The Master The Movie

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by olska, Feb 28, 2013.

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  1. BardoThodol

    BardoThodol Silver Meritorious Patron

    Oddly, I noticed the same thing in health food stores. Broken down people who will pay more to fix some problem.

    Of course, some people in health food stores are healthy and just looking to stay that way, and learn to do it without having to pay large sums to correct failings.

    However, I can't imagine a person being spiritually healthy and still attached to the CofS. That's just inconceivable to me, a complete contradiction.
     
  2. Stephanie

    Stephanie Patron with Honors

    That is what my friend said to me as we were leaving, although I don't disagree with her. Broken people can be found anywhere, but in Scientology, there are loads of them, moreso than I've seen outside of a Homeless shelter.

    As an aside, my friend, once they learned her * title and position, received such awesome service - that was irritating, as I believe each patron should get the same level of service, and not have it depend on their position.
     
  3. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    This has been added to Golden Quotes from ESMB! :clap:
     
  4. Danger Mouse

    Danger Mouse Patron with Honors

    Since I saw the movie, every time I read or listen to anything by L. Ron Hubbard, I imagine him as Lancaster Dodd.
     
  5. Operating DB

    Operating DB Truman Show Dropout

    I just got watching the DVD and the extras. I really liked this movie. Joaquin Phoenix did an awesome acting job as Freddie Quell, a very disturbing character indeed. He sort of reminded me of Marty Rathbun or perhaps DM with alcohol problems and being a suggestive true believer and ready and willing to beat up any dissenters.

    Funny that some of you posters lol'd during the movie. I was more like OMG-ing at the obvious references to dianetics, scientology, TR's specifically bullbaiting, Upper Indocs, Processing, repetitive technique, implants, trillion years ago, past lives, etc.

    The gratuitous nudity grossed me out. I wished they would have toned that part down.
     
  6. Boson Wog Stark

    Boson Wog Stark Patron Meritorious

    I was expecting more drama -- a building of tension in a story line, to a climax. I was expecting to feel strongly about the Lancaster character, and the influence he would have on a person's life or the lives of people around him. In other words, I was expecting to care about the characters. I didn't feel any of that really. Some of the house gatherings reminded me of Tupperware parties or prayer meetings.

    Before Freddie met Lancaster, I thought that part of his life was fascinating and real. Then it was like he was moving through a dream space. It didn't seem real.

    I did like certain scenes though, like when the guy at the party challenged Lancaster. Hubbard was a larger than life character and Lancaster seemed too cerebral or dull. The film reminded me of Boogie Nights, in the way it wandered from scene to scene, but I thought Boogie Nights was funnier and the characters were better too.

    The public who saw THE MASTER, I think got a good idea, enough to be wary of Scientology and perhaps interested enough to read about Hubbard's real life. The problem was, the movie wasn't good enough to attract the volumes of people that could benefit from seeing it and get the word out to others.

    Of course, one of the things that kept striking me as unrealistic about it, in relation to Scientology and cults in general, is that a cult leader would not take a person like Freddie under his wing -- not for long anyway. It would be too much of a potential threat to his authority, and effectiveness of method.
     
  7. Lurker5

    Lurker5 Gold Meritorious Patron

    SPOILER ALERT: I am going to mention a lot of stuff - take heed, those who have not seen the film, and don't want to know anything going in. And I am going to be EXPLICIT - GRAPHIC descriptions of some of the films R rated material.

    I watched the dvd and the extras, deleted scenes, this last weekend. I never was a scno, just a 'public' dabbler for about a month or so, and I left/blew absolutely horrified at my experience. It gave me the creeps. I know lots about scno/co$ because I have been reading the (ex and critical) books about it ever since, but my knowledge is not insider info - it is outsider critic info, and the personal inside stuff I know of is from the more recent insider books (thanks Nancy, Jeff, Amy, Jenna and Luke - etc).

    My take on the movie - Yeah I can see how someone who knows nothing about scno/co$ would react with a WTF ! That it was nominated for an Academy Award tells me there are people in high places who KNOW. Yea ! And the deleted scenes REALLY pin it to scno/co$. I am sorry they were deleted too (as someone else has already said). And the nudity was a bit much, and I wondered, what is that for?

