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Staff pay.

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
$10 a week?

I guess I'm just nattering again.

I probably didn't even deserve $10 per day, even on my best days, I was so downstat and so out-ethics all the time.

See, I really believed that the reason my pay was so low was because of ME. It was some out-ethics situation I was involved in, or some overt that I'd committed. At the most charitable times, my poverty could be explained by "lack of hatting".


There's usually an overt or a misunderstanding at the bottom of these situations. The overt or misunderstanding is likely never what your seniors believe it to be. They plug in their item, not your own. People don't get comm eved for what they have done, but for what it is believed they have done.

Scientology operates on a substitute confront. If it isn't written it isn't true. So everything goes in writing, even bullshit that isn't true at all. Beings aren't confronted. Your pc folder is C/S'd; your ethics file is reviewed. These things are never properly representative of what is in your heart and soul.

So, from personal experience, I suspect it was probably your files that were being paid $10 per week because that's all the person being described therein was worth. :roflmao:

There's really a truth and a joke there. I hope one and all get it. :happydance:

Pc's who commit continuous overts are candidates for being resistive cases. Not that I am resistive, not that you are. But, trying to live in a society that revolves around money on a mere $10 a week gives any being a continuous problem (suggesting PTSness) and an opportunity to commit continuous overts in an effort to resolve the situation.

But here's the overt, again I speak for myself more than anyone else so don't make this your item if it isn't: Living a life not your own. Working for no pay, fun at times, but not enough fun to override no or inadequate pay.

And, like I say, the overt is never what seniors think it is.

In preparation for my comm ev one of the things I was hit with was "out 2-D." Now you know in scientology that means just one thing: You are bonking a person not your legal partner, not your spouse.

Sorry, not my item, not in 35+ years.

But "out 2-D," yes. 2-D, before the redefinition, means the sex act and the rearing of children. All I had to do is accept that I was spending time on post that I should have been spending with, and wanted to spend with, wife and children. And realizing the ways I had given up on my own hopes and dreams, I decided to "make it go right." Right, of course, as defined by me because it is MY LIFE! :thumbsup:

So there you go. Out-2D I was. Could management have figured it out? Nope. They suffer from selective perception.

The solution to many of these seemingly unresolvable staff difficulties is actually very simple: Just walk away. Then, get on with your life.
:dancer:
 

FinallyFree

Gold Meritorious Patron
There's usually an overt or a misunderstanding at the bottom of these situations. The overt or misunderstanding is likely never what your seniors believe it to be. They plug in their item, not your own. People don't get comm eved for what they have done, but for what it is believed they have done.

Scientology operates on a substitute confront. If it isn't written it isn't true. So everything goes in writing, even bullshit that isn't true at all. Beings aren't confronted. Your pc folder is C/S'd; your ethics file is reviewed. These things are never properly representative of what is in your heart and soul.

So, from personal experience, I suspect it was probably your files that were being paid $10 per week because that's all the person being described therein was worth. :roflmao:

There's really a truth and a joke there. I hope one and all get it. :happydance:

Pc's who commit continuous overts are candidates for being resistive cases. Not that I am resistive, not that you are. But, trying to live in a society that revolves around money on a mere $10 a week gives any being a continuous problem (suggesting PTSness) and an opportunity to commit continuous overts in an effort to resolve the situation.

But here's the overt, again I speak for myself more than anyone else so don't make this your item if it isn't: Living a life not your own. Working for no pay, fun at times, but not enough fun to override no or inadequate pay.

And, like I say, the overt is never what seniors think it is.

In preparation for my comm ev one of the things I was hit with was "out 2-D." Now you know in scientology that means just one thing: You are bonking a person not your legal partner, not your spouse.

Sorry, not my item, not in 35+ years.

But "out 2-D," yes. 2-D, before the redefinition, means the sex act and the rearing of children. All I had to do is accept that I was spending time on post that I should have been spending with, and wanted to spend with, wife and children. And realizing the ways I had given up on my own hopes and dreams, I decided to "make it go right." Right, of course, as defined by me because it is MY LIFE! :thumbsup:

So there you go. Out-2D I was. Could management have figured it out? Nope. They suffer from selective perception.

