The Courage of Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder

[byte301]

Chick Corea is a great example. Yes, he is a great musician, and he still seems to be able to create, but his music doesn't really "communicate" to me. Barbara Thompson's music, although she doesn't play my fav. style does communicate to me. Carla Bley/Steve Swallow do communicate to me. Larry Carlton. Again not my style, but he communicates to me. I could write a list a mile long, of musicians that are "not my style" but have something interesting to "say" and are worth to listen to every once in a while. Chick Corea has definitely deteriorated in that department. He's still a great musician, but he doesn't have much left to say. To me, that is.

I guess that's why I don't enjoy jazz. I don't understand it. It doesn't communicate anything to me. It's a foreign language. I do enjoy some things from most music genres and I have a feeling that if I explored jazz more I would probably find some of it enjoyable.

I agree with you about particular artists. I can dislike a group but still be drawn to a particular musician in that group.

Wouldn't life be empty without music?

Panda, I'll take your word for it. lol I know that he's won buckets of awards. His music puts me to sleep but I am clueless about jazz, so there ya go.

 

[MrNobody]

I guess that's why I don't enjoy jazz. I don't understand it. It doesn't communicate anything to me. It's a foreign language. I do enjoy some things from most music genres and I have a feeling that if I explored jazz more I would probably find some of it enjoyable.

I agree with you about particular artists. I can dislike a group but still be drawn to a particular musician in that group.

Wouldn't life be empty without music?

Panda, I'll take your word for it. lol I know that he's won buckets of awards. His music puts me to sleep but I am clueless about jazz, so there ya go.

Uh, how can I explain this? You don't need no "clues" about jazz, you just need to listen. First of all, jazz is just a collective label, a general tern to describe many different styles of music. There's Hot Jazz, Cool Jazz, Lounge, Dixie, New Orleans, Fusion, just to name a few. Behind each of these sub-labels is a definition and a history. Each of them is an interesting subject for research and all that academic stuff, if you're into that. I'm not. I just listen and play.

Just one example: Barbara Thompson. I know I do have some recordings of her, but I haven't listened to them in 20 years or so. I would watch her live anytime, though.

That's my point. The communication that happens live on stage among the musicians and between musicians and audience is fascinating.

A short story: We were playing for a quite snobistic bunch of people, the ones who think "we are the elite".

"Electricity? What's Electricity? You mean you NEED that? I've been listening to CLASSICAL music for my whole life , and have been teaching it for quite some time, and NOBODY there ever needed electricity. We all use REAL instruments. Who in his right mind would need amplification?" That's what the "nice" lady said. You can't imagine how amused I was 1 hour later, when I saw her smile and shake her booty to my groove.

Yeah, well, dunno if I got my point across, but it really just boils down to this: You don't need a clue, you just need to listen and watch. The most pleasure I get from my live acts is when I see a bunch of 3 year olds dancing in font of the stage.

 

[byte301]

Uh, how can I explain this? You don't need no "clues" about jazz, you just need to listen. First of all, jazz is just a collective label, a general tern to describe many different styles of music. There's Hot Jazz, Cool Jazz, Lounge, Dixie, New Orleans, Fusion, just to name a few. Behind each of these sub-labels is a definition and a history. Each of them is an interesting subject for research and all that academic stuff, if you're into that. I'm not. I just listen and play.

Just one example: Barbara Thompson. I know I do have some recordings of her, but I haven't listened to them in 20 years or so. I would watch her live anytime, though.

That's my point. The communication that happens live on stage among the musicians and between musicians and audience is fascinating.

A short story: We were playing for a quite snobistic bunch of people, the ones who think "we are the elite".

"Electricity? What's Electricity? You mean you NEED that? I've been listening to CLASSICAL music for my whole life , and have been teaching it for quite some time, and NOBODY there ever needed electricity. We all use REAL instruments. Who in his right mind would need amplification?" That's what the "nice" lady said. You can't imagine how amused I was 1 hour later, when I saw her smile and shake her booty to my groove.

