happened before or more frequently...
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
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