The solution to many of these seemingly unresolvable staff difficulties is actually very simple: Just walk away. Then, get on with your life.
:dancer:

:goodposting:
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Actually, Ted, I have a little bit different view of it now.

I was trying to sell a bullshit philosophy in a materialistic society for a living.

Literally 98% of the people who were interested in something we had to sell, enough to buy a book, or to do a free service, never came back.

Of the remaining 2%, 3/4s of those disappeared after the first course or two.

The rest continued up the Bridge as Scientologists for while, and then left. Of all the people who have ever become interested in Scientology at one time, such an infinitesimal minuscule of them ever stay that it is simply not a viable way to make a living.

And the only reason the Church of Scientology still exists with any staff at all is because they are lied to so thoroughly, and so coerced with ethics handlings and introverted with OW write ups and SRAs, that they are literally slaves. And even the overwhelming majority of them wake up and finally leave, too!

It's like pushing a dead horse up a hill for a living.

Pretty soon you just say, "Why am I doing this?"
 

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
Actually, Ted, I have a little bit different view of it now.

I was trying to sell a bullshit philosophy in a materialistic society for a living.

Literally 98% of the people who were interested in something we had to sell, enough to buy a book, or to do a free service, never came back.

Of the remaining 2%, 3/4s of those disappeared after the first course or two.

The rest continued up the Bridge as Scientologists for while, and then left. Of all the people who have ever become interested in Scientology at one time, such an infinitesimal minuscule of them ever stay that it is simply not a viable way to make a living.

And the only reason the Church of Scientology still exists with any staff at all is because they are lied to so thoroughly, and so coerced with ethics handlings and introverted with OW write ups and SRAs, that they are literally slaves. And even the overwhelming majority of them wake up and finally leave, too!

It's like pushing a dead horse up a hill for a living.

Pretty soon you just say, "Why am I doing this?"


Pheww!!

I have lots to say on that. But the Magic and Lakers are playing and I have a game to watch.

"Yes," to the dead horse concept. Catch you later. :)
 
Staff Pay

Great post OEO, man I always get the sugarcravings when I see your abbreviated name... reminds me of OREO :yes:
Alanzo - great post especially about getting on with it and now finally being able to live your life and be well off financially - good on you! I agree that staff members make the choice to forego any financial stability in line with what they feel is "the greatest good" at the time. I sincerely hope that anyone thinking of joining staff (or currently on staff) reads this board before they do.
I can give you some data from my experience as funnily enough I was cleaning up last week and found a whole heap of Scio stuff - including info on my "staff pay"! As a Class V Org staff member in the 90's, I got $43 in one entire year (documented!). Might I add that the org I worked for was at its highest number of staff ever at that point (god knows what the poor staff get there now, actually I think they are mostly S.O members anyway so...) and we were a combined org in that it wasn't split Day and Foundation - so that meant 6 days a week and the days were 8:30am - 10:00pm. I do remember getting a bonus one year - I think it was about $100. Now, in the Sea Org, I don't think I even made $43 the whole time I was there!!! It was quite funny actually, us "senior management terminals" got no pay most weeks. I had a secret stash that I had saved from jobs when I was a teenager and used that for my food, just couldn't handle sandwiches and rice for all my meals (yep, dinner was very often sandwiches). I remember a lot of the local CLO staffers were desperately trying to get a transfer to the local AO as they always got about twice the pay us management guys got. And hey, double $5 is $10 and that could mean the difference between clean clothes and dirty ones! I remember a very senior management terminal told me he would happily go and be the Folder Admin at the local AO just so he could get some money for cigarettes :hifive:
How do smokers survive in the Sea Org?! :eyeroll:
The "in thing" to do was to get a post as a reg or bookstore officer so you could make some commissions. The reg at the local AO even had her own car... woah..... :coolwink:
Needless to say I did leave before my secret stash had been totally depleted - thankfully. But not without shouting me old mates a hell of a lot of dinners!!! :gathering:
 
... And Ron got rich selling his fiction books....NOT from the cult. Oh my. Delusion was grand. :keelover:

Are you sure? Or maybe I don't understand what you mean with "Delusion was grand."