Yeah, well, dunno if I got my point across, but it really just boils down to this: You don't need a clue, you just need to listen and watch. The most pleasure I get from my live acts is when I see a bunch of 3 year olds dancing in font of the stage.

Oh okay. I DO understand. I admit I did connect with Stanley Clarke but I think it was more of a connection to him as a person then his music.

Seeing someone live is the ultimate. But then again I have watched some videos on youtube of artists that I would never have had the chance to see in person and I believe that I was moved as much as if they were live. Pavorati for one.

Thanks for the definition. I think I am going to have to educate myself some more about jazz. I think I'll start with the Dixie and New Orleans. I'll let you know how it goes!

That was a good story. I've often wondered who get more benefit from the music...the audience or the musicians? Maybe it's a toss up.

 

[MrNobody]

Oh okay. I DO understand. I admit I did connect with Stanley Clarke but I think it was more of a connection to him as a person then his music.

Seeing someone live is the ultimate. But then again I have watched some videos on youtube of artists that I would never have had the chance to see in person and I believe that I was moved as much as if they were live. Pavorati for one.

Thanks for the definition. I think I am going to have to educate myself some more about jazz. I think I'll start with the Dixie and New Orleans. I'll let you know how it goes!

That was a good story. I've often wondered who get more benefit from the music...the audience or the musicians? Maybe it's a toss up.

Yup, educating yourself about jazz surely can't hurt, but besides the academic viewpoint: Once you realize "Oopsie, the saxophone player just made a joke, LULZ", once you can hear such things in music, you're really almost there. And it would have cost you just a small entry fee, if any. Truly a much more affordable "path to enlightenment", in my opinion. Also, Dixie and New Orleans are a good starting point, I'd say, and yes, I'd definitely like to know how it goes for you.

 

[byte301]

Yup, educating yourself about jazz surely can't hurt, but besides the academic viewpoint: Once you realize "Oopsie, the saxophone player just made a joke, LULZ", once you can hear such things in music, you're really almost there. And it would have cost you just a small entry fee, if any. Truly a much more affordable "path to enlightenment", in my opinion. Also, Dixie and New Orleans are a good starting point, I'd say, and yes, I'd definitely like to know how it goes for you.

I've been watching some videos on youtube, inbetween screwing with Flashy. I had a HUGE misunderstanding about what jazz entails. I was totally ignorant. I thought jazz was fusion jazz or freestyle! I didn't realize it was ragtime, swing, etc.

Okay, so I'll probably never have a developed enough ear to appreciate fusion or free but I am now on an adventure. I am discovering what music I've always loved that was jazz all along! Boy do I feel dumb.

 

[Zinjifar]

try Pharaoh Sanders' 'Karma' with 'The Creator Has A Master Plan' (a riff off of Coltrane's 'a love supreme')

Especially if you can get the version with leon thomas doing vocals.

The big problem with a lot of 'free jazz' is melody, but, that's got it in spades.

Zinj

 

[byte301]

try Pharaoh Sanders' 'Karma' with 'The Creator Has A Master Plan' (a riff off of Coltrane's 'a love supreme')

Especially if you can get the version with leon thomas doing vocals.

The big problem with a lot of 'free jazz' is melody, but, that's got it in spades.

Zinj

Ok, thanks Zinj! Yeah, the no melody thing is what I couldn't grasp. It was all just cacaphony to me. I probably shouldn't admit that. lol

 

[MrNobody]

I've been watching some videos on youtube, inbetween screwing with Flashy. I had a HUGE misunderstanding about what jazz entails. I was totally ignorant. I thought jazz was fusion jazz or freestyle! I didn't realize it was ragtime, swing, etc.

Okay, so I'll probably never have a developed enough ear to appreciate fusion or free but I am now on an adventure. I am discovering what music I've always loved that was jazz all along! Boy do I feel dumb.

LOL, Really, no need to feel dumb, because that's just normal.