    Well, the deleted scenes kind of explain a bit better the nudity - the demented obssession with women/sex - of probably both main characters. All that poisonous 'liquor' imbibing, hallucinations, brain destruction - all a bit perverted - and sexual in nature . . . LRH really had an unhealthy obssession with all things sex and female.

    And the deleteds also explain better the bathroom hand job Dodd/lrh's wife gives him. Before seeing the deleted scenes, I thought she was meaning Freddie Quell, referring to some kind of homosexual leanings she sensed in the demented and drunken and more uninhibited Dodd/lrh. Then when the deleteds show Dodd/lrh drunkenly dancing with the women, and the women coming on to him, and with his wife being preggers, and that meaning no sex 'cause it will cause engram - Well, then I get it better, that wifey was keeping her man serviced (sorry to be so graphic - it is a very graphic film, that way) so he would not cheat on her. And her 'permission' to do whatever he wanted, was not permission at all.. It was a ploy, manipulation. Interesting insight into the wife. :hmm: What a ball buster. As big a con, if not bigger, as he. And she had him by the balls, at least during this period of their lives. (And as we all know, he gets her back, big time, later on - how was prison, as punishment - huh? Sheesh, the man was consumed / obssessed with resentments and revenge- a mind rapist).

    It was an artsy film. That to me means multi symbolisms - and I wondered if Freddie was not also a part of Dodd/lrh himself, and the split into 2 characters demonstrates the battle between 2 sides of his personality, both sociopathic, but one a completely out of control loser, the other a very suave, completely in control conman. Thus the affinity between them. Dodd/lrh realized that CONTROL was the answer - controlling not only himself (and his Freddie part), but more importantly, controlling others.

    Anyone just go WTF? LOL. I mean to me it seemed that Dodd/lrh's interest in Freddie was that he saw himself under different circumstances, if life had been rougher on him, given him less starting out, less class and education. Dodd identified with Freddie. And liked what he did, and wanted to have some of it, the excitement, the depravity. Both are sociopaths, IMHO, and each saw that in the other - each thought they could use the other, live vicariously, through the other. One just more intelligent, but drawn to the wild and violent ways of the 'lesser'. They envied each other. Like looking in the mirror, seeing the other side of one's own self, and envying it.

    It kind of surprised me that Dodd never figured out where he knew Freddie - or maybe he did. Did Freddie know? I think he did. They had that fight in the department store when Freddie was making his living as a photographer. I think Freddie knew all along, and that Dodd/lrh did not know at all. So much for perfect memory recall. LOL. Freddie followed along and became his henchman, not so much because he was conned by Dodd/lrh, but because he saw what Dodd/lrh had, and he wanted it too. He did not have to hear the son say Dodd was making it all up as he went along. Freddie knew that - and wanted to learn how to do that too. He wanted some of what Dodd had, and visa versa.

    Freddie 'blows' when Dodd/lrh give him a run on the motorcycle - The cage door was opened and the caged baby bird sings - and FLIES AWAY. Dodd cons him into coming to England later on, and threatens him - in an underhanded way - that stuff about being a part of it for a billion years, but if Freddie leaves he will be Dodd/lrh's greatest enemy forever and Dodd/lrh will give no quarter. Sly smile.

    And, in the end, when Freddie is gone off on his own, he is using what he learned, to control and manipulate his bar hook-up . . . The student imitating the Master.

    And that stuff about serving a Master in this life, one way or another . . .

    Also, I think this film gave Dodd/lrh a much more persuasive and charming personality than I have ever imagined lrh having. I never gave him that much credit, so to speak. I guess if he could fool and con so many he would have had to have been that personable . . . But it was a disonant clang for me. It gave me another 'take' on lrh . . . I never felt he was anything other than a gross, creepy slime-ball, SP conman. This film gave him more 'depth' for me.

    It is all very 'heady' artsy stuff . . .