LRH got rich trough donations, too. Yes, he wrote fiction books, but the truth is, they didn't bring much money :D

I wonder, why everybody is only riding here on the luxury of DM. I agree, it is more obvious, but LRH, too, was not a poor man.
Dianetics and Scientology were really lucrative, for him too.
 

FinallyFree

Gold Meritorious Patron
Are you sure? Or maybe I don't understand what you mean with "Delusion was grand."

LRH got rich trough donations, too. Yes, he wrote fiction books, but the truth is, they didn't bring much money :D

I wonder, why everybody is only riding here on the luxury of DM. I agree, it is more obvious, but LRH, too, was not a poor man.
Dianetics and Scientology were really lucrative, for him too.

(sorry Clammy - I beat you to answering!)
Ladybeetle - she is being very sarcastic.
 

justaguy

Patron Meritorious
What finallyfree meant is that clamicide was being sarcastic, I think.

I'm pretty sure everyone here knows that LRH got rich off of scientology, including our favorite clam-killer.
 

Winston Smith

Flunked Scientology
I'm too tired to read this from the beginning, but is this about DM's "compensation," or everyone else's. I remember making between $16 and $22 a week and I was supposed to be grateful for that. Suffice it to say staff pay is little hint at why everyone blows.
 

Winston Smith

Flunked Scientology
Okay, now I read enough to get the feel of this. It is my firm belief that without money one can do nothing to help anyone. With money a person can make a wonderful difference in people's lives.

I have personally helped several people, including strangers, out of financial binds. It is a rewarding experience to make such a difference. I have had the breath hugged out of me by an ex-con who was desperate for subway money to get to the halfway house (I gave him $50 with but one requirement--that he return the favor to someone else in the future. He walked away with tears in his eyes.)

A woman I used to work with seemed very preoccupied, worried during one day. I put $300 in an envelope and told her I never wanted to be paid back.
She called me an angel, was overcome with joy at being able to pay some bills.

I dear friend of 30 years was talking about the slow down in jobs. I gave 'em
$350 as a Christmas present, requiring only that they return the favor toward someone else when they could.

MY POINT here is that money matters. The more of it you have, the more people you can help!! I never plan on stopping my practice. My only requirement is the same spirit be carried forward, as a mentor of mine did 39 years ago. He literally had enough faith in me to help me launch my career and did not charge a dime for that help. Ever since I have "returned the favor."

God Bless you all
 
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Operating Wog

Patron with Honors
I think average pay for the decades I was on staff was maybe around $20 a week. Some weeks it spiked up to a hundred or two, but those were more than compensated for by sometimes several weeks in a row of $0.

Reges had their reg bonuses and book commissions, as did bookstore officers. The real kicker was when the GI was down and reges / others would start combing through accounts folders for people with money on line and do some massive book debit. Since the staff pay is based on CGI (corrected gross income) and the GBS (gross book sales) comes right off the top of the GI, any book debits off account are just like negative GI.

So some reg or BSO would convince some offline public to wipe out the training package he paid for 5 years ago and donate a few thousand DMSMH's to ... whatever donation project was going on at the time.

He or she would get a huge commission, but it would wipe out the CGI, meaning the rest of the staff would starve that week. And of course you couldn't say a word about it. They were upstat and promoting LRH. If you weren't getting paid, you must be off source, out ethics, whatever.
 

angel

Patron with Honors
Thanks Operating Wog

This explains why AOLA Call-in always trys to sell books over the phone and by letters to my husband who had secured one of his OT levels years ago when the prices were cheap. THESE CALL IN TERMINALS ARE HUNGRY AND THEY WANT THE COMMISSION. Now I feel bad. We don't want anymore F'ing books though. :confused2:

We were part time org staff and my husband had a wog job, so it was never for the money. Full timers knew the purpose was not for money and had to make it go right. The family's with both mom and dad on staff would make jokes about having to eat peanut butter. Most couples had one on staff and the other worked wog jobs.