Someone: "Get off of me with your jazz, I can't stand that crap. Here, this is the kind of music I like."

"Yah, umm well... that IS jazz."

"???"

I didn't count how often I've had this kind of conversation, but it was quite a couple of times. Trust me, once you're no longer scared of the word jazz, you'll probably recognize that there's a considerable number of jazz songs that you've known and liked for years.

For communication in music: Listen to this song from Carla Bley ans her husband Steve Swallow. Usually I hate Carla for her overly complicated arrangements and her disharmonic (for my ears) compositions that just make my head explode, but this song is just full of humor, fun, sexyness and love. Ignore the "lyrics" for a moment, and listen to the instruments. Can you hear it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alSUKjh33lw


Basically it's just a simple blues song, but to me, Blues is just another subclass of jazz as well. (The purists will probably stone for this )

Oh, and here's just a fun song for good measure. You can't hear what singin', swingin' Kristin is singing, but you can imagine what she sounds like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s18qyPLcYw

Havin' fun yet?

 

[byte301]

LOL, Really, no need to feel dumb, because that's just normal.

Someone: "Get off of me with your jazz, I can't stand that crap. Here, this is the kind of music I like."

"Yah, umm well... that IS jazz."

"???"

I didn't count how often I've had this kind of conversation, but it was quite a couple of times. Trust me, once you're no longer scared of the word jazz, you'll probably recognize that there's a considerable number of jazz songs that you've known and liked for years.

For communication in music: Listen to this song from Carla Bley ans her husband Steve Swallow. Usually I hate Carla for her overly complicated arrangements and her disharmonic (for my ears) compositions that just make my head explode, but this song is just full of humor, fun, sexyness and love. Ignore the "lyrics" for a moment, and listen to the instruments. Can you hear it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alSUKjh33lw


Basically it's just a simple blues song, but to me, Blues is just another subclass of jazz as well. (The purists will probably stone for this )

Oh, and here's just a fun song for good measure. You can't hear what singin', swingin' Kristin is singing, but you can imagine what she sounds like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s18qyPLcYw

Havin' fun yet?

Of course I am. Those were both great, MN. I DID hear it in the first one. And the second one brought back memories. My mom loved that song.
I am so glad I got all this cleared up before I kicked it! lol My brother, who was a HUGE fan of every type of music you can name, would be so proud. Okay, I'm off to find some more jazz.

 

[Kutta]

IMO exposure brings appreciation. I always loved Jazz rythms, but some instrumental-only jazz bored me. But this last year my grandson has been studying for a BA in musical arts, specializing in sax. He lives with me, so i have listened to all kinds of jazz all year, from the moment he gets up till he goes to bed, except when he's at college. All the greats, plus a whole range of other stuff I wouldn't know how to categorize. Now I'm loving it all, and really digging the instrumentals. i especially love jazz piano and sax, but the guitar speaks to me too, especially base guitar.

 

[Smilla]

IMO exposure brings appreciation. I always loved Jazz rythms, but some instrumental-only jazz bored me. But this last year my grandson has been studying for a BA in musical arts, specializing in sax. He lives with me, so i have listened to all kinds of jazz all year, from the moment he gets up till he goes to bed, except when he's at college. All the greats, plus a whole range of other stuff I wouldn't know how to categorize. Now I'm loving it all, and really digging the instrumentals. i especially love jazz piano and sax, but the guitar speaks to me too, especially base guitar.

You might like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSybXLofaDM

 

[Zinjifar]

Love Mahavishnu Orchestra; especially 'Birds of Fire' and 'Ever Mounting Flame'

No vocals, and the melodies are typically jazzy broken up, but, they're there. And Jerry Goodman and Mcglaughlin doing duet on guitar and fiddle knocks my socks off.

Zinj

 

[Smilla]

Love Mahavishnu Orchestra; especially 'Birds of Fire' and 'Ever Mounting Flame'

No vocals, and the melodies are typically jazzy broken up, but, they're there. And Jerry Goodman and Mcglaughlin doing duet on guitar and fiddle knocks my socks off.

