The Edge interview with high level scientology defector (Bill Franks)

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous Reports from Newspapers, Blogs, and ' started by JustMe, Jun 7, 2012.

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  1. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    As I see it, Hubbard DOES state things as they are, very often, but unknown to the suckers who follow him and his system, he OFTEN USES THOSE AGAINST THE PERSON TO MANIPULATE AND TRAP THEM.

    As an example, and there are MANY, Hubbard correctly and very well discusses "fixed ideas". He explains how they are bad, how they interfere with learning, and how a person with them believes that he or she already knows it all. Hubbard well explains that it is good to spot and get rid of "fixed ideas". But then, Hubbard slyly and adeptly gets his followers to accept and adopt a whole new set of fixed ideas! :yes:

    I think sometimes Hubbard just slipped, and really said what he thought, without any concern for the big manipulation aspect. When he said, "it's all just hypnosis" to Hana, he may have let his guard down (which he rarely did), and he was stating the truth as he viewed it. But, maybe not.

    Now, there ARE various angles to that statement.

    First, from a viewpoint of Hinduism and "maya", it is ALL an "illusion", and in a certain sense, we are each hypnotised by the "fixed reality", and especially by our OWN thoughts and considerations. From that view, it IS "all hypnosis".

    Second, modern visualization and affirmation techniques, that actually derive from eastern practices and ideas, are simply, a form of intentional self-hypnosis. The acceptance of ANY set of considerations and agreements results in the perception and experience of a specific "version" of "reality". Many New Age practices are based on THAT idea (even if they don't know it or state it in exactly those terms).

    So, again Hubbard stated something that DOES contain "truth", but in the end, he used it AGAINST YOU, and he did not convey the data in a way that empowered you. As I see it, he knew exactly what he was doing - and it was NOT so much to help you (other than as a pretense) as it was to "help Ron".

    I first read about fixed ideas through my involvement with Scientology. I liked the data, but didn't know WHERE Hubbard had borrowed the idea from. Hubbard packaged a large assortment of different and unrelated ideas as "Scientology". At first I thought that I liked "Scientology", because I appreciated the data on "fixed ideas". It wasn't "Scientology" that I liked, but this ONE isolated idea, an idea that Hubbard INCORRECTLY LABELED AS BEING "Scientology". The notion of Scientology as an "integrated body of knowledge" is a PR gimmick. "Scientology" is largely a "mock-up" that Hubbard foisted on the world. And, it exists for any person to the degree that you think that it does.
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2012
  2. Magoo

    Magoo Gold Meritorious Patron


    Thank GOD and the Net I (and so many others) are out of that
    mental institution disguised (and not very well) as "religion".

    WTFU to anyone still "in". Come on, man, PLEASE ***look*** at both sides, and ask yourself: Why can't C of $ say that?

    Is this HONESTLY The group you thought you joined way back when?

    This is IT? :confused2:

    :no: Freedom does NOT reign there. Suppression does.

    Sorry to tell ya, but that is a fact.


    PS: The Very FACT That IF you listen to any of us, someone will be there to "handle you" proves my point.
  3. Mick Wenlock

    Mick Wenlock Admin Emeritus (retired)

    Ooh thank you - money enroute in brown envelope!!
  4. Mick Wenlock

    Mick Wenlock Admin Emeritus (retired)

    Well this is a man who was all excited about getting his war record and medals - even when he had not earned the ones he was claiming,
  5. Mick Wenlock

    Mick Wenlock Admin Emeritus (retired)

    Re: Bill Franks says the Cof$ murdered a British Member of Parliament.

    I actually don't think it is credible at all.

    In 1979 to have been involved in something like this (and I agree with you Ax, Neave was most definitely assassinated by independent Irish republican dissidents) the GO would have had to have been certifiable. Given the ongoing war against the provos, the draconian steps that British counter intelligence was taking, including infiltrating the provos, false flag recruitment, and a lot of stuff we are never likely to hear about , leaving some document around with the words "murder" and "MP" in it strikes me as ludicrous. Even if it were someone merely speculating, it would be incredibly dangerous.

    Does that mean BF is telling porkies? probably not given the fact that he was probably wading through paperwork by the yard it may have been speculation about what someone else was doing. Which would make more sense.

    anyway - FWIW
  6. Moosejewels

    Moosejewels Patron Meritorious

    Very interesting interview.
    Thanks for posting.

  7. Anony

    Anony New Member

    I was pretty intrigued by the MP killing as well..

    I haven't had time to read the entire thread but I can find three MPs dying of accidents during this timeframe:

    Sir Dingle Foot: 1905-1978 (choked on chicken bone in sandwich)
    Mr Thomas Henry Swain: 1911-1979 (road accident)
    Mr Thomas McMillan: 1919-1980 (fall from bus)

    I guess murdering someone by making them choke on a chicken bone or fall from a bus would be kind of difficult ( but you never know with scientology! ). :/

    But what about Thomas Henry Swain?
  8. whoisxenu

    whoisxenu Patron with Honors

    I suspect the MP he's referring to is --
    [h=1]Airey Neave[/h]Neave was assassinated in 1979 in a car-bomb attack at the House of Commons

    The IRA claimed credit. Could be Franks just put assassinated and MP and 1979 together and assumed it was a Scientology operation on the sly.
  9. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron

    On the other Thread recently started re: Bill's interview I Posted the following...Note the PS at the end in Bold.

    I don't know how I managed to miss this clip and thread the first time around. :confused2:

    When I was in the "Inner Circle" I got to be Buds with some of the GO B1 Super Spooks. One of them once said to me that the GO was "capable" of having someone "eliminated".