Jen
 

Opter

Silver Meritorious Patron
My staff pay at a class 5 org, just about covered my weekly public transport costs.:yes:

Opter
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Do as I say, not as I do?

Yes, this is an interesting post, especially when in the SO you are rarely paid and you are one lucky SO member if you have a stash no one knows about.

As long as anything that creates good PR is paid for, such as lavish events, beautiful buildings etc well then thats okay isn't it.

I laugh at the fact that if you want something lavish for yourself, well then of course you would be PTS to the middle class, Go Figure that one too!

Sir Facer - Very nicely stated key points. The hypocrisy is so thick. DM and his lieutenants should be leading by example, instead they practice the philosophy, "Do as I say, not as I do".

I used to Disburse payroll in a Sea Org org in the 1970's and am pretty familiar with their system. We had an out Ethics guy who was in Treasury, I think his post title was CASHIER; hIs job was to collect on freeloaders debts and any monies owed to the Org by ex-staff or public. A bonus system created at Flag was put in for Cashiers to receive 10% of anything they collected. Another system was put in at the same time for the Case Supervisor to receive a bonus based on the cumulative amount of TA (tone arm action) of all the sessions which he C/sed during the week. If this TA went above a certain baseline, he would get bonuses based on how much over the baseline he got.

One week, the Org had a low GI. The base pay for staff was $10 a week. We were told we were only getting half pay, $5 per week. Meanwhile the Cashier, Mark, received over $700 and the non Sea Org Class VIII, Don, also received over $700. $700 was pretty big bucks in the early 1970's probably $3,500 or $4,000 in today's money.

I was forced to disburse this money on Friday and it made me sick to do so.
The hard working dedicated rank and file only got $5 while an out Ethics crooked Cashier and a non Sea Org C/S. got over $700 each. I routed myself to Ethics for participating in this farce but the Ethics Officer said I had done nothing unethical. I was told to write a report to Flag explaining the inequiites of their bonus systems which I did. The bonus systems ended about 6 months later. The day after his bonus system ended, the Cashier routed off staff - he was only there for the money.
lkwdblds
 

Sir Facer

Patron with Honors
Sir Facer - Very nicely stated key points. The hypocrisy is so thick. DM and his lieutenants should be leading by example, instead they practice the philosophy, "Do as I say, not as I do".

I used to Disburse payroll in a Sea Org org in the 1970's and am pretty familiar with their system. We had an out Ethics guy who was in Treasury, I think his post title was CASHIER; hIs job was to collect on freeloaders debts and any monies owed to the Org by ex-staff or public. A bonus system created at Flag was put in for Cashiers to receive 10% of anything they collected. Another system was put in at the same time for the Case Supervisor to receive a bonus based on the cumulative amount of TA (tone arm action) of all the sessions which he C/sed during the week. If this TA went above a certain baseline, he would get bonuses based on how much over the baseline he got.

One week, the Org had a low GI. The base pay for staff was $10 a week. We were told we were only getting half pay, $5 per week. Meanwhile the Cashier, Mark, received over $700 and the non Sea Org Class VIII, Don, also received over $700. $700 was pretty big bucks in the early 1970's probably $3,500 or $4,000 in today's money.

I was forced to disburse this money on Friday and it made me sick to do so.
The hard working dedicated rank and file only got $5 while an out Ethics crooked Cashier and a non Sea Org C/S. got over $700 each. I routed myself to Ethics for participating in this farce but the Ethics Officer said I had done nothing unethical. I was told to write a report to Flag explaining the inequiites of their bonus systems which I did. The bonus systems ended about 6 months later. The day after his bonus system ended, the Cashier routed off staff - he was only there for the money.
lkwdblds

I know this s written a while ago, however I just hoped onto this thread again and read your post here, and have to say I saw this stuff go on when I was on staff too, when top execs would be walking around all cashed up and the rest of us would have pennies to shine! what a joke the staff pay system is with in the church. Lets just hope the governments of this world recognise that the CoS condones slave labour, with idiots at the top rolling around in gold:omg:
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
I know this s written a while ago, however I just hoped onto this thread again and read your post here, and have to say I saw this stuff go on when I was on staff too, when top execs would be walking around all cashed up and the rest of us would have pennies to shine! what a joke the staff pay system is with in the church. Lets just hope the governments of this world recognise that the CoS condones slave labour, with idiots at the top rolling around in gold:omg:

I often saw payroll figures in 1973-5 at AOSHUK (I worked in Dept 8 and also as FBO) and again around 1980/1 (FBO again). The top execs generally didn't get paid significantly more than the rest of the crew. The ones who raked it in were the reges and booksales people. The Non-SO tech people, in the days when there were such, generally got more money than the SO people (duh), but since they had to pay rent and buy food etc. that was not unfair. They were rarely paid a living wage, let alone huge amounts. There could have been some ridiculous tech bonus system for NSO, but I didn't see it.

I did see ridiculous book bonuses being paid out, week after week after week, that did make me sick. Thousands of dollars being paid to reges for getting people to use money they had on account already for training and auditing for "special properties", i.e. fancy leather-bound copies of books selling for thousands of dollars. Just in case anyone doesn't understand this, here it how it works. Book income and tax setasides and so forth are subtracted from the gross income for that week, and the org gets to spend maybe 40-50% of what is left (the "Corrected Gross Income"). This is irrespective of whether the book income is fresh money, or is a debit from account of money paid in years before.

So maybe the org makes $25,000 income that week, and the CGI would have been maybe $20,000, and the org gets to live off maybe $8,000 for utilities, postage, promo, staff pay etc. If some criminal reg like Hazel Grafton or Peter Morgan then "sold" a leatherbound piece of shit to someone for $4,000, making themselves $600 commission in the process, it would make no difference to the Gross Income for the week, but the book income would jump by $4,000, and the CGI would shrink by $4,000. In this case, the org would suddenly have only $6,500 for stuff that week. It was heartbreaking. My complaints were met with "Books make booms," and the fact that one leatherbound copy of Battlefield Earth bought as an investment (hah!) didn't exactly fit into the "Books are Dissemination" theory didn't enter into their thoughts at all.

Paul
 

Sir Facer

Patron with Honors
I often saw payroll figures in 1973-5 at AOSHUK (I worked in Dept 8 and also as FBO) and again around 1980/1 (FBO again). The top execs generally didn't get paid significantly more than the rest of the crew. The ones who raked it in were the reges and booksales people. The Non-SO tech people, in the days when there were such, generally got more money than the SO people (duh), but since they had to pay rent and buy food etc. that was not unfair. They were rarely paid a living wage, let alone huge amounts. There could have been some ridiculous tech bonus system for NSO, but I didn't see it.

I did see ridiculous book bonuses being paid out, week after week after week, that did make me sick. Thousands of dollars being paid to reges for getting people to use money they had on account already for training and auditing for "special properties", i.e. fancy leather-bound copies of books selling for thousands of dollars. Just in case anyone doesn't understand this, here it how it works. Book income and tax setasides and so forth are subtracted from the gross income for that week, and the org gets to spend maybe 40-50% of what is left (the "Corrected Gross Income"). This is irrespective of whether the book income is fresh money, or is a debit from account of money paid in years before.

So maybe the org makes $25,000 income that week, and the CGI would have been maybe $20,000, and the org gets to live off maybe $8,000 for utilities, postage, promo, staff pay etc. If some criminal reg like Hazel Grafton or Peter Morgan then "sold" a leatherbound piece of shit to someone for $4,000, making themselves $600 commission in the process, it would make no difference to the Gross Income for the week, but the book income would jump by $4,000, and the CGI would shrink by $4,000. In this case, the org would suddenly have only $6,500 for stuff that week. It was heartbreaking. My complaints were met with "Books make booms," and the fact that one leatherbound copy of Battlefield Earth bought as an investment (hah!) didn't exactly fit into the "Books are Dissemination" theory didn't enter into their thoughts at all.

Paul

Oh God D'OF,
Its all comming back to me know. I remember all of this now, the commissions , rich booksellers & reg's etc. Yes its an insane system the finance one, and it will never change.........There is not many staff who can honestly admit there is a bullshit system in place with-in the CoS......:omg:
 
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