Zinj

Yes they are all big favourites of mine.

 

[Kutta]

Wow Smilla. That is some guitar playing. Very soul full. What kind of jazz would you call that?

 

[Smilla]

Wow Smilla. That is some guitar playing. Very soul full. What kind of jazz would you call that?

Glad you like it. Dunno what category it comes under. Maybe fusion?

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

I happened to watch Quentin Tarantino's "Death Proof" last night for the first time, I thought it was a very entertaining movie, I highly recommend it. At the end movie I could not help to admire the courage of Stunt-man Mike ... "in a Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder kind of way". Stunt-man Mike's deep felt sincerity and genuine remorse at the end of the movie reminded me so much of Marty Rathbun.

 

[MrNobody]

Love that song, Smilla. Thanks.
To anyone who might think about asking me: I don't care about categories, I just listen and play whatever and whenever I feel like doing so.

 

[byte301]

I happened to watch Quentin Tarantino's "Death Proof" last night for the first time, I thought it was a very entertaining movie, I highly recommend it. At the end movie I could not help to admire the courage of Stunt-man Mike ... "in a Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder kind of way". Stunt-man Mike's deep felt sincerity and genuine remorse at the end of the movie reminded me so much of Marty Rathbun.

Haven't seen the movie but I am guessing you had your tongue firmly pressed against your cheek when you posted that. Am I correct?

 

[Rosy]

Dear Fail, thanks for your posting.

You are even HIGHER than the "Moving On Up A Little Higher" goons. I couldn't have said it even better. This "Scientology independence" group is simply independence from DM and no longer kissing his ass. But if you don't now back them up 100% and look upon Marty as a "saviour" to the religion, then you are a "DM agent" or "out-ethics" (I'm in this category).

I'm speaking from my own experience here so it may not be true for everyone. This group excludes off of Marthy's opinion about who is a spy, a DM agent or out ethics - this is arbitrary, opinionated and, whether you think Scientology is a pile of shit or not, is contrary to policy - it's "Marty's policy".

Yeah, that really speaks for human rights and freedom of speech and respect for those who think differently or don't support you 100%.

I know Marty speaking out is a major blow and I support him for speaking out and believe it makes a difference. ONLY because he was in a position to receive a hell of a lot more data than most of us and worked with "the man" (DM) close enough to know more about how he ticks than most guys.

But sorry, this doesn't make him "higher" than or give him any right to throw his arrogant Int base mentality on the rest of us "small" guys.

I'm new here - I had to register and post when I saw "Fail"s post as I am now finding someone on the same page as I am.

So I hope I am welcomed.

 

[He-man]

Dear Fail, thanks for your posting.

You are even HIGHER than the "Moving On Up A Little Higher" goons. I couldn't have said it even better. This "Scientology independence" group is simply independence from DM and no longer kissing his ass. But if you don't now back them up 100% and look upon Marty as a "saviour" to the religion, then you are a "DM agent" or "out-ethics" (I'm in this category).

I'm speaking from my own experience here so it may not be true for everyone. This group excludes off of Marthy's opinion about who is a spy, a DM agent or out ethics - this is arbitrary, opinionated and, whether you think Scientology is a pile of shit or not, is contrary to policy - it's "Marty's policy".

Yeah, that really speaks for human rights and freedom of speech and respect for those who think differently or don't support you 100%.

I know Marty speaking out is a major blow and I support him for speaking out and believe it makes a difference. ONLY because he was in a position to receive a hell of a lot more data than most of us and worked with "the man" (DM) close enough to know more about how he ticks than most guys.

But sorry, this doesn't make him "higher" than or give him any right to throw his arrogant Int base mentality on the rest of us "small" guys.

I'm new here - I had to register and post when I saw "Fail"s post as I am now finding someone on the same page as I am.

So I hope I am welcomed.

You are very much welcome Rosy! Welcome to the most awesome board on the planet.