  10. Anony

    Anony New Member

    Oops, sorry I didn't notice the other thread!

    anyway, I found something interesting regarding the Airey Neave case.
    This is from the telegraph in 2009 (

    "Government files from 1979 regarded as too sensitive to release under the “30 year rule” were kept secret. "

    "withheld were papers on the assassination in March 1979 of Airey Neave, the Conservative MP and adviser to Lady Thatcher.
    Mr Neave was killed when a bomb exploded under his car as it left the Palace of Westminster car park. The attack was claimed by the Irish National Liberation Army. "

    I really can't find any reason why Scientology would want him assassinated though..
  11. sallydannce

    sallydannce Gold Meritorious Patron

  12. Xenu's Boyfriend

    Xenu's Boyfriend Silver Meritorious Patron

    Shit, I would have been in big trouble. Not only have I done all of these, I've enjoyed them - a few at the same time! :happydance:
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2014
  13. Xenu's Boyfriend

    Xenu's Boyfriend Silver Meritorious Patron

    Re: Bill Franks says the Cof$ murdered a British Member of Parliament.

    I agree, it seems so obvious that this is the direction he was going in his paranoid schizophrenia, murder seems the obvious conclusion. When you think about "Fair Game" and the use of the word destroyed, the text in Keeping Scientology Working and the stuff about "We'd rather have you dead than incapable" (I think that's the quote, someone feel free to correct me). The could be translated to say, "We'd rather have you do dead then out of the church". The violence in Auditing Process "R2-45"....

    From Wikipedia:

    However, critics of Scientology have pointed out that Hubbard also used it in apparently non-humorous contexts. On March 6, 1968, Hubbard issued an internal memo titled "RACKET EXPOSED," in which he denounced twelve people (Peter Goodwin, Jim Stathis, Peter Knight, Mrs. Knight, Nora Goodwin, Ron Frost, Margaret Frost, Nina Collingwood, Freda Gaiman, Frank Manley, Mary Ann Taylor, and George Wateridge) as "Enemies of mankind, the planet and all life," and ordered that "Any Sea Org member contacting any of them is to use Auditing Process R2-45."[7][8] Former Scientologist Bent Corydon wrote that in late 1967 at Saint Hill, he personally received a copy of an order naming four former Scientologists as enemies and "fair game" and ordering any Sea Org member who encountered them to use R2-45.
  14. Mick Wenlock

    Mick Wenlock Admin Emeritus (retired)

    it was the INLA that claimed credit - not the PIRA.

    I actually posted this before I finished it - I was getting off to bed and one of the cats had ensconced himself in my computer chair - what's a person to do?

    I know Hubbard talked tough - but he was not tough. He was a bully. He particularly liked to bully women. He was not a man of courage not even street courage - at every trial he cut and ran and he allowed his wife to go jail on his behalf and then disowned her.

    I can tell you that Irish republican extremists of all stripes are not stupid enough to get into bed with someone as unreliable as Hubbard.

    Another thing - there is no evidence that I know of that has the IRA performing assassinations in some sort of quid pro quo arrangement. For somebody to assert that would mean that they do not have much of an idea of the mindset of members of the PIRA or the rest of the Republican extremist movement.

    Personally I think it was just one more example of Hubbard telling porkies.
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2014
  15. FoTi

    FoTi Crusader

    I wonder if there are any bodies buried at St Hill or Gold.....or perhaps at any of the vaults located here and there around the U.S. :unsure:

    This is very interesting that the O/W tech was used to introvert, control, manipulate, trap and drive a person crazy. I never looked at it this way. I always thought it was supposed to help a being to recover from things that they had done that they felt guilty relieve the burden of guilt and free the being from past transgressions. No wonder it was so confusing sometimes. What a mind fuck! :grouch:
  16. Victoria

    Victoria Patron Meritorious

    Mike Rinder calls bullshit on the dead MP story in the comments section on his blog today.
    And also wonders why David Mayo hasn't verified the ARCX's cause blows memo.

    I have no way of knowing one way or another.
  17. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    David Mayo is under a court-ordered gag order. A real strict, tight one.

    He can't talk tek or even about his history with Scn. Mike Rinder should be well aware of that. David has explained it to us here at ESMB and probably elsewhere.
  18. Cat's Squirrel

    Cat's Squirrel Gold Meritorious Patron

    Agreed, I think it's very unlikely to be true.

    If LRH had come to face with a real live PIRA / INLA hardman I think he'd have run a mile, and there is next to no chance that they would have taken him seriously as someone to deal with.

    Don't forget, those people dealt with Americans all the time (because a lot of their funding came from the US) and by the very nature of what they did, their antenna concerning whom they could trust and whom they couldn't would be very highly developed (because if they got it wrong they'd be facing a long jail sentence). So the odds against them dealing with LRH or anyone else from Scientology and negotiating on a hit at all, never mind of a British member of parliament, would surely be long ones.
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2015
  19. Lone Star

    Lone Star Crusader

    Last edited: Nov 8, 2015
  20. Churchill

    Churchill Gold Meritorious Patron


    I can't believe that I didn't know that Mayo is under a gag order.

    Gag orders and non-disclosure agreements are a key tool that Scientology (communication is the universal solvent) uses to stifle speech and impose censorship of dissenting opinions and facts surrounding criminal behavior.

    Debbie Cook, Nazanin Boniadi, David Mayo, Katie Holmes, to name just a few.

    There are many, many others.