    And I am still thinking about it . . .
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2013
  8. olska

    olska Silver Meritorious Patron

    @ Lurker5

    I like your analysis of this film! Gave me more understanding of it. I still haven't seen the deleted scenes -- my Netflix DVD will be here soon.

    One of my favorite tidbits is when the Laura Dern character, reading "Book Two" points out to Dodd that he has "changed the platform" by changing "recall" to "imagine," and she's wanting to start a discussion, to know the theory and reasoning behind that change, and he just cuts her off with his little mini hissy fit ... like as though he hadn't, until then, realized that he'd made such a huge change! OOPS! and he didn't want to have to explain himself.

    I also thought Peggy (Mary Sue) was a real ball buster, and I think she probably was in real life, as well. Of course, some folks remember her fondly and sentimentally now, but I got the idea, not just from the film, that SHE controlled Hubbard. The question is, why would she want to? who knows! She had to have her own "issues" I think...

    I liked the scene in the jail, when Freddie goes off and wrecks his cell, while Dodd just stands there, all quiet and contemplative and in control, and then tells Freddie that the reason he is behaving that way is because of an implant from billions (or was it trillions?) of years ago. You say these two characters represent two sides of the same personality, and now that you mention it... you may be right! and that jail cell scene shows that, graphically.

    The motorcycle scene was just too funny! First I thought Freddie was going to run himself into a wall; then he just takes off and blows! and there is perhaps a subtle reference there to one of the Int Base escapees (I forget who it was right now) getting away on a motorcycle. Then, later, when Freddie is sitting in a movie theatre and gets a telephone call, that also cracked me up -- that was looooong before cell phones, so who gets a phone call while they are in a movie theatre??? to me that was a reference to how the cult ALWAYS knows where you are, you can never really escape their mail, their phone calls. Too sick, too funny!

    Can't wait to see it again! :thumbsup:
     
  9. Operating DB

    Operating DB Truman Show Dropout

    Geez you guys! After reading your insights I'm going to have to watch the movie again! I have bad discriminatory hearing and mostly use closed captioning because often I can't make out what the actors are saying. Without closed captioning I'd get lost real quickly in a movie. But the downside of that is I tend to miss out on a lot of the subtle meanings. I think it goes back to never missing a word from using the oppressive study tech.

    But that is funny now that you mention the phone call in the theater thing and the cult always knowing where you are and never leaving you alone. And the blowing the scene on the motorcycle. By the way, that was Marc Headley, aka, Blown For Good, who blew from the Int base on his motorcycle.
     
  10. Lurker5

    Lurker5 Gold Meritorious Patron

    Olska, very good back-up for my take on it. Thanks. Did ya notice, Dodd/lrh begins to lose his temper (the Laura Dern scene you mentioned) when his alter ego Freddie begins to get a bit of control over his . . . :biggrin:

    And OP'DB, have you tried those little ear buds, and use them in conjunction with closed caption? That is how I do foreign films in original language. But I too have to watch the films more than once to 'get' all the 'good' stuff. :coolwink:
     
  11. Lurker5

    Lurker5 Gold Meritorious Patron

    Oh and another thing, Freddie making his 'booze' - every time he was 'making it up as he went along', using whatever was around at the time. :wink2:
     
  12. Osiris

    Osiris Patron with Honors

    you definitely have to see the film more than once.....

    So much in it..... :yes:
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2013
  13. Lurker5

    Lurker5 Gold Meritorious Patron

  14. tetloj

    tetloj Silver Meritorious Patron

    Wonder if we'll ever see a director's cut. I've waited this long and think it would be great to see it with deleted scenes intact.
     
  15. PirateAndBum

    PirateAndBum Gold Meritorious Patron

    I just watched "The Master" again last weekend. I saw it back in 2012 when it came out, but seeing it again was quite a different experience. Paul Thomas Anderson is a brilliant film maker. The performances he got from Phoenix and Hoffman was amazing. The deep multifaceted nuances going on between the two men really struck me. 4 thumbs up (yeah squirrels have 4 thumbs)
     

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